McClendon on the Aram trade

[Jake]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/29/bc.bbn.pirates.mcclendon.ap/index.html

 

"My fate was probably sealed when we traded away the franchise player," McClendon said. "Even today, that's tough to swallow because he's such a good player. That was awfully tough. That really set us back because of what he was starting to accomplish at a power position, and we haven't been able to replace that."

[goonys evil twin]

It's easy to say that know. But people were sick of Ramirez back then.

[Jake]

It's easy to say that know. But people were sick of Ramirez back then.

Who was sick of him back then?

[goonys evil twin]

It's easy to say that know. But people were sick of Ramirez back then.

Who was sick of him back then?

 

I have a couple friends who are Pirates fans, who admit even now they were sick of him, although one of their fathers pretends he knew Ramirez would be great all along. I read about the team trying to deal him for a long time, and never heard or read anything about people who would miss him. And while it's not a great source for a poll, the general consensus on the message boards was they would not be upset to see him go (although they didn't necessarily like what they got).

[Jake]

FWIW, I never heard any serious rumors until a day or two before the trade.

 

It was a pure payroll move. The original intent was to trade Benson, but then he got hurt a week or so before the trade deadline, so that was the end of trading him. The Ramirez deal was thrown together very quickly.

 

I read something (I think Paul Meyers of the PG wrote it) that the Pirates were over a debt/payroll ratio mandated by the league. I read this more than once, but I'm not sure I believe it or not.

 

Yeah, his defence was a little suspect, as was his work ethic. But, I don't think I know a single person who ever suggested trading him.

 

2003 was the year we could have had a winning record. A few things just didn't go our way. Then the sell off... And that was the end of it.

[goonys evil twin]

FWIW, I never heard any serious rumors until a day or two before the trade.

 

It was a pure payroll move. The original intent was to trade Benson, but then he got hurt a week or so before the trade deadline, so that was the end of trading him. The Ramirez deal was thrown together very quickly.

 

I read something (I think Paul Meyers of the PG wrote it) that the Pirates were over a debt/payroll ratio mandated by the league. I read this more than once, but I'm not sure I believe it or not.

 

Yeah, his defence was a little suspect, as was his work ethic. But, I don't think I know a single person who ever suggested trading him.

 

2003 was the year we could have had a winning record. A few things just didn't go our way. Then the sell off... And that was the end of it.

 

I'm sure you remember it differently than I, but I do know some fans really hated him in 2002 (both my friends, and people at the games who booed and jeered him). And his uninspired beginning to 2003 didn't change that. People were blasting him for being fat, out of shape and lackadaisical. They seemed let down after getting their hopes up following his 2001 breakout, and contract. I just think it's a little weak for McClendon to look back and say his fate was sealed when Ramirez was traded. That team wouldn't have been winning a ton of games with or without him.

[Jake]

Keep in mind, we had Giles (in his prime) /Ramirez hitting 3-4 that year.

 

Our starting pitching was a bit weak, and our bullpen fell apart.

 

People were blasting him for being fat, out of shape and lackadaisical. They seemed let down after getting their hopes up following his 2001 breakout,

This is very true. But, he's a guy who could hit .300 AND hit 30 HRs. We knew what we had.

 

I just think it's a little weak for McClendon to look back and say his fate was sealed when Ramirez was traded. That team wouldn't have been winning a ton of games with or without him.

I don't think he saw a world championship, but at least a winning record. Remember, we signed Chris Stynes to play 3b the next year.

[wolf stansson]

People were blasting him for being fat, out of shape and lackadaisical. They seemed let down after getting their hopes up following his 2001 breakout,

This is very true. But, he's a guy who could hit .300 AND hit 30 HRs. We knew what we had.

Yeah, you knew what you had.

2001 - .300/.350/.536 34hr, 112rbi.

 

I'm sure people blasted him for his work ethic but most sane fans would want him to turn it around as opposed to giving him away.

[SouthSideRyan]

The people blasting him in '02 were idiots. He was playing on 1 ankle because McClendon was too stupid to DL or rest him.

[MajikRat]

I remember ARam as kind of our fallback position that year. If I remember correctly most people were clamboring for the Cubs to pry Mike Lowell (shudder) away from the Marlins. Instead I think Lowell signed a contract extension and we "settled" for Aramis. Funny how the fates have changed.

[1908]

It's easy to say that know. But people were sick of Ramirez back then.

Who was sick of him back then?

