San Antonio Marlins?

[Catman61]

There already is an imbalance. STL gets 6 vs KC while the Cubs face the White Sox

 

I agree there already exists some imbalance such as the example above. However, the last 2 years (2004 and 2005) the Cards & Royals only had 1 3 game series (both in KC) and this year they have 6 again.

 

I also agree that the "rivalry" series can set up some mismatches BUT just as you pointed out that interleague isn't going away neither are the rivalry series.

 

So I will close with, there is no perfect solution (or at least one that would likely get implemented) but there is plenty of food for thought and some interesting possibilities.

[goonys evil twin]

So I will close with, there is no perfect solution (or at least one that would likely get implemented) but there is plenty of food for thought and some interesting possibilities.

 

No doubt there is no perfect solution. I just believe the 4, 5, 6 team division thing is stupid and unnecessary, and I think the same about the one whole month dedicated to interleague play. There is always going to be some sort of imbalance, but over 162 games, it doesn't mean a lot. And if you are going to have some imbalance, it's probably best to have it so last year's best face each other (improves odds of turnover - keeps more fans interested over time - even if it's only slight), as opposed to have the worst face the best (improves odds of perpetuating the same place in the standings - lowers the number of fans whose team has a chance over time - even if only slightly).

[Yeti]

MLB in SA would be a disaster.

 

An unsupported Chicken-litle argument isn't going to get far on these boards.

 

Personally, I think San Antonio is a fine location, and the more spots that step up create buzz and competition for the other prime locations, the greater likelyhood a team gets into a better situation long-term.

call it chicken little all you want, i spent the last 5 years in SA, and baseball doesnt have much of a folowing there(few astros fans and fewer ranger fans.) SA is very poor and getting more so with every fresh illegal that arrives. they support the spurs but they are an entrenched institution. SA already has a minor league team(the missions(a mariners affiliate)) the only nights there is a crowd at the ballpark are the thursday nights(its cheap ticket, beer and hot dog night) on thursdays a family of 5 can go to the park, eat and dad can get drunk for about $35. the city already supports one sports venue that dosnt bring in much revenue in the alamo dome and its not likely that the citizens would vote to support with tax dollars another stadium.

 

let me ask you Dude, how much time have you spent in SA lately? how much time have you spent dealing with local politics there? i spent 4 years involved in grass roots activism(mostly on environmental issues) and know how the political machine moves there. they are very enthusastic on the front, but there is little momentum behind the initial showing

 

SA would have a better chance of supporting football than baseball and SA is a decidedly Cowboys town

Edited March 3, 2006 by Yeti

[wiggum742]

cal it chicken little al you want, i spent the last 5 years in SA, and baseball doesnt have much of a folowing there(few astros fans and fewer ranger fans.) SA is very poor and getting more so with every fresh illegal that arrives. they support the spurs but they are an entrenched institution. SA already has a minor league team(the missions(a mariners affiliate)) the only nights there is a crowd at the ballpark are the thursday nights(its cheap ticket, beer and hot dog night) on thursdays a family of 5 can go to the park eat and dad can get drunk for about $35. the city already supports one sports venue that dosnt bring in much revenue in the alamo dome and its not likely that the citizens would vote to support with tax dollars another stadium

 

first of all, lets lay off the "illegals" as a reason san antonio shouldn't have a team.

And you can't judge a city's interest based on a minor league team. Minor league teams don't have the draw because they don't have the talent or the possiblilty of reward for a fan. Would any chicago residents really care if the kane county cougars or the windy city storm won anything? no. But the white sox won and a few people seemed to care. In '03 i'd never seen so many people decked out in cubs gear.

 

My point here is, a potential market can't be counted out on the basis that they don't support baseball. They don't support it because they don't have it, it's like the chicken and the egg thing, only we know which came first.

[goonys evil twin]

first of all, lets lay off the "illegals" as a reason san antonio shouldn't have a team.

 

I don't think he said they shouldn't have a team because of illegals.

 

What I read was that it's a pretty poor town, and that a lot of the poor are illegals. This could put a dent in the theory that they could support a team based on the size of their population. Sheer size isn't all that important if the population is very poor with little chance to improve economically.

 

I don't know much about SA, so I'm not making a judgement on its abilities to support a team. I do however find it interesting to read about others impressions of the place.

