Baker on Cedeno in suntimes

[badger1679666666]

Ronny Cedeno will be the starting shortstop on Opening Day. Baker, in fact, has been very supportive of both him and Murton, talking to both constantly. If you read the whole, quote, as it appeared in the Daily Herald (shameless plug), you'll see that Baker ended it by saying something to the effect that Ronny "will do it."

 

Thanks Bruce. Not the first time posters have ignored the whole story, and only focused on the part that fits their agenda.

 

What adgenda is that?

 

It is about time for this stuff to stop. Only time will tell what Dusty will do.

 

The reason stuff like this pops up is because the Neifi Chicken Little posts pop up in a ridiculous number of threads. Until people let the bloated, rotting horse rest, others will attempt to temper the conversation.

 

So when you say it's about time for this stuff to stop, I hope you also include the ungodly number of "well it looks like Neifi is the starting X position guy again" comments as well.

 

THANK YOU.

 

Chicken Little - that's the word I couldn't remember. This post encompasses everything I wanted to say, but wasn't able to in this thread.

[adamb0719]

I have been a little busy, and out of the Cubs loop lately, so I have what may be a ridiculous question. Has there been any word on who will be the starting SS come opening day?

 

I don't think there's been any sort of indication that it will be anyone other than Ronny.

 

Thanks. That is what I thought, but every now and again I read or hear something about Neifi and am unsure if that is all just speculation, or there is really a reason for it. Like I said, I am out of the loop right now. :oops:

[frostwyrm]

Ronny Cedeno will be the starting shortstop on Opening Day. Baker, in fact, has been very supportive of both him and Murton, talking to both constantly. If you read the whole, quote, as it appeared in the Daily Herald (shameless plug), you'll see that Baker ended it by saying something to the effect that Ronny "will do it."

 

Thanks Bruce. Not the first time posters have ignored the whole story, and only focused on the part that fits their agenda.

 

What adgenda is that?

 

It is about time for this stuff to stop. Only time will tell what Dusty will do.

 

 

I don't know if it's an "agenda" but I'd qualify it as a propensity to misrepresent stories and quotes to fit one's viewpoint.

 

Did you think to click the link I included in the initial post? If you did you would have seen I included the entire Baker quote from the Suntimes article. Obviously the Herald article contained a more complete quote that included missing nuance, but I didn't see that until later.

[badger1679666666]

Ronny Cedeno will be the starting shortstop on Opening Day. Baker, in fact, has been very supportive of both him and Murton, talking to both constantly. If you read the whole, quote, as it appeared in the Daily Herald (shameless plug), you'll see that Baker ended it by saying something to the effect that Ronny "will do it."

 

Thanks Bruce. Not the first time posters have ignored the whole story, and only focused on the part that fits their agenda.

 

What adgenda is that?

 

It is about time for this stuff to stop. Only time will tell what Dusty will do.

 

 

I don't know if it's an "agenda" but I'd qualify it as a propensity to misrepresent stories and quotes to fit one's viewpoint.

 

Did you think to click the link I included in the initial post? If you did you would have seen I included the entire Baker quote from the Suntimes article. Obviously the Herald article contained a more complete quote that included missing nuance, but I didn't see that until later.

 

To be honest I wasn't implying anyone specifically (when talking about misrepresenting quotes) I was commenting on a tired "Neifi's taking over and will bat 1-9 because he saved us and Dusty loves him" attitude that arises ANY time an article or quote like that in this thread is mentioned.

[CubinNY]

 

So when you say it's about time for this stuff to stop, I hope you also include the ungodly number of "well it looks like Neifi is the starting X position guy again" comments as well.

 

Present one example. Just one.

 

See the problem is that you and some others have a problem with people criticizing the Cubs. There is nothing chicken little about it.

 

People questioned why Prior was being held out of games. You and some others made statements to the effect that those people were being overly cirticial. What happens next, low and behold Prior comes up with a shoulder strain. But we are supposed to believe that nothing was wrong with him before that.

 

Dusty has a track record of looking over poor play by "proven veterns" yet keys on poor play by minor leaguers.

 

Time will tell what Dusty will do. Untill then it is better to come up with your own argument why you belive what you do rather than point out the faults of people who post here.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

When it comes to Dusty not playing young players, I don't see how you could call people paranoid that are worried about Neifi playing. Have we forgotten the Dubois situation already? How many people thought Hill was a lock in '03?