There are plenty of Cubs fans that get on Aramis now because they think he's lazy. It baffles me, but it makes it easier to understand how Pirate fans could've felt that way.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

FWIW, I never heard any serious rumors until a day or two before the trade.

It was a pure payroll move. The original intent was to trade Benson, but then he got hurt a week or so before the trade deadline, so that was the end of trading him. The Ramirez deal was thrown together very quickly.

 

I read something (I think Paul Meyers of the PG wrote it) that the Pirates were over a debt/payroll ratio mandated by the league. I read this more than once, but I'm not sure I believe it or not.

 

Yeah, his defence was a little suspect, as was his work ethic. But, I don't think I know a single person who ever suggested trading him.

 

2003 was the year we could have had a winning record. A few things just didn't go our way. Then the sell off... And that was the end of it.

 

Exactly. I'll never get the "Hendry fleeced the Pirates talk" in regards to ARam. They didn't have a choice and few teams could take on that contract short notice and at that position. The Cubs finally got lucky.

 

I feel kind of bad for Pirates fans. Some truly outstanding talent has come up through their system. If they'd of had the payroll to lock up young talent to long term extensions (see the Cleveland Indians recent history), they'd be a threat to win the division.

[rocket]

It's easy to say that know. But people were sick of Ramirez back then.

Who was sick of him back then?

There are plenty of Cubs fans that get on Aramis now because they think he's lazy. It baffles me, but it makes it easier to understand how Pirate fans could've felt that way.

 

I remember some posters, while they didn't outright say the trade was horrible, they didn't think it was all that significant. Aramis was an oft-injured, lazy player coming off a HORRIBLE year. While everyone agrees now it was a phenomenal trade, hindsight is 20/20, and the trade wasn't that amazing on the surface at the time.

[1908]

It's easy to say that know. But people were sick of Ramirez back then.

Who was sick of him back then?

There are plenty of Cubs fans that get on Aramis now because they think he's lazy. It baffles me, but it makes it easier to understand how Pirate fans could've felt that way.

 

I remember some posters, while they didn't outright say the trade was horrible, they didn't think it was all that significant. Aramis was an oft-injured, lazy player coming off a HORRIBLE year. While everyone agrees now it was a phenomenal trade, hindsight is 20/20, and the trade wasn't that amazing on the surface at the time.

I was a big fan of the trade when it happened because players who are MLB regulars at 20 usually develop into stars at some point. It went from a bad trade for the Pirates at the time to a horrific trade in hindsight.

[Jake]

No, it was prettyu horrific at the time too. I still scratch my head. Well, I do understand why. I just wonder how we got into that position.

[Jake]

It's easy to say that know. But people were sick of Ramirez back then.

Who was sick of him back then?

There are plenty of Cubs fans that get on Aramis now because they think he's lazy. It baffles me, but it makes it easier to understand how Pirate fans could've felt that way.

 

I remember some posters, while they didn't outright say the trade was horrible, they didn't think it was all that significant. Aramis was an oft-injured, lazy player coming off a HORRIBLE year. While everyone agrees now it was a phenomenal trade, hindsight is 20/20, and the trade wasn't that amazing on the surface at the time.

We knew what we were giving away. How old was he at the trade? 23 was it? (I forget his age and I'm too tired to look it up right now).

 

Littlefield knew exactly what he ws doing. I Don't think he liked it, but he knew what he was doing.

 

Hopefully, things are going to be better. There were some cost overruns for the new stadium, and trading Aram was one of the ways of paying them down. Supposedly, they're paid now, and we can stop fire sales. Not that we have much to firesale these days. BUt, we have a lot of young talent. If you throw enough of 'em out on the field, some of 'em will have to stick.

[KatJ]

No, it was prettyu horrific at the time too. I still scratch my head. Well, I do understand why. I just wonder how we got into that position.

 

If I remember correctly, I suggested that I sure would like your young 3B (Aramis), and you said NO WAY. I was as surprised as you were when Hendry got him. (But I bet you weren't as happy as I was! :-) ) The troika of Buccos was exactly what the 2003 offense needed.

 

I don't think I have ever seen a Cub team before 2004 with solid corner IF. (I really don't think Cey counted - we got him after his prime as a Dodger.)

[KatJ]

BUt, we have a lot of young talent. If you throw enough of 'em out on the field, some of 'em will have to stick.

 

That sounds like the inverse of what we call "lightning in a bottle" over here - "let's overpay for FA past their prime - it will get us over the top!"