[Yeti]

cal it chicken little al you want, i spent the last 5 years in SA, and baseball doesnt have much of a folowing there(few astros fans and fewer ranger fans.) SA is very poor and getting more so with every fresh illegal that arrives. they support the spurs but they are an entrenched institution. SA already has a minor league team(the missions(a mariners affiliate)) the only nights there is a crowd at the ballpark are the thursday nights(its cheap ticket, beer and hot dog night) on thursdays a family of 5 can go to the park eat and dad can get drunk for about $35. the city already supports one sports venue that dosnt bring in much revenue in the alamo dome and its not likely that the citizens would vote to support with tax dollars another stadium

 

first of all, lets lay off the "illegals" as a reason san antonio shouldn't have a team.

i'm not trying to use them as a reason that SA shouldnt have a team, what i'm saying is that it is a very poor town and getting more so. this is one of the reasons i dont see baseball doing well there, the "illegal" situation was mentioned as a reason that the town is getting more poor, not as a reason they shouldnt get a team...geez your trying to make me sound like a bigoted ass, its not a knock on mexicans, its just stating an economic fact of the region.

[UK1679666180]

You have 20 intradivision games per 4 opponents. 80 games

15 Interleague games, they're at 95 games.

 

You have 10 teams left within the League and 67 games.

 

7 of those teams play 11 games and 3 of those teams play 6 games.

On any given day, who is playing whom?

 

Unless you are committing to interleague play throughout the season, there's always an offday. I still say we should expand by two more teams, ditch interleague, ditch the wildcard and go to four divisions of four teams. I guess I'm not completely opposed to interleague play, but I would ditch the "rivalry" series as it makes for an uneven playing field. The scheduling becomes cake and you actually have to win something to make the playoffs.

 

Before anyone starts with the "watered-down pitching" talk, let me issue a preemptive strike -- there's more talent in the game per team than there ever has been before.

 

You have (4) 3 game series and (2) 4 game series vs. each divisional opponent, that'll get you to 20 each.

 

Interleague can be kept as 3 games series at 5 different points (MLB will keep the "rival" series at 6 of those 15 games).

 

For Intraleague and non-division opponents, you have (1) 4 game series and (1) 3 game series vs. 7 of the league opponents and (2) 3 game series vs. the other 3 division opponents.

[Tim]

You have 20 intradivision games per 4 opponents. 80 games

15 Interleague games, they're at 95 games.

 

You have 10 teams left within the League and 67 games.

 

7 of those teams play 11 games and 3 of those teams play 6 games.

On any given day, who is playing whom?

 

Unless you are committing to interleague play throughout the season, there's always an offday. I still say we should expand by two more teams, ditch interleague, ditch the wildcard and go to four divisions of four teams. I guess I'm not completely opposed to interleague play, but I would ditch the "rivalry" series as it makes for an uneven playing field. The scheduling becomes cake and you actually have to win something to make the playoffs.

 

Before anyone starts with the "watered-down pitching" talk, let me issue a preemptive strike -- there's more talent in the game per team than there ever has been before.

 

You have (4) 3 game series and (2) 4 game series vs. each divisional opponent, that'll get you to 20 each.

 

Interleague can be kept as 3 games series at 5 different points (MLB will keep the "rival" series at 6 of those 15 games).

 

For Intraleague and non-division opponents, you have (1) 4 game series and (1) 3 game series vs. 7 of the league opponents and (2) 3 game series vs. the other 3 division opponents.

I understand how to comprise for each team, the question related to how to schedule each individual day (which has been covered by goony since I typed up the question). I don't think MLB would be willing to spead out interleague so that there is always an interleague series happening through every week of the year. I think they prefer the media blitz and attention it gets when it all happens at once.

 

and unless there's at least one interleague series going on at all times during the season, 15 and 15 simply doesn't work.

[LoneStarCubFan]

One reason you won't see an NFL team in San Antonio is a big reason you won't see an MLB team there either. There isn't enough major corporate support for a team.

 

The Spurs suck up pretty much all the corporate money in town and they only play 41 or so home nights a year. There isn't enough business money to support an 81-night-a-year baseball team.

 

You can't count on tapping into the Austin market either. While the two cities are fairly close to each other the money in Austin is on the north side of city. People aren't going to fight the crappy Austin traffic on a regular basis to drive to SA for a baseball game on a regular basis.

[EricG]

San Antonio has a large military population. Houston or Dallas isn't that far from SA. It would make more sense to put a Rangers/Astros minor league affiliate in SA than a Mariners .

[LoneStarCubFan]

San Antonio has a large military population. Houston or Dallas isn't that far from SA. It would make more sense to put a Rangers/Astros minor league affiliate in SA than a Mariners .

 

There are already Astros affiliates in suburban Austin (PCL- Round Rock) and Corpus Christi (Texas League). Nolan Ryan's son runs them both I believe.

 

Texas' AAA (PCL) affiliate is in OKC and it's AA affiliate (TL) is in suburban Dallas (Frisco).