 

On a slightly different note, this also continues Dusty's hypocrisy in the media. Pick a young player, Patterson, Murton, Dubois, Cedeno, etc., Dusty has found something wrong with them that he's divulged to the media. When that happens, some people call it "telling the truth". On the other hand, the Neifis, Macii, Lenny Harrises of the world will never hear an ill word from Dusty. When that happens, some people say "well, do you want him to say that X sucks? This is why Dusty is a player's manager". It can't be both ways.

[badger1679666666]

 

So when you say it's about time for this stuff to stop, I hope you also include the ungodly number of "well it looks like Neifi is the starting X position guy again" comments as well.

 

Present one example. Just one.

 

See the problem is that you and some others have a problem with people criticizing the Cubs. There is nothing chicken little about it.

 

.

 

The second post of this thread.

 

And that second part is just plain BS anyway you slice it. Some of us have a problem with criticizing the Cubs where criticism is undue. Others of us here criticize everything about the cubs regardless of whether there is a basis for it or not.

 

I will criticize Baker til the sun goes down, but I'm not going to invent crap to criticize him about, or twist his words to criticize him. There is plenty he has sucked at that I don't need to invent stuff to do so.

Edited March 21, 2006 by badger

[badger1679666666]

When it comes to Dusty not playing young players, I don't see how you could call people paranoid that are worried about Neifi playing. Have we forgotten the Dubois situation already? How many people thought Hill was a lock in '03?

 

On a slightly different note, this also continues Dusty's hypocrisy in the media. Pick a young player, Patterson, Murton, Dubois, Cedeno, etc., Dusty has found something wrong with them that he's divulged to the media. When that happens, some people call it "telling the truth". On the other hand, the Neifis, Macii, Lenny Harrises of the world will never hear an ill word from Dusty. When that happens, some people say "well, do you want him to say that X sucks? This is why Dusty is a player's manager". It can't be both ways.

 

Dusty's quote was that Cedeno was pressing, swinging at pitches out of the zone and being too aggressive. In fact he said Ronny was getting Ronny out, which I read as he has faith in Ronny and it's not that he's not good enough, it's that he's getting himself out. I view that as a compliment and support that he can change things around because it's all in his control - he doesn't suck.

[CubinNY]

 

So when you say it's about time for this stuff to stop, I hope you also include the ungodly number of "well it looks like Neifi is the starting X position guy again" comments as well.

 

Present one example. Just one.

 

See the problem is that you and some others have a problem with people criticizing the Cubs. There is nothing chicken little about it.

 

People questioned why Prior was being held out of games. You and some others made statements to the effect that those people were being overly cirticial. What happens next, low and behold Prior comes up with a shoulder strain. But we are supposed to believe that nothing was wrong with him before that.

 

Dusty has a track record of looking over poor play by "proven veterns" yet keys on poor play by minor leaguers.

 

Time will tell what Dusty will do. Untill then it is better to come up with your own argument why you belive what you do rather than point out the faults of people who post here.

 

The second post of this thread.

 

Not even close.

[badger1679666666]

 

So when you say it's about time for this stuff to stop, I hope you also include the ungodly number of "well it looks like Neifi is the starting X position guy again" comments as well.

 

Present one example. Just one.

 

See the problem is that you and some others have a problem with people criticizing the Cubs. There is nothing chicken little about it.

 

People questioned why Prior was being held out of games. You and some others made statements to the effect that those people were being overly cirticial. What happens next, low and behold Prior comes up with a shoulder strain. But we are supposed to believe that nothing was wrong with him before that.

 

Dusty has a track record of looking over poor play by "proven veterns" yet keys on poor play by minor leaguers.

 

Time will tell what Dusty will do. Untill then it is better to come up with your own argument why you belive what you do rather than point out the faults of people who post here.

 

The second post of this thread.

 

Not even close.

 

You're completely wrong. the guy said Dusty is laying the foundation for neifi.

 

That's Neifi Chicken Little. Confirmed.

[BigbadB]

Seriously, I'm not going to get into this with you. Suffice to say, if Hendry or Baker say anything, it's twisted negatively by certain people and if people they like say something, it's twisted positively. That is ALL I am going to say on this.

