Why all the Hendry bashing?

[brfahey]

the hillarious thing is that the A's have succeeded in recent years by applying basic business sense to baseball. I'd consider that QED

 

The A's haven't made the playoffs in the past two years, just like another team some of us follow.

[goonys evil twin]

On forums like this when talking about a team that had a winning record, 2/3 of the team "sucked." The GM and managers both "suck" and are "idiots who are clueless, worthless incompetent, fill in your choice of adj." It's universal.

 

Well, I think it's not that hard to differentiate between the catch-all "they all sucked" and what I consider to be the more rational "these specific people failed at their jobs and need to be replaced, although the core of the team is just fine".

 

 

Mike Downey can go off in the paper and suggest it's beyond reasonable for any stupid fan or media member to complain about Kyle Orton's production at QB and call for a change, or a more reasonable person can actually look at the situation, weigh the different sides objectively and come to a reasonable conclusion that doesn't depend solely on impassioned rhetoric or half-assed use of stats.

[goonys evil twin]

the hillarious thing is that the A's have succeeded in recent years by applying basic business sense to baseball. I'd consider that QED

 

The A's haven't made the playoffs in the past two years, just like another team some of us follow.

 

I wouldn't say "just like", they won more games and did so with little more than half the payroll.

 

 

Since 2000 Oakland has won 571 games, the Cubs won 476. I think Oakland is doing something better than the Cubs.

Edited December 6, 2005 by goony's evil twin

[badger1679666666]

My complete lack of faith in Dusty, and my growing lack of faith in Hendry in no way compells me to believe that anyone who just "wants to be a GM" could be a great one, like it's as easy as mastering a McDonalds counter.

 

But regular posters on NSBB.com should take over GM'ing for all of baseball.

 

I think you are misconstruing what people are saying. Nobody compared it to mastering a McDonald's counter. Practically anybody who can walk, talk, chew gum and count can do the latter. But some are treating a GM position like its similar to being a CEO of Ford (absolutely absurd - although Ford is being run into the ground much like many baseball teams....). You also don't know the educational background, the current jobs or just plain old intelligence of any of these people talking about Hendry. I think, given the parameters I laid out before, that I could do the job. I also think there's 1000s of other people similar to me who could do a similar or better job. If somebody thinks they couldn't do it, fine. If you think I can't do it, fine. If you think others can't do it, fine. If you think there's only a tiny fraction of the population that could possibly master the complexities of the job, fine. Hopefully the competition for a job will be all that much smaller when I win the lottery and can justify changing careers.

 

In all fairness, I don't think it matters much what I think. There are times that I've outloud said I should be the GM of the Cubs, but then I realize there is alot more that goes along with that than saying, get Bradley, Wilkerson, Lugo, and a quality SP.

 

And in all fairness, I don't think it matters much if people think they can be GM, because they aren't. It's just a little irritating to read some stuff - especially stuff about Hendry not working hard, because despite his crappy off-season last year, and his crappy off-season thus far this year, there aren't many managers who are pretty uniformally accepted to work as hard as Hendry does.

[brfahey]

the hillarious thing is that the A's have succeeded in recent years by applying basic business sense to baseball. I'd consider that QED

 

The A's haven't made the playoffs in the past two years, just like another team some of us follow.

 

I wouldn't say "just like", they won more games and did so with little more than half the payroll.

 

 

I would.

[badger1679666666]

the hillarious thing is that the A's have succeeded in recent years by applying basic business sense to baseball. I'd consider that QED

 

The A's haven't made the playoffs in the past two years, just like another team some of us follow.

 

I wouldn't say "just like", they won more games and did so with little more than half the payroll.

 

Is that their GM or their Manager? I have a strong feeling that we would have made the playoffs in 3 straight years (who knows how we would have done IN them) if Cox was our manager and not Dusty.

 

(Yes I do realize Hendry can fire him, but since he's making 4 mil a year maybe his higher ups said, no you can't.)

[hawkeyecub]

On forums like this when talking about a team that had a winning record, 2/3 of the team "sucked." The GM and managers both "suck" and are "idiots who are clueless, worthless incompetent, fill in your choice of adj." It's universal.

 

Well, I think it's not that hard to differentiate between the catch-all "they all sucked" and what I consider to be the more rational "these specific people failed at their jobs and need to be replaced, although the core of the team is just fine".

 

 

Mike Downey can go off in the paper and suggest it's beyond reasonable for any stupid fan or media member to complain about Kyle Orton's production at QB and call for a change, or a more reasonable person can actually look at the situation, weigh the different sides objectively and come to a reasonable conclusion that doesn't depend solely on impassioned rhetoric or half-assed use of stats.

 

Right. And once again I complain about things the same way you outlined in your post. Coaches, front office people and players aren't immune from cricism.

But there are a number of people who view things as black and white as "this player sucks, this coach has no idea what he's doing, this GM is incompetent" and believe it to be true. They're the ones I'm talking about.

[goonys evil twin]

It's just a little irritating to read some stuff - especially stuff about Hendry not working hard, because despite his crappy off-season last year, and his crappy off-season thus far this year, there aren't many managers who are pretty uniformally accepted to work as hard as Hendry does.

 

Well, I don't agree with the "he doesn't work hard" comments. And while like any immature American male, I do giggle at some of the donut jokes, I think they are pointless.

 

I think Hendry works his butt off. But much like his use of the Cubs payroll and this team's offensive philosophy, I think he's terribly inefficient at his job, working too hard for the results he gets (or should I say getting much worse results than what his work ethic should achieve), spending too much for the production he acquires.

 

I do question Andy's level of "trying". He's all about "competing within the division", and I think that hampers Jim to a degree. But he can still work within those parameters to field a better team than he has so far.

[ThePenguin11]

the hillarious thing is that the A's have succeeded in recent years by applying basic business sense to baseball. I'd consider that QED

 

The A's haven't made the playoffs in the past two years, just like another team some of us follow.

 

I wouldn't say "just like", they won more games and did so with little more than half the payroll.

 

Is that their GM or their Manager? I have a strong feeling that we would have made the playoffs in 3 straight years (who knows how we would have done IN them) if Cox was our manager and not Dusty.

 

(Yes I do realize Hendry can fire him, but since he's making 4 mil a year maybe his higher ups said, no you can't.)

 

This is the key. Hendry has brought in great players and Dusty's managed to screw it up. It's pretty simple actually. He would have fired him before this year, but that's another $4 million for a new manager and that money has to come from his budget to get new talent. He was being patient, letting the chips fall where they may. That's a term some Cubs fans should be a little familiar with. We're not even 40% of the way through the winter mettings and people want to crucify Hendry. I've seen idiots on this site say that they'd 'blow their brains out on JH's doorstep if he traded for _______" Come on. That's taking it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far. That's criminally stupid.

[badger1679666666]

It's just a little irritating to read some stuff - especially stuff about Hendry not working hard, because despite his crappy off-season last year, and his crappy off-season thus far this year, there aren't many managers who are pretty uniformally accepted to work as hard as Hendry does.

 

Well, I don't agree with the "he doesn't work hard" comments. And while like any immature American male, I do giggle at some of the donut jokes, I think they are pointless.

 

I think Hendry works his butt off. But much like his use of the Cubs payroll and this team's offensive philosophy, I think he's terribly inefficient at his job, working too hard for the results he gets (or should I say getting much worse results than what his work ethic should achieve), spending too much for the production he acquires.

 

I do question Andy's level of "trying". He's all about "competing within the division", and I think that hampers Jim to a degree. But he can still work within those parameters to field a better team than he has so far.

 

One thing I will agree with you on: We should have a better team for 100 million dollars.

 

I'm just scared JH is gonna have 30 milion to spend and no one to spend it on, and he's gonna throw it at some crap player because he knows he can't go into this year after losing season with a 70 million dollar payroll.

 

I'd rather he waste money on contract renogotiations, Bradley, giving money to the Nats for Wilkerson etc. than on come crappy FA he feels like he HAS to spend money on.

[goonys evil twin]

This is the key. Hendry has brought in great players and Dusty's managed to screw it up. It's pretty simple actually. He would have fired him before this year, but that's another $4 million for a new manager and that money has to come from his budget to get new talent.

 

He hired Baker, and hitched his wagon to him, that's his own fault.

 

And I completely disagree that he brought in great players. He started the 2005 season with an absolute joke of an OF. Baker made things worse, but Hendry didn't give him much to start with.

[badger1679666666]

This is the key. Hendry has brought in great players and Dusty's managed to screw it up. It's pretty simple actually. He would have fired him before this year, but that's another $4 million for a new manager and that money has to come from his budget to get new talent.

 

He hired Baker, and hitched his wagon to him, that's his own fault.

 

And I completely disagree that he brought in great players. He started the 2005 season with an absolute joke of an OF. Baker made things worse, but Hendry didn't give him much to start with.

 

In all fairness to JH, he didn't have much of a choice last offseason but to wait untili Sosa was gone. Then again he might have created that monster by devaluing him so much.

[fromthestretch]

I would make a great SP, better than Roger Clemens. I just don't feel like spending the 10 years working my butt off to lift weights, train, and get good. But I could if I wanted to, prove me wrong.

 

Entirely different and pointless comparison. Being a Hall of Fame pitcher takes an extremely rare god given ability.

Being a decent GM does not.

 

How could you begin to even know that? Do you work in major sports? Have you researched it? Is it your best guess based on 'a lot of stuff you've heard over the years'?

 

Just to be clear, are you claiming that being a GM requires some sort of talent you're born with? If so, I respectfully disagree.

 

I think the toughest part of the job (outside of getting the job) is the relationship building. You have to build relationships with GMs of other teams, with agents, and to an extent, with players.

[JeffH]

I think the toughest part of the job (outside of getting the job) is the relationship building. You have to build relationships with GMs of other teams, with agents, and to an extent, with players.

 

That ought to eliminate pretty much everyone here.

[ThePenguin11]

I think the toughest part of the job (outside of getting the job) is the relationship building. You have to build relationships with GMs of other teams, with agents, and to an extent, with players.

 

That ought to eliminate pretty much everyone here.

 

Relationship building? That's all? Whatever.

[fromthestretch]

I think the toughest part of the job (outside of getting the job) is the relationship building. You have to build relationships with GMs of other teams, with agents, and to an extent, with players.

 

That ought to eliminate pretty much everyone here.

 

I do have to laugh at that. :lol:

 

That's good.

 

EDIT: To add to my original post, you also have to build relationships with certain members of the media, considering this a job that can be very public.

[fromthestretch]

I think the toughest part of the job (outside of getting the job) is the relationship building. You have to build relationships with GMs of other teams, with agents, and to an extent, with players.

 

That ought to eliminate pretty much everyone here.

 

Relationship building? That's all? Whatever.

 

Wow. Way to not read the whole post. I applaud you.

 

As I said, I think that is the toughest part. I never said that is the only part. Outside of that, most of it is probably very similar to normal business management. To be a GM, you have to be able to manage different facets of the business: scouting, player developement, coaching, accounting (despite what is said by those who think baseball teams don't have a budget), media/public relations, etc. Obviously, GMs have people working for them that head-up those different areas, but the GMs have to manage the whole process.

[CubbieRich]

Baseball is like most businesses, you won't get rich-unless you get to the top of the pyramid for your position. Or unless you are Joe Buck whose old man got him his job with one year of experience. Many people work in baseball because they love it. If you are young and already have a position that you love, pays you more than you need and you didn't have to pay your dues-congrats. You are one of the lucky ones.

 

I have met J.P. Ricardi of the Jays a few times and he seems to really enjoy what he does. He is very outgoing and great attitude. I wish that Jim Hendry would be a little more outgoing and make himself accessible to the fans more than he does. He seems to be in the same class of reserved, laid back personalities as Jocketty, Cashman, etc.. I don't know if Theo Epstein was outgoing when he was with the Red Sox, but he has an inner confidence that's hard to miss.

[fromthestretch]

Baseball is like most businesses, you won't get rich-unless you get to the top of the pyramid for your position. Or unless you are Joe Buck whose old man got him his job with one year of experience. Many people work in baseball because they love it. If you are young and already have a position that you love, pays you more than you need and you didn't have to pay your dues-congrats. You are one of the lucky ones.

 

I have met J.P. Ricardi of the Jays a few times and he seems to really enjoy what he does. He is very outgoing and great attitude. I wish that Jim Hendry would be a little more outgoing and make himself accessible to the fans more than he does. He seems to be in the same class of reserved, laid back personalities as Jocketty, Cashman, etc.. I don't know if Theo Epstein was outgoing when he was with the Red Sox, but he has an inner confidence that's hard to miss.

 

Most jobs in athletics are similar in that to get to the top, you're going to spend several years working very long hours for minimal pay. Even if you do love the job, it's tough to do if you have a family to support. Sports broadcasting is the same way, unless your last name is Buck (as you mentioned), Caray, or Brenneman. A lot of it is timing and who you know.

[bleedcubbieblue]

"In all fairness to JH, he didn't have much of a choice last offseason but to wait untili Sosa was gone. Then again he might have created that monster by devaluing him so much."

 

Can I ask why you feel that way? While I understand that JH answers to the Cubune, there was no reason why they could not spend more, they just chose not to. Fans, for whatever reason, do not put pressure on the organization to spend more, and when the Cubune says it needs to be fiscally responsible, there are a good portion of fans that buy into that theory. Yes, they spent a lot of money on payroll last season, but it was that high because of mistakes made by them, but unlike the Yankees that throw more money at the problem areas, they get the propaganda otherwise known as the Cubune and tell the fans that JH is doing everything possible to correct the situation, only I ask, what did he really do except say, he had no moves. Then we were told, but at least now we have the money to spend at the all star break to pick up the pieces needed, except there was no pieces to be had.

 

I look at it this way, the Cubune, after this last season was over, which, in my opinion, did very little to upgrade the team from the previous year, and if fact, weakened the team last off season, came out after this season was over, and increased ticket prices, just because they can. While it is still to be determined what the final payroll will be, it certainly is looking a lot like last off season. Plus, supposedly, they have set payroll at the same figure as last year, which was 100, although no where close to that figure of ACTUAL player in uniform. So I guess I wonder why, when seating capacity in the bleachers will be increased by 1800 a game, along with a pretty heafty payroll increase, why payroll is not being increased for this upcoming season.

 

While I think Marriotti on a whole, is not so bright, he is correct when he says for the Cubune, it is all about the bottom line. The difference is that they spin it so that it seems like they are doing everything possible, but in fact, it is all wasted breath and printed words. Than it keeps the masses coming back for more.

 

BCB

[badger1679666666]

"In all fairness to JH, he didn't have much of a choice last offseason but to wait untili Sosa was gone. Then again he might have created that monster by devaluing him so much."

 

Can I ask why you feel that way? While I understand that JH answers to the Cubune, there was no reason why they could not spend more, they just chose not to. Fans, for whatever reason, do not put pressure on the organization to spend more, and when the Cubune says it needs to be fiscally responsible, there are a good portion of fans that buy into that theory. Yes, they spent a lot of money on payroll last season, but it was that high because of mistakes made by them, but unlike the Yankees that throw more money at the problem areas, they get the propaganda otherwise known as the Cubune and tell the fans that JH is doing everything possible to correct the situation, only I ask, what did he really do except say, he had no moves. Then we were told, but at least now we have the money to spend at the all star break to pick up the pieces needed, except there was no pieces to be had.

 

I look at it this way, the Cubune, after this last season was over, which, in my opinion, did very little to upgrade the team from the previous year, and if fact, weakened the team last off season, came out after this season was over, and increased ticket prices, just because they can. While it is still to be determined what the final payroll will be, it certainly is looking a lot like last off season. Plus, supposedly, they have set payroll at the same figure as last year, which was 100, although no where close to that figure of ACTUAL player in uniform. So I guess I wonder why, when seating capacity in the bleachers will be increased by 1800 a game, along with a pretty heafty payroll increase, why payroll is not being increased for this upcoming season.

 

While I think Marriotti on a whole, is not so bright, he is correct when he says for the Cubune, it is all about the bottom line. The difference is that they spin it so that it seems like they are doing everything possible, but in fact, it is all wasted breath and printed words. Than it keeps the masses coming back for more.

 

BCB

 

He has a budget that he doesn't set himself. IMO, though some on here will differ, he couldn't do anything until he got rid of Sosa (hence the handcuffs). By the time that happened, no one but Burnitz and Ordonez were left for RF. He passed on many FA closers (thankfully) who all got injured, HE couldn't go after stud FA, because of Sammy's payroll.

 

He created the difficulty in trading Sosa by devaluing him though, which is his fault.

 

Make more sense?

[goonys evil twin]

fiscal responsibility isn't a theory

 

 

Spending more won't solve the problems if the Cubs keep spending the way they have for years. It's the inefficient use of the payroll that hurts much more than the supposedly underfunded payroll.

[fromthestretch]

"In all fairness to JH, he didn't have much of a choice last offseason but to wait untili Sosa was gone. Then again he might have created that monster by devaluing him so much."

 

Can I ask why you feel that way? While I understand that JH answers to the Cubune, there was no reason why they could not spend more, they just chose not to. Fans, for whatever reason, do not put pressure on the organization to spend more, and when the Cubune says it needs to be fiscally responsible, there are a good portion of fans that buy into that theory. Yes, they spent a lot of money on payroll last season, but it was that high because of mistakes made by them, but unlike the Yankees that throw more money at the problem areas, they get the propaganda otherwise known as the Cubune and tell the fans that JH is doing everything possible to correct the situation, only I ask, what did he really do except say, he had no moves. Then we were told, but at least now we have the money to spend at the all star break to pick up the pieces needed, except there was no pieces to be had.

 

I look at it this way, the Cubune, after this last season was over, which, in my opinion, did very little to upgrade the team from the previous year, and if fact, weakened the team last off season, came out after this season was over, and increased ticket prices, just because they can. While it is still to be determined what the final payroll will be, it certainly is looking a lot like last off season. Plus, supposedly, they have set payroll at the same figure as last year, which was 100, although no where close to that figure of ACTUAL player in uniform. So I guess I wonder why, when seating capacity in the bleachers will be increased by 1800 a game, along with a pretty heafty payroll increase, why payroll is not being increased for this upcoming season.

 

While I think Marriotti on a whole, is not so bright, he is correct when he says for the Cubune, it is all about the bottom line. The difference is that they spin it so that it seems like they are doing everything possible, but in fact, it is all wasted breath and printed words. Than it keeps the masses coming back for more.

 

BCB

 

Not all Tribune money is Cub money.

 

Ignoring that though, throwing money more money at the roster isn't always a great solution. The Cubs are spending plenty of money. I'm not so sure they are spending it very wisely though.

[Connor McConnor]

"In all fairness to JH, he didn't have much of a choice last offseason but to wait untili Sosa was gone. Then again he might have created that monster by devaluing him so much."

 

Can I ask why you feel that way? While I understand that JH answers to the Cubune, there was no reason why they could not spend more, they just chose not to. Fans, for whatever reason, do not put pressure on the organization to spend more, and when the Cubune says it needs to be fiscally responsible, there are a good portion of fans that buy into that theory. Yes, they spent a lot of money on payroll last season, but it was that high because of mistakes made by them, but unlike the Yankees that throw more money at the problem areas, they get the propaganda otherwise known as the Cubune and tell the fans that JH is doing everything possible to correct the situation, only I ask, what did he really do except say, he had no moves. Then we were told, but at least now we have the money to spend at the all star break to pick up the pieces needed, except there was no pieces to be had.

 

I look at it this way, the Cubune, after this last season was over, which, in my opinion, did very little to upgrade the team from the previous year, and if fact, weakened the team last off season, came out after this season was over, and increased ticket prices, just because they can. While it is still to be determined what the final payroll will be, it certainly is looking a lot like last off season. Plus, supposedly, they have set payroll at the same figure as last year, which was 100, although no where close to that figure of ACTUAL player in uniform. So I guess I wonder why, when seating capacity in the bleachers will be increased by 1800 a game, along with a pretty heafty payroll increase, why payroll is not being increased for this upcoming season.

 

While I think Marriotti on a whole, is not so bright, he is correct when he says for the Cubune, it is all about the bottom line. The difference is that they spin it so that it seems like they are doing everything possible, but in fact, it is all wasted breath and printed words. Than it keeps the masses coming back for more.

 

BCB

 

Kind of overdoing the "cubune" thing arent ya? Sound very much like a White Sox fan. "The masses" are Cub fans mostly because they were raised that way....and we'd really like to see them win the stinking world series one of these years. Not because a media company owns the team or forces us to do anything. I get very little Cub information from the Tribune anymore. I doubt that most fans do. They (Tribune) spent enough money.....the team across town just won the World Series spending a lot less. It has nothing to do with ownership or the amount spent....they spend plenty.....its how its spent.

[JC]

fiscal responsibility isn't a theory

 

 

Spending more won't solve the problems if the Cubs keep spending the way they have for years. It's the inefficient use of the payroll that hurts much more than the supposedly underfunded payroll.

 

Exactly. And, the allocation of budgetary resources can be primarlily traced back to one person.