 

There isn't an A-ball league in that part of the country.

[UBlink]

I think the Austin support would be primarily media-related. I think a team in SA would get a TV package in Austin.

[UK1679666180]

and unless there's at least one interleague series going on at all times during the season, 15 and 15 simply doesn't work.

 

It can work, if they all run parallel.

 

Rivalry Games: (6 games)

Cubs vs. Sox

NYM vs. NYY

STL vs. KC

Wash. vs. Balt

Houston vs. Tex

Phil vs. Balt

Cincy vs. Clev

ATL vs. TB

Tor vs. Pitt

Mil vs. Minn

LA vs. Ana

Oak vs SF

Sea. vs Col

SA vs SD

AZ vs Det

 

(not all are true rivals but it works out)

 

Interleague: (9 games)

 

1st series:

Cubs vs. Clev

Stl vs Det

Mil vs KC

Cincy vs Minn

Hou vs. CWS

 

ATL vs NYY

Phi vs Tor

Pit vs Balt

Wash vs. TB

NYM vs Bost

 

Col vs. SA

SD vs Ana

LA vs Oak

SF vs Sea

AZ vs TX

 

2nd series:

Cubs vs Det

STL vs Clev

Mil vs CWS

Cincy vs KC

Hou vs Minn

 

ATL vs Tor

Phi vs NYY

Pit vs TB

Wash vs Bos

NYM vs Balt

 

Col vs Ana

SD vs Texas

LA vs Sea

SF vs SA

AZ vs Oak

 

3rd and final series of Interleague:

Cubs vs Minn

STL vs CWS

Mil vs Clev

Cincy vs Det

Hou vs KC

 

ATL vs Balt

Phil vs TB

Pit vs Bos

Wash vs NYY

NYM vs Tor

 

Col vs Texas

SD vs Oak

LA vs SA

SF vs Ana

AZ vs Sea

[goonys evil twin]

I don't think MLB would be willing to spead out interleague so that there is always an interleague series happening through every week of the year. I think they prefer the media blitz and attention it gets when it all happens at once.

 

I think the media blitz is completely dead. Interleague play as it stands does not receive any pub. If you want to publicize it, one series at a time will allow for more media interest. Assume for this year, the season opened with Houston/White Sox. There could be a lot of hype for such a series, then, down the line, you still have your Cubs/White Sox, Mets/Yanks etc. Run together those series tend to drown each other out (with Mets/Yanks taking most of the pub). If you run them in successive weeks sometime in the middle of the season, however, you'll get a longer media blitz.

 

There's a big difference between "Hey, the Cubs, Sox, Mets, Yanks, Dodgers, Angels ......... are playing today", and "hey, it's Cub/Sox this week", " now it's Mets/Yanks" etc etc.

 

Every now and then throughout the season there will be an interesting interleague series going on (not to mention the interesting divisional matchups) for MLB to promote.

 

I don't doubt that MLB would hesitate on such a plan, they always fail to make the right decision. Usually they have a good idea but then ruin it with the details (WBC). But it can work, and can make the league better.

[gerby23]

I am from San Antonio, and while it does have a population of about 1.5 million, it is not a very rich city. They would have the same attendance problems there as they do in Miami.

Also, they have been trying to get an NFL team into the monstrosity that is the Alamodome for years, now it is unused and the sad part of that is: it is 4 feet too short to house a baseball team by MLB regs. The Marlins would require a new stadium, and that being the case, as badly as they want it, I doubt this happens. Just not a good fit city wise, IMO.

Cubbie from TX in AR

[blake61]

I too am from SA (and have lived here for close to 20 years) and tend to think a baseball team could thrive in SA as mid-market sized team. While the city may not have a mass of corporate sponsors to take advantage of there are enough. The SBC acquistion of AT&T will make the SA headquarted company even stronger and richer, HEB grocery stores will certainly be a major sponsor, and lets not forget that Toyota just opened a huge plant in the area which would seem to make Toyota a possible major sponsor. On top of that San Antonio is also home to USAA insurance, the LaQuinta Hotels chains, Tesoro Energy ( a fortune 500 company), Valero Energy (one of a largest independent energy companies in the nation). San Antonio is also home of Clear Channel Communications, which is the largest media conglomerate in the US. Clear Channel would certainly have interest in boardcast rights, as well as sponsorship, to many MLB team in the area. Also, because SA is such a tourism town Southwest Airlines, which is one of the three major sponsors of the Spurs along with HEB and SBC/AT&T, would surely be interest in supporting an MLB franchise here. Add of these companies up and San Antonio would seem to have plenty of corporate sponsorship to support a MLB team.