 

That's my OPINION on the postcontent with respect to commentary on Hendry, but more so Baker.

 

There was nothing in the quote even in the Kiley article to suggest that Cedeno was getting demoted, but it didn't take long for the sky to start falling, thankfully someone who everyone on this board respects put that story straight (Bruce)

 

I like how you posted the word OPINION in big letters. Because people here are allowed to post their OPINIONS, and if their OPINION does not agree with yours, their OPINION is apparently incorrect, or should I say a false misrepresentation?

 

According to your interpretation or your OPINION, there was nothing in the quote to suggest that Cedeno was getting demoted. But, is it actually a fact or is it simply your opinion?

 

Everyone has an opinion. You are welcome to disagree with someone's opinion, but you are not welcome to insult people who have differing opinions, which is basically what you have done.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

In order to be a "Chicken Little", don't your fears have to be unjustified? Do those calling people Chicken Littles have the slightest fear of Dusty playing Neifi if Cedeno struggles for a period of time? Edited March 21, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger

[badger1679666666]

Seriously, I'm not going to get into this with you. Suffice to say, if Hendry or Baker say anything, it's twisted negatively by certain people and if people they like say something, it's twisted positively. That is ALL I am going to say on this.

 

That's my OPINION on the postcontent with respect to commentary on Hendry, but more so Baker.

 

There was nothing in the quote even in the Kiley article to suggest that Cedeno was getting demoted, but it didn't take long for the sky to start falling, thankfully someone who everyone on this board respects put that story straight (Bruce)

 

I like how you posted the word OPINION in big letters. Because people here are allowed to post their OPINIONS, and if their OPINION does not agree with yours, their OPINION is apparently incorrect, or should I say a false misrepresentation?

 

According to your interpretation or your OPINION, there was nothing in the quote to suggest that Cedeno was getting demoted. But, is it actually a fact or is it simply your opinion?

 

Everyone has an opinion. You are welcome to disagree with someone's opinion, but you are not welcome to insult people who have differing opinions, which is basically what you have done.

 

SHOW ME AN INSULT OF A PERSON.

[frostwyrm]

Dusty actually does sound supportive in the Miles article, so jeers to Kiley for poor writing. Having said that, I still think it's goofy for Dusty to even mention Cedeno's overaggressiveness or poor pitch selection when Dusty has a history of overlooking those traits in veterans.

[TheDude]

When it comes to Dusty not playing young players, I don't see how you could call people paranoid that are worried about Neifi playing. Have we forgotten the Dubois situation already? How many people thought Hill was a lock in '03?

 

On a slightly different note, this also continues Dusty's hypocrisy in the media. Pick a young player, Patterson, Murton, Dubois, Cedeno, etc., Dusty has found something wrong with them that he's divulged to the media. When that happens, some people call it "telling the truth". On the other hand, the Neifis, Macii, Lenny Harrises of the world will never hear an ill word from Dusty. When that happens, some people say "well, do you want him to say that X sucks? This is why Dusty is a player's manager". It can't be both ways.

 

I think the Cedeno situation is different than the Dubois or Hill situation. With Cedeno, Dusty has stated repeatedly throughout the offseason that Cedeno is the starter at SS.

 

I don't have quotes offhand from previous years, but my memory of those other situations is that Dusty always said Dubois/Hill would be competing/in-the-mix for the starting job.

 

I don't think there is a direct comparison here.

[badger1679666666]

When it comes to Dusty not playing young players, I don't see how you could call people paranoid that are worried about Neifi playing. Have we forgotten the Dubois situation already? How many people thought Hill was a lock in '03?

 

On a slightly different note, this also continues Dusty's hypocrisy in the media. Pick a young player, Patterson, Murton, Dubois, Cedeno, etc., Dusty has found something wrong with them that he's divulged to the media. When that happens, some people call it "telling the truth". On the other hand, the Neifis, Macii, Lenny Harrises of the world will never hear an ill word from Dusty. When that happens, some people say "well, do you want him to say that X sucks? This is why Dusty is a player's manager". It can't be both ways.

 

I think the Cedeno situation is different than the Dubois or Hill situation. With Cedeno, Dusty has stated repeatedly throughout the offseason that Cedeno is the starter at SS.

 

I don't have quotes offhand from previous years, but my memory of those other situations is that Dusty always said Dubois/Hill would be competing/in-the-mix for the starting job.

 

I don't think there is a direct comparison here.

 

Dusty never said it was Dubois' job.

[TheDude]

In order to be a "Chicken Little", don't your fears have to be unjustified? Do those calling people Chicken Littles have the slightest fear of Dusty playing Neifi if Cedeno struggles for a period of time.

 

The difference is in the last clause you noted. The overwhelming majority of posts I would point out suggest that Dusty has a pre-conceived plan to oust Cedeno/Walker/Hairston with Neifi - not an entirely performance based decision.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

In order to be a "Chicken Little", don't your fears have to be unjustified? Do those calling people Chicken Littles have the slightest fear of Dusty playing Neifi if Cedeno struggles for a period of time.

 

The difference is in the last clause you noted. The overwhelming majority of posts I would point out suggest that Dusty has a pre-conceived plan to oust Cedeno/Walker/Hairston with Neifi - not an entirely performance based decision.

 

Not a pre conceived plan, but just his nature. Like I said before with the difference in his quotes for youngsters in veterans, he points these things out to justify his lunacy. Performance based could mean he waits until a player struggles in season(Dubois), or it could mean poor spring performance loses the job(Hill). I understand that people think that Cedeno is safe, but given Dusty's past, I can't understand anyone thinking people are crazy for worrying about Neifi taking a good deal of time from Cedeno.

[BigbadB]

SHOW ME AN INSULT OF A PERSON.

 

What's with the shouting all of a sudden?

 

I don't know if it's an "agenda" but I'd qualify it as a propensity to misrepresent stories and quotes to fit one's viewpoint.

 

That's an insult.

[badger1679666666]

SHOW ME AN INSULT OF A PERSON.

 

What's with the shouting all of a sudden?

 

I don't know if it's an "agenda" but I'd qualify it as a propensity to misrepresent stories and quotes to fit one's viewpoint.

 

That's an insult.

 

Sorry bout the shouting. I'm trying to quit smoking and this thread is aggravating my nerves.

 

And whom specifically am I insulting? Or am I attacking a viewpoint? The viewpoint that Chicken Littles everything Neifi does? I don't recall ever mentioning a poster by name or by quote, therefore I can't be attacking a poster.

[Chocolate Milk]

SHOW ME AN INSULT OF A PERSON.

 

What's with the shouting all of a sudden?

 

I don't know if it's an "agenda" but I'd qualify it as a propensity to misrepresent stories and quotes to fit one's viewpoint.

 

That's an insult.

 

It is?

[badger1679666666]

In order to be a "Chicken Little", don't your fears have to be unjustified? Do those calling people Chicken Littles have the slightest fear of Dusty playing Neifi if Cedeno struggles for a period of time.

 

The difference is in the last clause you noted. The overwhelming majority of posts I would point out suggest that Dusty has a pre-conceived plan to oust Cedeno/Walker/Hairston with Neifi - not an entirely performance based decision.

 

Not a pre conceived plan, but just his nature. Like I said before with the difference in his quotes for youngsters in veterans, he points these things out to justify his lunacy. Performance based could mean he waits until a player struggles in season(Dubois), or it could mean poor spring performance loses the job(Hill). I understand that people think that Cedeno is safe, but given Dusty's past, I can't understand anyone thinking people are crazy for worrying about Neifi taking a good deal of time from Cedeno.

 

Well one specific argument that just chaffes my skin is when people note that Murton was very praising of the way that Dusty played him last year - slowly (and you can be assured he will get almost all the starts this year) and people would say

 

"He has to say that or Dusty will bench him for speaking out". That is recoculous. So now a player can't praise Dusty without the same people claiming that Murton's lying and he just said that to protect his ass because Dusty doesn't like young players? Has it ever occured that Murton gained a lot of confidence dominating the pitching that Dusty exposed him to and that's helped this year? Not all that dusty does is bad.

 

Some of these types of arguments get very tired.

 

I feel dirty for having to defend that man as I want him out of this city. But I still have the ability to have perspective that not everything he does is bad.

 

 

SHOW ME AN INSULT OF A PERSON.

 

What's with the shouting all of a sudden?

 

I don't know if it's an "agenda" but I'd qualify it as a propensity to misrepresent stories and quotes to fit one's viewpoint.

 

That's an insult.

 

It is?

 

 

No it isn't, but when it want's to be labeled an insult by a Mod, I'm not gonna argue too much.

[BigbadB]

SHOW ME AN INSULT OF A PERSON.

 

What's with the shouting all of a sudden?

 

I don't know if it's an "agenda" but I'd qualify it as a propensity to misrepresent stories and quotes to fit one's viewpoint.

 

That's an insult.

 

Sorry bout the shouting. I'm trying to quit smoking and this thread is aggravating my nerves.

 

And whom specifically am I insulting? Or am I attacking a viewpoint? The viewpoint that Chicken Littles everything Neifi does? I don't recall ever mentioning a poster by name or by quote, therefore I can't be attacking a poster.

 

It wasn't an attack of an individual poster, but rather a group of posters.

 

Good luck with the no smoking thing. I attempted to quit not that long ago and my wife went and bought me a pack just to shut me up. I was starting to unravel a bit in that long 9th inning last night also. Petco doesn't allow any smoking anywhere on the stadium grounds.

 

And how is that working? People are smoking everywhere now instead of in designated areas. Great plan! Not me, of course. I respected their rules last night.

Edited March 21, 2006 by BigbadB

[brinoch]

Obviously, this is a touchy subject -- and I can understand that. I don't like Neifi Perez any more than anyone else. He's terrible.

 

Now, there's a simple misunderstanding here: Kiley's quote in the SunTimes is different than that of Bruce's in the Daily Herald. Frostwyrm posted the quote from Kiley's article, and Bruce offered clarification. If one reads Kiley's quote, one could easily see -- given Baker's past -- the groundwork being laid for Perez to get a bunch of AB's at Cedeno's expense. However, we have Bruce here. Please take any post prior's to Bruce's clarification in the proper context.

 

Bruce has better access and insight than any of us can possibly have, and he's indicated that Baker is very supportive of Cedeno and Murton. We are lucky to have him around -- thanks again, Bruce, for the info you post here.

 

Before Kiley gets slammed, I want everyone to relax a bit, take a deep breath, and remember that sometimes due to space concerns, or content concerns, editors make changes to stories. Now, that said, this is an illustrative example of how a quote can be construed to mean two very different things.

 

Sun Times blurb on Cedeno

RETIRING TYPE: Baker said it's up to shortstop Ronny Cedeno to improve his pitch selection. During a spotty spring at the plate, Cedeno's basic problem has been that he is getting himself out.

 

"They're not getting Ronny out,'' Baker said. "Ronny is getting Ronny out. The whole thing is pitch selection. He's been over-aggressive swinging at low-percentage pitches.''

 

Daily Herald blurb on Cedeno

Hit smart: Ronny Cedeno has begun to hit the ball better after a slow start. Dusty Baker said there has been one key.

 

“The main thing about Ronny right now is pitch selection,” Baker said. “They’re not getting Ronny out. Ronny’s getting Ronny out. He’s probably being overaggressive, swinging at low-percentage pitches. You see how many pitches he swings at that are low and away vs. waiting for them to come in the zone.”

 

Baker then cited an example.

 

“The other day, he was ahead 2-0 and he took a fat pitch right there 2-0 and then he swung at a pitch 2-1 that was out of the zone because he took the pitch 2-0,” Baker said. “It should have been the other way around. He knows what to do. It’s just a matter of you get a few hits and start feeling better about yourself. He’ll do it.”

Edited March 21, 2006 by brinoch

[Garwilly]

SHOW ME AN INSULT OF A PERSON.

 

What's with the shouting all of a sudden?

 

I don't know if it's an "agenda" but I'd qualify it as a propensity to misrepresent stories and quotes to fit one's viewpoint.

 

That's an insult.

 

Sorry bout the shouting. I'm trying to quit smoking and this thread is aggravating my nerves.

 

And whom specifically am I insulting? Or am I attacking a viewpoint? The viewpoint that Chicken Littles everything Neifi does? I don't recall ever mentioning a poster by name or by quote, therefore I can't be attacking a poster.

 

It wasn't an attack of an individual poster, but rather a group of posters.

 

Good luck with the no smoking thing. I attempted to quit not that long ago and my wife went and bought me a pack just to shut me up.

 

OT: Do the laser to the ear thing for $300. I know several people who have had amazing success wuth it.