jacque's prediction

[Magnetic Curses]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the highlighted point above (while I DO agree with you wholeheartedly on the being patient at the plate stance when it's warranted). While I absolutely agree that OBP is the #1 statistic that each ballplayer can work on improving in order to better the record of the overall team, other factors still come into play. Wouldn't you agree that since many players offensively fail 7 out of 10 times at getting on base, one should do things like hit behind a runner and cut down on your swing simply to make contact when the situation is called for? That way, if you succeed in getting on base great, but if you don't, you still have increased the possibility that your out has done SOMETHING to increase the odds that the next guy will be able to get the run in?

 

there's no room for a player to be that pitiful at getting on base. i don't want them on my team, period.

 

it's inconclusive whether bunting, hitting and running, or moving runners over with "productive outs" helps a team at all. what IS conclusive is that making less outs helps your team win. when a good hitter volunteers an out to the other team, he's saying, "yes i know that i have a 35% chance of not making an out, but i'm going to bunt the guy on second over so the guy behind me can have a 27% chance of hitting him in. what's more, is that i also average over a half of a base when i swing away, but i'm still going to eliminate any possibility of doing so, and forget about a big inning, im settling for getting a runner in scoring position."

[marc_foust]

I'm curios as to what numbers would make cub nation happy with Jones?

 

285/315/425 with 18 SB and 21 HR?? Higher or lower, what would take criticism off Hendry for bringing him in? What numbers would put him in the class of ARam, Lee, and Barrett?

[goonys evil twin]

I'm curios as to what numbers would make cub nation happy with Jones?

 

285/315/425 with 18 SB and 21 HR?? Higher or lower, what would take criticism off Hendry for bringing him in? What numbers would put him in the class of ARam, Lee, and Barrett?

 

RF should be at minimum something like .290/.350/.500, and probably higher than that, given the weakness of the rest of the positions.

 

Jacque Jones sucks. He's been bad for quite some time. He could significantly outperform expectations and still hurt this team by underperforming compared to what a RF and middle of the order guy should be doing.

 

It was a bad signing by Hendry, especially the 3 year part. Jones would have to outperform his career averages by a wide margin every year of his deal for me to say Hendry was right. The Cubs were desperate for a bit bat and they settled on mediocrity, once again.

[marc_foust]

I would not say that hitting 295-305 range would be hurting the team. If he is batting behind Lee and ARam and hits anywhere near 300 he should have 125 rbi at least. If we can go with Walker, Lee, ARam, Jones we could have four 300 hitters 2-5. With Pierre getting on base at all and Barrett and Murton contributing, the cubs would have a very impressive lineup, that is without Cedeno having to hit. It is not out of the question to assume that Jones could put up around 295+ batting average. He has done it before and is not so old that it would be impossible for him to regain form.

[anemic offense]

"i'll hit 20-25 homers, somewhere around .300 and drive in 80-90 runs"

 

i'm skeptical, but i think if we got that out of him and no MAJOR injuries occur (i.e. lee, ramirez, pierre, prior, z), the NL central is a realistic goal.

 

I think Jock should have consulted with the GREAT Atodda the Hundley before he made this prediction. IIRC, "If people don't think I'll hit 40 HRS this year they're crazy". No Todd, it was YOU who was crazy. Though I'll have to admit, I got the feeling this one's actually going to happen.

[CubfaninCA]

18 homers and .770 ops. I bet he misses 40 games. He'll catch the Nomar Wood bug.

[Magnetic Curses]

I'm curios as to what numbers would make cub nation happy with Jones?

 

285/315/425 with 18 SB and 21 HR?? Higher or lower, what would take criticism off Hendry for bringing him in? What numbers would put him in the class of ARam, Lee, and Barrett?

 

a .315 OBP will make me very upset. and, more likely, if he hits .285, his OBP should be somewhere in the .340 neighborhood.

 

a .740 OPS will NOT appease me, and he can keep the stolen bases if he's not getting on base.

[Dr. Cub]

I'm curios as to what numbers would make cub nation happy with Jones?

 

285/315/425 with 18 SB and 21 HR?? Higher or lower, what would take criticism off Hendry for bringing him in? What numbers would put him in the class of ARam, Lee, and Barrett?

 

RF should be at minimum something like .290/.350/.500, and probably higher than that, given the weakness of the rest of the positions.

 

Jacque Jones sucks. He's been bad for quite some time. He could significantly outperform expectations and still hurt this team by underperforming compared to what a RF and middle of the order guy should be doing.

 

It was a bad signing by Hendry, especially the 3 year part. Jones would have to outperform his career averages by a wide margin every year of his deal for me to say Hendry was right. The Cubs were desperate for a bit bat and they settled on mediocrity, once again.

 

You do realize not a single NL RF with over 400 PA's hit that minimum mark you set, right? Two guys (Giles & Jenkins) hit over .290, five had an OBP over .350, and one guy (Jenkins) had a SLG over .500. While I agree with you wholeheartedly on Jones (he does suck, and will likely continue sucking) the numbers you set as a minimum for RF are a bit lofty. I know you qualified it with the fact that the other positions are weak, but you stated that it should be even higher because of that. I just don't think those numbers are realistic. In essence you are saying our starting RF should have to produce at a level above all other RF's, as a minimum.

 

Edit: If you lower it to 200 PA's, you add 1 guy to AVG, 4 to OBP, and 3 to SLG. Still no one meets the .290/.350/.500 line.

[Guest]

For the record, the average line for batters fielding the RF position was .270/.340/.454 last year.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm curios as to what numbers would make cub nation happy with Jones?

 

285/315/425 with 18 SB and 21 HR?? Higher or lower, what would take criticism off Hendry for bringing him in? What numbers would put him in the class of ARam, Lee, and Barrett?

 

RF should be at minimum something like .290/.350/.500, and probably higher than that, given the weakness of the rest of the positions.

 

Jacque Jones sucks. He's been bad for quite some time. He could significantly outperform expectations and still hurt this team by underperforming compared to what a RF and middle of the order guy should be doing.

 

It was a bad signing by Hendry, especially the 3 year part. Jones would have to outperform his career averages by a wide margin every year of his deal for me to say Hendry was right. The Cubs were desperate for a bit bat and they settled on mediocrity, once again.

 

You do realize not a single NL RF with over 400 PA's hit that minimum mark you set, right? Two guys (Giles & Jenkins) hit over .290, five had an OBP over .350, and one guy (Jenkins) had a SLG over .500. While I agree with you wholeheartedly on Jones (he does suck, and will likely continue sucking) the numbers you set as a minimum for RF are a bit lofty. I know you qualified it with the fact that the other positions are weak, but you stated that it should be even higher because of that. I just don't think those numbers are realistic. In essence you are saying our starting RF should have to produce at a level above all other RF's, as a minimum.

 

Edit: If you lower it to 200 PA's, you add 1 guy to AVG, 4 to OBP, and 3 to SLG. Still no one meets the .290/.350/.500 line.

 

You're right that the 850 OPS guy may be tough to get, but we shouldn't settle for someone who equalled the 757 that Burnitz put up last year.

[Dr. Cub]

I'm curios as to what numbers would make cub nation happy with Jones?

 

285/315/425 with 18 SB and 21 HR?? Higher or lower, what would take criticism off Hendry for bringing him in? What numbers would put him in the class of ARam, Lee, and Barrett?

 

RF should be at minimum something like .290/.350/.500, and probably higher than that, given the weakness of the rest of the positions.

 

Jacque Jones sucks. He's been bad for quite some time. He could significantly outperform expectations and still hurt this team by underperforming compared to what a RF and middle of the order guy should be doing.

 

It was a bad signing by Hendry, especially the 3 year part. Jones would have to outperform his career averages by a wide margin every year of his deal for me to say Hendry was right. The Cubs were desperate for a bit bat and they settled on mediocrity, once again.