 

While it is true that much of a city's estimated population is poor, almost everything north of 410 and I-10 (both I-10 west and east) is experinencing a population and likewise a realestate boom. This area cannot grow fast enough to keep up with population demand. This area is a high income area that is growing exponentially with a new high school or two opening every year. Add to that the booming populations of the metro-area cities of Live Oak and Converse as well as others and you can get an idea of how quickly the city is growing. In these areas the median income is high to very high. While much of the city's estimated population of 2 million people is on the low side of the income scale, many being illegal, the city's median household income is still over $43,000/ year according to the SA Express-News which is comparable to Dallas and Houston.

What I am thinking is that a stadium located 10 to 15 miles north of San Antonio, perphads in between I-35 I-10, which would put the stadium close to both Six Flags Fiesta Texas and Seaworld of Texas, would draw in many people from the booming areas of San Antonio, as well as drawing in tourists (which is the city's major industry). A stadium in this genreal location would also seemingly bring in fans from the Austin area which would be less than an hour from the heart of Austin with minimal traffic (I know that there is never minimal traffic, but one can dream can't he).

Put all of this togather and I think that it is very reasonable that a MLB franchis in the San Antonio area could thrive.

 

(Also, I think that a team in this area would certainly draw corporate sponsors from the Austin area, such as Dell)

(Last thing, with the way San Antonio is expanning north, in 20 years I see San Antonio and Austin forming a metroplex in the same fashion as Dallas and Fort Worth, and with the Latin influence down here I can certainly see baseball in this area being more popular than anything, including the NBA and NFL)

[Lakota_Warrior]

I too am from SA (and have lived here for close to 20 years) and tend to think a baseball team could thrive in SA as mid-market sized team. While the city may not have a mass of corporate sponsors to take advantage of there are enough. The SBC acquistion of AT&T will make the SA headquarted company even stronger and richer, HEB grocery stores will certainly be a major sponsor, and lets not forget that Toyota just opened a huge plant in the area which would seem to make Toyota a possible major sponsor. On top of that San Antonio is also home to USAA insurance, the LaQuinta Hotels chains, Tesoro Energy ( a fortune 500 company), Valero Energy (one of a largest independent energy companies in the nation). San Antonio is also home of Clear Channel Communications, which is the largest media conglomerate in the US. Clear Channel would certainly have interest in boardcast rights, as well as sponsorship, to many MLB team in the area. Also, because SA is such a tourism town Southwest Airlines, which is one of the three major sponsors of the Spurs along with HEB and SBC/AT&T, would surely be interest in supporting an MLB franchise here. Add of these companies up and San Antonio would seem to have plenty of corporate sponsorship to support a MLB team.

 

While it is true that much of a city's estimated population is poor, almost everything north of 410 and I-10 (both I-10 west and east) is experinencing a population and likewise a realestate boom. This area cannot grow fast enough to keep up with population demand. This area is a high income area that is growing exponentially with a new high school or two opening every year. Add to that the booming populations of the metro-area cities of Live Oak and Converse as well as others and you can get an idea of how quickly the city is growing. In these areas the median income is high to very high. While much of the city's estimated population of 2 million people is on the low side of the income scale, many being illegal, the city's median household income is still over $43,000/ year according to the SA Express-News which is comparable to Dallas and Houston.

What I am thinking is that a stadium located 10 to 15 miles north of San Antonio, perphads in between I-35 I-10, which would put the stadium close to both Six Flags Fiesta Texas and Seaworld of Texas, would draw in many people from the booming areas of San Antonio, as well as drawing in tourists (which is the city's major industry). A stadium in this genreal location would also seemingly bring in fans from the Austin area which would be less than an hour from the heart of Austin with minimal traffic (I know that there is never minimal traffic, but one can dream can't he).

Put all of this togather and I think that it is very reasonable that a MLB franchis in the San Antonio area could thrive.

 

(Also, I think that a team in this area would certainly draw corporate sponsors from the Austin area, such as Dell)

(Last thing, with the way San Antonio is expanning north, in 20 years I see San Antonio and Austin forming a metroplex in the same fashion as Dallas and Fort Worth, and with the Latin influence down here I can certainly see baseball in this area being more popular than anything, including the NBA and NFL)

 

I have to agree with you. I have spent much time in the Corpus Christi area and people down there would love to have a MLB team as close as San Antonio. Houston and DFW are too far away to gain much of a following. Thrown together, SA/Austin/CC and surrounding area would make a fairly good market, IMO.

[satxcubfan]

post deleted... I pretty much said the same as blake in reference to corporate support for a team. I should probably read all the posts before replying! :oops: