Foreign or Domestic?

[EricG]

My first car was a Geo Prizm. Laugh if you will but my wife's uncle is still driving it and its going on 225,000 miles.

 

Currently, my vehicles are a Pontiac Bonneyville and a Buick Terraza (it's a mini van).

 

I think the Prizm's had Toyota engines in them. I'm certainly not surprised it has 225k and is still running.

 

Yes they did.

the Prizm was just a rebadged Corrolla. Now they have the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix that are the same base car.

[bc2k]

My first car was a Geo Prizm. Laugh if you will but my wife's uncle is still driving it and its going on 225,000 miles.

 

Currently, my vehicles are a Pontiac Bonneyville and a Buick Terraza (it's a mini van).

 

I think the Prizm's had Toyota engines in them. I'm certainly not surprised it has 225k and is still running.

 

Yes they did.

the Prizm was just a rebadged Corrolla. Now they have the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix that are the same base car.

 

Interesting, I didn't know that about the Vibe and Matrix.

 

Why would Pontiac want to team with Toyota and vice versa?

 

So are the Vibe and Matrix mostly a GM product or Toyota?

[CuseCubFan69]

My first car was a Geo Prizm. Laugh if you will but my wife's uncle is still driving it and its going on 225,000 miles.

 

Currently, my vehicles are a Pontiac Bonneyville and a Buick Terraza (it's a mini van).

 

I think the Prizm's had Toyota engines in them. I'm certainly not surprised it has 225k and is still running.

 

Yes they did.

the Prizm was just a rebadged Corrolla. Now they have the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix that are the same base car.

 

Interesting, I didn't know that about the Vibe and Matrix.

 

Why would Pontiac want to team with Toyota and vice versa?

 

So are the Vibe and Matrix mostly a GM product or Toyota?

 

The Saturn VUE has a Honda engine in it.

[J.R.]

HA! From the guy who has never owned a Toyota or Honda.

 

I'm a student of the auto industry. I've spent time in makes from just about every manufacturer doing business in this country ... I've had more than my fair share of exposure to Honda and Toyota products. As another Asian notable, Sun Tsu, said - "know thine enemy as thyself." That's fostered my intense study of models from foreign sources as a supplement to my fascination with the American automakers.

 

I'm amazed at the ease with which fans of foreign cars and the American media - two supposedly seperate entities which are really one and the same in practice - dismiss the JD Power surveys, which use a much better statistical base than Consumer Reports. I think some people are afraid their heads would explode if they ever accepted the notion that American cars don't suck donkey balls.

 

My first car was a Geo Prizm. Laugh if you will but my wife's uncle is still driving it and its going on 225,000 miles.

 

Currently, my vehicles are a Pontiac Bonneyville and a Buick Terraza (it's a mini van).

 

I think the Prizm's had Toyota engines in them. I'm certainly not surprised it has 225k and is still running.

 

Yes they did.

the Prizm was just a rebadged Corrolla. Now they have the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix that are the same base car.

 

Interesting, I didn't know that about the Vibe and Matrix.

 

Why would Pontiac want to team with Toyota and vice versa?

 

So are the Vibe and Matrix mostly a GM product or Toyota?

 

The Vibe and Matrix' mechanicals are mostly Toyota-derived, and the electronics came from GM; styling work was completed by Pontiac and Toyota for their respective models. They're both assembled on the same line at the NUMMI plant in California.

 

Incidentally, the Vibe outsells the Matrix by a considerable margin. Most GM fans, like myself, think it's time for this partnership to end. NUMMI was started in the mid-80's, back when GM was looking for a competitive entry into the small-car class (Nova/Corolla), and Toyota was looking for help in constructing a plant on U.S. soil. IMHO both companies now do well on their own, on both counts.

 

The arrangement has allowed GM to learn much about Toyota's lean manufacturing techniques, and in the end, I think GM got the better of the deal. But the lessons have been learned at this point, and the situation makes GM look weak in the minds of many. Time to get out.

 

The Saturn VUE has a Honda engine in it.

 

The Honda engines used in the VUE are the result of an arrangement in which GM gets the motors in exchange for providing Honda with diesels for use in Europe. This too, IMHO, is a needless alliance which makes GM look weak in this market, as no one ever hears about the GM-powered Hondas and assumes that GM went begging for the Honda unit because it couldn't come up with one on its own.

[stitchface]

My first car was a Geo Prizm. Laugh if you will but my wife's uncle is still driving it and its going on 225,000 miles.

 

Currently, my vehicles are a Pontiac Bonneyville and a Buick Terraza (it's a mini van).

 

I'm sure that Lynx of mine was destroyed in the junkyard 5 years after I bought it.

 

My current vehicles are a Ford 150 and a Mazda MPV. Love the Ford and I hate the Mazda with an utter passion.

 

the mazda is a ford . . .

[J.R.]

Here's an excellent, unbiased look at the state of the auto industry. It's from last month's Playboy, but the link is family-friendly.

 

It's a bit of a long read, but I think anyone with an interest in this discussion would enjoy it.

[Careless]

Quality over loyalty ---> Foreign!

 

(I owned a brand new GM once, and it was an absolute nightmare. I'll take a 10 year-old Japanese car over American any day.)

 

There are Japanese and European nightmares sold every day; no company makes perfect cars. The quality surveys (reality) don't match your perception.

 

HA! From the guy who has never owned a Toyota or Honda.

 

Buy a new Camry or Civic, drive it for a decade and then get back to me.

 

I do respect your loyalty to the American worker.

The worthless remains of my camry are calling to disagree with you. My virtually flawless american cars made post 94 would also like to say something... but an experience with 3 (or 30) cars is essentially meaningless, except when it allows you to disprove a universal.

[J.R.]

The worthless remains of my camry are calling to disagree with you. My virtually flawless american cars made post 94 would also like to say something... but an experience with 3 (or 30) cars is essentially meaningless, except when it allows you to disprove a universal.

 

No one wants to hear about hardy GMs or fragile Toyotas.

[bc2k]

HA! From the guy who has never owned a Toyota or Honda.

 

I'm a student of the auto industry. I've spent time in makes from just about every manufacturer doing business in this country ... I've had more than my fair share of exposure to Honda and Toyota products. As another Asian notable, Sun Tsu, said - "know thine enemy as thyself." That's fostered my intense study of models from foreign sources as a supplement to my fascination with the American automakers.

 

I'm amazed at the ease with which fans of foreign cars and the American media - two supposedly seperate entities which are really one and the same in practice - dismiss the JD Power surveys, which use a much better statistical base than Consumer Reports. I think some people are afraid their heads would explode if they ever accepted the notion that American cars don't suck donkey balls.

 

My first car was a Geo Prizm. Laugh if you will but my wife's uncle is still driving it and its going on 225,000 miles.

 

Currently, my vehicles are a Pontiac Bonneyville and a Buick Terraza (it's a mini van).

 

I think the Prizm's had Toyota engines in them. I'm certainly not surprised it has 225k and is still running.

 

Yes they did.

the Prizm was just a rebadged Corrolla. Now they have the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix that are the same base car.

 

Interesting, I didn't know that about the Vibe and Matrix.

 

Why would Pontiac want to team with Toyota and vice versa?

 

So are the Vibe and Matrix mostly a GM product or Toyota?

 

The Vibe and Matrix' mechanicals are mostly Toyota-derived, and the electronics came from GM; styling work was completed by Pontiac and Toyota for their respective models. They're both assembled on the same line at the NUMMI plant in California.

 

Incidentally, the Vibe outsells the Matrix by a considerable margin. Most GM fans, like myself, think it's time for this partnership to end. NUMMI was started in the mid-80's, back when GM was looking for a competitive entry into the small-car class (Nova/Corolla), and Toyota was looking for help in constructing a plant on U.S. soil. IMHO both companies now do well on their own, on both counts.

 

The arrangement has allowed GM to learn much about Toyota's lean manufacturing techniques, and in the end, I think GM got the better of the deal. But the lessons have been learned at this point, and the situation makes GM look weak in the minds of many. Time to get out.

 

The Saturn VUE has a Honda engine in it.

 

The Honda engines used in the VUE are the result of an arrangement in which GM gets the motors in exchange for providing Honda with diesels for use in Europe. This too, IMHO, is a needless alliance which makes GM look weak in this market, as no one ever hears about the GM-powered Hondas and assumes that GM went begging for the Honda unit because it couldn't come up with one on its own.

 

Extremely informative. I learned some things.

 

There is no automotive ranking that I put much belief in. The best research I have available to me is personal ownership history and watching the development of friends' autos.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Right now I drive a Mazda Tribute. Absolutely love it. I've had a Chevy Cavalier, which was a total piece of crap, but I abused the SOB so that's probably my fault.

 

My first car was a Pontiac LeMans. I ended up putting 130K miles on it before getting rid of it. (My only real complaint was that every 35K miles, it needed a new timing belt and would break down without any warning.)

 

The second car I bought was a used 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer. I drove the crap out of it and didn't get rid of it until 2000. It had over 100K miles, but it got the worst gas mileage I had ever seen. I only got rid of it because some idiot rear ended me while I was stopped at a red light and knocked me into the car in front of me. I scrunched the car in front and the girl who hit me car's front end made a inverse "v" while my blazer only had bent front and back bumpers and knocked the transmission plate out from underneath...and also when the bumpers bent they caused minor damage to the back tailgate and front grill. After the transmission plate was re-installed, the blazer was still driveable, but the insurance company totaled it anyway. I took their $2000, paid them $200 to keep the car, drove it for three months, bought the Cavalier then sold the damaged Blazer for $1800. (Side note, when I bought the Blazer new in 1995, I only paid $1500 for it.)

 

Ok...enough of chasing rabbits...on to your usual discussions.

[CuseCubFan69]

My first car was a Geo Prizm. Laugh if you will but my wife's uncle is still driving it and its going on 225,000 miles.

 

Currently, my vehicles are a Pontiac Bonneyville and a Buick Terraza (it's a mini van).

 

I'm sure that Lynx of mine was destroyed in the junkyard 5 years after I bought it.

 

My current vehicles are a Ford 150 and a Mazda MPV. Love the Ford and I hate the Mazda with an utter passion.

 

the mazda is a ford . . .

 

The engine is a 2.5 Ford which I don't like and the layout of the interior is Mazda which I dispise.

[J.R.]

Right now I drive a Mazda Tribute. Absolutely love it. I've had a Chevy Cavalier, which was a total piece of crap, but I abused the SOB so that's probably my fault.

 

My first car was a Pontiac LeMans. I ended up putting 130K miles on it before getting rid of it. (My only real complaint was that every 35K miles, it needed a new timing belt and would break down without any warning.)

 

The second car I bought was a used 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer. I drove the crap out of it and didn't get rid of it until 2000. It had over 100K miles, but it got the worst gas mileage I had ever seen. I only got rid of it because some idiot rear ended me while I was stopped at a red light and knocked me into the car in front of me. I scrunched the car in front and the girl who hit me car's front end made a inverse "v" while my blazer only had bent front and back bumpers and knocked the transmission plate out from underneath...and also when the bumpers bent they caused minor damage to the back tailgate and front grill. After the transmission plate was re-installed, the blazer was still driveable, but the insurance company totaled it anyway. I took their $2000, paid them $200 to keep the car, drove it for three months, bought the Cavalier then sold the damaged Blazer for $1800. (Side note, when I bought the Blazer new in 1995, I only paid $1500 for it.)

 

Ok...enough of chasing rabbits...on to your usual discussions.

 

FYI, the Tribute is essentially a Ford Escape, and the LeMans, assuming it was the hatchback model, was a Daewoo for all intents and purposes. You can't tell the players without a scorecard ...

 

Your experience with the Blazer is typical. You can always find a buyer for a 4x4.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

J.R.

 

What do you drive? Or cars you have owned?

[TB_11]

The arrangement has allowed GM to learn much about Toyota's lean manufacturing techniques, and in the end, I think GM got the better of the deal. But the lessons have been learned at this point, and the situation makes GM look weak in the minds of many. Time to get out.

 

 

 

The NUMMI plant was a fair deal. GM knew that to become competitive again in auto manufacturing they would have to become vastly more efficient in assembling cars, and they have. While they used to be the worst of the six major (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, and Nissan) in assembly hours per vehicle, they are now the 4th, with the three Japanese companies ahead of them. Although this has created an increase in those in the jobs bank (remnants of the UAW contract), the practices they learned at NUMMI have increased GM's productivity immensely.

 

For Toyota, it was a very forward looking move on their part. They knew that they had to drop the view of American's that they are a Japanese company that produces Japanese cars in Japan. Partnering with GM helped out, as does the fact that they are looking to build their new engine plant in Michigan of all places. GM and the rest would eventually catch up in productivity anyways, so Toyota realized they might as well get some good PR out of it.

[J.R.]

J.R.

 

What do you drive? Or cars you have owned?

 

Current: 2005 Cadillac CTS, 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, 1997 Oldsmobile Regency, 1994 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight LSS.