 

You do realize not a single NL RF with over 400 PA's hit that minimum mark you set, right? Two guys (Giles & Jenkins) hit over .290, five had an OBP over .350, and one guy (Jenkins) had a SLG over .500. While I agree with you wholeheartedly on Jones (he does suck, and will likely continue sucking) the numbers you set as a minimum for RF are a bit lofty. I know you qualified it with the fact that the other positions are weak, but you stated that it should be even higher because of that. I just don't think those numbers are realistic. In essence you are saying our starting RF should have to produce at a level above all other RF's, as a minimum.

 

Edit: If you lower it to 200 PA's, you add 1 guy to AVG, 4 to OBP, and 3 to SLG. Still no one meets the .290/.350/.500 line.

 

You're right that the 850 OPS guy may be tough to get, but we shouldn't settle for someone who equalled the 757 that Burnitz put up last year.

 

Without a doubt.

[Careless]

I'm curios as to what numbers would make cub nation happy with Jones?

 

285/315/425 with 18 SB and 21 HR?? Higher or lower, what would take criticism off Hendry for bringing him in? What numbers would put him in the class of ARam, Lee, and Barrett?

 

RF should be at minimum something like .290/.350/.500, and probably higher than that, given the weakness of the rest of the positions.

 

Jacque Jones sucks. He's been bad for quite some time. He could significantly outperform expectations and still hurt this team by underperforming compared to what a RF and middle of the order guy should be doing.

 

It was a bad signing by Hendry, especially the 3 year part. Jones would have to outperform his career averages by a wide margin every year of his deal for me to say Hendry was right. The Cubs were desperate for a bit bat and they settled on mediocrity, once again.

 

You do realize not a single NL RF with over 400 PA's hit that minimum mark you set, right? Two guys (Giles & Jenkins) hit over .290, five had an OBP over .350, and one guy (Jenkins) had a SLG over .500. While I agree with you wholeheartedly on Jones (he does suck, and will likely continue sucking) the numbers you set as a minimum for RF are a bit lofty. I know you qualified it with the fact that the other positions are weak, but you stated that it should be even higher because of that. I just don't think those numbers are realistic. In essence you are saying our starting RF should have to produce at a level above all other RF's, as a minimum.

 

Edit: If you lower it to 200 PA's, you add 1 guy to AVG, 4 to OBP, and 3 to SLG. Still no one meets the .290/.350/.500 line.

Really a down year for RF in the NL

[Guest]

I'm curios as to what numbers would make cub nation happy with Jones?

 

285/315/425 with 18 SB and 21 HR?? Higher or lower, what would take criticism off Hendry for bringing him in? What numbers would put him in the class of ARam, Lee, and Barrett?

 

RF should be at minimum something like .290/.350/.500, and probably higher than that, given the weakness of the rest of the positions.

 

Jacque Jones sucks. He's been bad for quite some time. He could significantly outperform expectations and still hurt this team by underperforming compared to what a RF and middle of the order guy should be doing.

 

It was a bad signing by Hendry, especially the 3 year part. Jones would have to outperform his career averages by a wide margin every year of his deal for me to say Hendry was right. The Cubs were desperate for a bit bat and they settled on mediocrity, once again.

 

You do realize not a single NL RF with over 400 PA's hit that minimum mark you set, right? Two guys (Giles & Jenkins) hit over .290, five had an OBP over .350, and one guy (Jenkins) had a SLG over .500. While I agree with you wholeheartedly on Jones (he does suck, and will likely continue sucking) the numbers you set as a minimum for RF are a bit lofty. I know you qualified it with the fact that the other positions are weak, but you stated that it should be even higher because of that. I just don't think those numbers are realistic. In essence you are saying our starting RF should have to produce at a level above all other RF's, as a minimum.

 

Edit: If you lower it to 200 PA's, you add 1 guy to AVG, 4 to OBP, and 3 to SLG. Still no one meets the .290/.350/.500 line.

Really a down year for RF in the NL

It was a down year all-round; AL right fielders were even worse than their NL counterparts.

[goonys evil twin]

RF should be at minimum something like .290/.350/.500, and probably higher than that, given the weakness of the rest of the positions.

 

Jacque Jones sucks. He's been bad for quite some time. He could significantly outperform expectations and still hurt this team by underperforming compared to what a RF and middle of the order guy should be doing.

 

It was a bad signing by Hendry, especially the 3 year part. Jones would have to outperform his career averages by a wide margin every year of his deal for me to say Hendry was right. The Cubs were desperate for a bit bat and they settled on mediocrity, once again.

 

You do realize not a single NL RF with over 400 PA's hit that minimum mark you set, right? Two guys (Giles & Jenkins) hit over .290, five had an OBP over .350, and one guy (Jenkins) had a SLG over .500. While I agree with you wholeheartedly on Jones (he does suck, and will likely continue sucking) the numbers you set as a minimum for RF are a bit lofty. I know you qualified it with the fact that the other positions are weak, but you stated that it should be even higher because of that. I just don't think those numbers are realistic. In essence you are saying our starting RF should have to produce at a level above all other RF's, as a minimum.

 

Edit: If you lower it to 200 PA's, you add 1 guy to AVG, 4 to OBP, and 3 to SLG. Still no one meets the .290/.350/.500 line.

 

You do realize that I wrote "something like". I never said that he had to have a minimum of a .290 AVG, or .350 OBP or a .500 SLG. If the guy hit .285, or .270, he could still be something like that 850 OPS RF, which is not that difficult to find. If a guy slugs .490, but has the other numbers, he's something like what I'd be looking for. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word minimum. But I did try to phrase it in a way that would express my desire for RF. And it was in response to somebody asking what would make us happy with Jones, and the line he listed 285/315/425, is just abysmal for RF. It's not good for an OF position, but clearly not RF.

[wastra]

RF should be at minimum something like .290/.350/.500, and probably higher than that, given the weakness of the rest of the positions.

 

Jacque Jones sucks. He's been bad for quite some time. He could significantly outperform expectations and still hurt this team by underperforming compared to what a RF and middle of the order guy should be doing.

 

It was a bad signing by Hendry, especially the 3 year part. Jones would have to outperform his career averages by a wide margin every year of his deal for me to say Hendry was right. The Cubs were desperate for a bit bat and they settled on mediocrity, once again.

 

You do realize not a single NL RF with over 400 PA's hit that minimum mark you set, right? Two guys (Giles & Jenkins) hit over .290, five had an OBP over .350, and one guy (Jenkins) had a SLG over .500. While I agree with you wholeheartedly on Jones (he does suck, and will likely continue sucking) the numbers you set as a minimum for RF are a bit lofty. I know you qualified it with the fact that the other positions are weak, but you stated that it should be even higher because of that. I just don't think those numbers are realistic. In essence you are saying our starting RF should have to produce at a level above all other RF's, as a minimum.

 

Edit: If you lower it to 200 PA's, you add 1 guy to AVG, 4 to OBP, and 3 to SLG. Still no one meets the .290/.350/.500 line.

 

You do realize that I wrote "something like". I never said that he had to have a minimum of a .290 AVG, or .350 OBP or a .500 SLG. If the guy hit .285, or .270, he could still be something like that 850 OPS RF, which is not that difficult to find. If a guy slugs .490, but has the other numbers, he's something like what I'd be looking for. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word minimum. But I did try to phrase it in a way that would express my desire for RF. And it was in response to somebody asking what would make us happy with Jones, and the line he listed 285/315/425, is just abysmal for RF. It's not good for an OF position, but clearly not RF.

 

[Hendry rationalization]

But, Gooney, it should be 8th highest in the league among right fielders with more than 120 strikeouts and between the ages of 28 and 32. :? :roll:

[/Hendry rationalization]