2006 Batting Order with Current players

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I actually like Cedeno in the second spot. In my mind, he would be the ideal #2 hitter, assuming that Walker has left. To me, Cedeno is much more of an established player than Murton is.

 

Pierre (obvious)

Cedeno (I think he could really groove here, plus he's got good speed)

Lee (no surprise)

Ramirez (no surprise)

Jones (I have a feeling he'll do much better in Wrigley)

Barrett (Good bat, especially in clutch and rallys)

Murton (Good bat so far, still seems rather unproven to me [see DuBois])

Hairston/Neifi! (Low OBP, low AVG, low SLG)

 

Why is it obvious Pierre should bat leadoff? If I were a Cub fan I would want him to get as few as AB's as possible. As I stated before, I'd bat Walker and Murton in the top 2 spots because of increased OBP and extra base hits.

 

I almost wanted to drop Pierre in the order, but I can't see Murton or Cedeno being likely to give you better production.

[Balsa]

Why is it obvious Pierre should bat leadoff? If I were a Cub fan I would want him to get as few as AB's as possible. As I stated before, I'd bat Walker and Murton in the top 2 spots because of increased OBP and extra base hits.

 

No way. BTW, I'm assuming that Walker will not be with the team. I wouldn't give the leadoff spot to somebody who just started in the ML, I think you want someone with experience. Some who is a big steal threat to make the pitchers nervous. You want someone who frequently walks more than he strikes out. To me, neither Cedeno or Murton have enough experience to bat leadoff. Especially after trying to force Corey into that role.

 

I think Pierre was a huge pickup for the cubs. I really think he improves the team a lot. Finally, a tested, proven leadoff hitter. There's no way I would bat him anywhere else.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I actually like Cedeno in the second spot. In my mind, he would be the ideal #2 hitter, assuming that Walker has left. To me, Cedeno is much more of an established player than Murton is.

 

Pierre (obvious)

Cedeno (I think he could really groove here, plus he's got good speed)

Lee (no surprise)

Ramirez (no surprise)

Jones (I have a feeling he'll do much better in Wrigley)

Barrett (Good bat, especially in clutch and rallys)

Murton (Good bat so far, still seems rather unproven to me [see DuBois])

Hairston/Neifi! (Low OBP, low AVG, low SLG)

 

I don't see how you can say Cedeno is more established than Murton.

 

Murton played in 51 games with 140 ABs.

Cedeno played in 41 games with 80 AB's.

 

Murton's line of 321/386/521 is a bit better than Cedeno's line of 300/356/375.

 

Both players would be fine there, but I don't think it is a supportable statement to say that Cedeno is more established than Murton considering Murton has played in more games and has had more at bats.

[Balsa]

I perfer Cedeno because he's had more minor league experience. For instance, he's played a full year at AA last year and got 225 ABs last year in AAA before being moved up.

 

Murton, OTOH, started at AA this year with 313 ABs, moved up to AAA for 34 ABs, and then moved up to the majors.

 

Not that I don't have great feelings about both young players, but if I had to make a choice, I like the extended AAA play that Cedeno has.

 

Plus, Cedeno raked in the Ven. league.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Murton did farily well in the AFL as well.

[Balsa]

Murton did farily well in the AFL as well.

 

Oh right. I forgot about that. What was the stat line? I can't find it online. :?

[Northsider]

Murton did farily well in the AFL as well.

 

Oh right. I forgot about that. What was the stat line? I can't find it online. :?

 

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

24 92 15 31 11 1 1 14 47 7 12 3 1 .396 .511 .337

 

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Matt%20Murton&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=444875

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Murton did farily well in the AFL as well.

 

Oh right. I forgot about that. What was the stat line? I can't find it online. :?

 

.337/.396/.511/.907, 11 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 14 RBI, 7BB, 12K, 3SB, 1CS, 0 E. (92 AB)

 

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I was challenging your claim that Cedeno is the more "established" player. Murton has been more successful in more major league at bats. That in itself shows more than Cedeno's AAA stats. Also, it isn't like Murton didn't perform in Iowa; he did.

 

They're both pretty similar in experience right now, but Murton has proven a tad more than Cedeno.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Why is it obvious Pierre should bat leadoff? If I were a Cub fan I would want him to get as few as AB's as possible. As I stated before, I'd bat Walker and Murton in the top 2 spots because of increased OBP and extra base hits.

 

No way. BTW, I'm assuming that Walker will not be with the team. I wouldn't give the leadoff spot to somebody who just started in the ML, I think you want someone with experience. Some who is a big steal threat to make the pitchers nervous. You want someone who frequently walks more than he strikes out. To me, neither Cedeno or Murton have enough experience to bat leadoff. Especially after trying to force Corey into that role.

 

I think Pierre was a huge pickup for the cubs. I really think he improves the team a lot. Finally, a tested, proven leadoff hitter. There's no way I would bat him anywhere else.

 

I don't believe Pierre's speed will add much to the Cubs and he doesn't really walk much. I believe all three players will have similar OBP however Murton and Walker should have a better SLG so I'd want them to get more AB's. Obviously I'm the minority opinion here.

 

 

If Walker gets delt I'd do the following:

 

Pierre\Hairston - whoever is swinging a hotter bat, most likely Pierre

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Jones

Hairston\Pierre - whoever is swinging a colder bat, most likely Hairston

Cedeno

[TB_11]

I know that some of you have acknowledged this, but why is it that some people would not consider Murton in the 2nd spot? He has some speed, hustles, good plate discipline, and shown some signs of some pop. Plus, he seems to be able to put the ball in play - great for a little hit and run. The only thing I can think of is that there is hope that the signs of pop will grow and he might be more valuable down in the order. I know we only have a small sample to take from, but it seems he would be a great table setter with Pierre for Lee & Ramiriz.

 

If Walker is in the lineup, I bat him second as he has consistently shown that he can get on base, while Murton has less than a season under his belt. Without Walker in the lineup (which sounds like what 2006 will be like), I bat Murton 2nd always when Neifi plays. If Hairston is in the lineup and Murton struggles, I'd drop Murton down in the order and bat Hairston 2nd.

[Guest]

Why is it obvious Pierre should bat leadoff? If I were a Cub fan I would want him to get as few as AB's as possible. As I stated before, I'd bat Walker and Murton in the top 2 spots because of increased OBP and extra base hits.

While Pierre is no offensive panacea, his skill set is such that he provides the most value at the top of the order. There are two main components to scoring runs; getting on base and advancing runners. For the most part Pierre is pretty good on the first count. His great speed and fantastic contact ratio allow him to maintain a healthy average, which in turn help him post good OBP. The fickle nature of BABIP makes him prone to down years like those he suffered in 2002 and 2005, but for the most part you can expect him to do a good job getting on base. The other component of run production, advancing runners, is where Pierre is seriously deficient. The vast majority of his hits are singles, and a lot of those are of the infield variety. In short, he doesn’t do a good job at advancing runners.

 

With those traits in mind, you’d want to place Pierre in a lineup spot where there are few opportunities to advance runners and where there are good hitters behind him who will drive him in when he gets on base. There’s a nice term coined for such a lineup slot; leadoff. I really can’t think of anywhere I’d bat Pierre aside from leadoff. (Unless you're talking about a theoretical lineup has a player with a better OBP but a similarly weak SLG, that is.) Then again, it doesn’t look like batting order has a huge impact on run production, so for the most part I’d say these issues don’t really matter.

[HoopsCubs]

I'd go with:

 

Pierre

Cedeno

Lee

Ramirez

Murton

Barrett

Jones

Hairston

[Bergy92]

I'd go with:

 

Pierre

Cedeno

Lee

Ramirez

Murton

Barrett

Jones

Hairston

 

I do think that you are right, Hoops, as far as having Hairston in the lineup. As I have thought about it more - if Walker is gone, I would much rather have Hairston playing than Neifi. I think it makes you a better team. One main reason is that Neifi is much stronger coming off the bench than Jerry would be. I think that most people here would acknowledge Neifi is a good role player for us. He will be valuable if used rightly (I know, I know....).

[muntjack]

I hop everyone realizes that Hairston will most likely be on the soft end of a platoon with Neifi.

 

The lineup will almost certainly be

 

Pierre

Neifi

Lee

Jones

Ramirez

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

[gus_dog]

I hop everyone realizes that Hairston will most likely be on the soft end of a platoon with Neifi.

 

The lineup will almost certainly be

 

Pierre

Neifi

Lee

Jones

Ramirez

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

I also noticed that neifi was hardly mentioned. You got it right, at least that's how Baker will probably do it.

 

Perhaps move Barrett up and Murton down.

[muntjack]

Well, at the end of last season, Murton was hitting in the six hole a lot, IIRC. That's why I put him ahead of Barrett. My lineup would be:

 

Pierre

Hairston

Lee

Ramirez

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

Jones

[RockTheIvy]

At least Juan can swipe bags. That way we don't have to rely on one of Neifi!'s girly swinging bunt things to move him there.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Why is it obvious Pierre should bat leadoff? If I were a Cub fan I would want him to get as few as AB's as possible. As I stated before, I'd bat Walker and Murton in the top 2 spots because of increased OBP and extra base hits.

While Pierre is no offensive panacea, his skill set is such that he provides the most value at the top of the order. There are two main components to scoring runs; getting on base and advancing runners. For the most part Pierre is pretty good on the first count. His great speed and fantastic contact ratio allow him to maintain a healthy average, which in turn help him post good OBP. The fickle nature of BABIP makes him prone to down years like those he suffered in 2002 and 2005, but for the most part you can expect him to do a good job getting on base. The other component of run production, advancing runners, is where Pierre is seriously deficient. The vast majority of his hits are singles, and a lot of those are of the infield variety. In short, he doesn’t do a good job at advancing runners.

 

With those traits in mind, you’d want to place Pierre in a lineup spot where there are few opportunities to advance runners and where there are good hitters behind him who will drive him in when he gets on base. There’s a nice term coined for such a lineup slot; leadoff. I really can’t think of anywhere I’d bat Pierre aside from leadoff. (Unless you're talking about a theoretical lineup has a player with a better OBP but a similarly weak SLG, that is.) Then again, it doesn’t look like batting order has a huge impact on run production, so for the most part I’d say these issues don’t really matter.

 

 

Although I respect your points, I still believe run production is maximized by putting the best hitters in front of the lineup. However you are right, batting order doesn't have a huge impact on production.