 

Past: 2001 Chrysler 300M, 2001 Chrysler Sebring coupe, 1998 Chevrolet Malibu, 1972 Pontiac Bonneville.

 

For Toyota, it was a very forward looking move on their part. They knew that they had to drop the view of American's that they are a Japanese company that produces Japanese cars in Japan. Partnering with GM helped out, as does the fact that they are looking to build their new engine plant in Michigan of all places. GM and the rest would eventually catch up in productivity anyways, so Toyota realized they might as well get some good PR out of it.

 

Toyota's PR machine is the most impressive thing about their company, IMHO. There are plenty of nimrods walking around out there who think Toyota is an American outfit, and that all they make are hybrids with exhaust fumes that cure cancer and smell like lilacs.

[TB_11]

Toyota's PR machine is the most impressive thing about their company, IMHO. There are plenty of nimrods walking around out there who think Toyota is an American outfit, and that all they make are hybrids with exhaust fumes that cure cancer and smell like lilacs.

 

I never thought I'd see better PR than BP Amoco convincing the everyday man it cares about the environment, but what Toyota has done with its hybrids is amazing. Aside from the Honda Insight, most of the benefits from hybrid engine technology are going to added power, not gas mileage. Yet the general public is convinced that hybrid engine cars are more environmentally conscious than anything.

[snoodmonger]

I bought a 1988 Toyota Camry last March for 1500 bucks. I've put about 12,000 miles on it with no problems. It now has 112,000 miles on it.

 

My parents had a 1993 Ford Taurus Wagon. It needed 5 transmissions in it's brief 37,000 mile life. Finally, my dad complained so much they took it back and basically gave him a sedan. Ultimately, they sold me the sedan. It lasted 100,000 miles, but it took 2 engines to get it that far. It would've taken a third to keep it going. I'll never buy a Ford again. I'll probably never buy American again.

[B]

Apparantly you will soon be able to buy a new car for around $10,000. They are being made in China. The story will be on the NBC nightly news tonight.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Apparantly you will soon be able to buy a new car for around $10,000. They are being made in China. The story will be on the NBC nightly news tonight.

 

She's a real beauty!

 

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060109/060109_geeley_hmed.hmedium.jpg

[B]

Apparantly you will soon be able to buy a new car for around $10,000. They are being made in China. The story will be on the NBC nightly news tonight.

 

She's a real beauty!

 

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060109/060109_geeley_hmed.hmedium.jpg

 

I've seen alot worse.

[Burtonbell]

I drive a 2006 Ford Escape Sport XLT. I love the V6 in it.

 

I also owend a (its ok to laugh, I do!) 01 Daewoo Lanos

1993 Pontiac Gran Am GT

1988 Pontiac Bonneville

 

 

Didnt Gm use Daewoo part for the new Suzuki's? I know GM bought out Daewoo of American but that is all I heard about it. I thought I read somewhere that Suzuki is using Daewoo plants and some parts. THe new Suzuki's look an awfully like a Daewoo.

[Careless]

Apparantly you will soon be able to buy a new car for around $10,000. They are being made in China. The story will be on the NBC nightly news tonight.

I've been told in a few years we'll see more like $7k for a chinese car that won't fall apart and will have an engine.

[J.R.]

Apparantly you will soon be able to buy a new car for around $10,000. They are being made in China. The story will be on the NBC nightly news tonight.

 

She's a real beauty!

 

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060109/060109_geeley_hmed.hmedium.jpg

 

That's gross. Someone mentioned that it carries the spirit of Yugo within its accursed frame - beach towel upholstery, keys that break off in the ignition, etc.

[B]

Apparantly you will soon be able to buy a new car for around $10,000. They are being made in China. The story will be on the NBC nightly news tonight.

 

She's a real beauty!

 

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060109/060109_geeley_hmed.hmedium.jpg

 

That's gross. Someone mentioned that it carries the spirit of Yugo within its accursed frame - beach towel upholstery, keys that break off in the ignition, etc.

 

That's not even close to being the ugliest car out there.

[TB_11]

Apparantly you will soon be able to buy a new car for around $10,000. They are being made in China. The story will be on the NBC nightly news tonight.

 

She's a real beauty!

 

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060109/060109_geeley_hmed.hmedium.jpg

 

That's gross. Someone mentioned that it carries the spirit of Yugo within its accursed frame - beach towel upholstery, keys that break off in the ignition, etc.

 

That's not even close to being the ugliest car out there.

 

It will most likely be close to being the lowest quality and most unreliable car in the American market.