moorecg

Crappy Ronny with a triple and an RBI :D Crappy wind aided double..

Please do. :D

Crappy Ronny with a triple and an RBI :D

So I'm thinking...aside from It taking our 3rd or 4th best hitter out of the line up...and aside from putting a GOD AWFUL hitter in the lineup....and aside from putting a double play machine in the line up...won't a constant switching of the 2nd base spot also be a detriment to Ronny's development? Aren't you supposed to have a double play "combination" and then hopefully let them get to know each other? I can't imagine this is the textbook way to break in a young SS....aside from the hitting deficiencies.

While I would love to see it....does anyone think we'll actually see this staff for even one full time through the rotation this year? much less several turns through? Just curious if I'm the only one who doubts we'll see all 5 of those guys at the same time for any extended period of time.

And I'd disagree with this statement as well...I remember being unhappy with Corey last year for taking a big swing on the first pitch he saw...even though he did hit it out...I figured we were due for 4 more at bats with big swings at first pitches...and I was right.

Maybe one guy swinging at a first pitch isn't all that bad...but after one guy has seen one pitch and made an out, I hate to see the second guy swing at the first pitch...I also absolutely hate it when they swing at the first pitch on a new reliever....or a guy who has just walked a guy or two...I'm not sure how to get the stats...but I'd wager that there is a correlation between # of pitches seen per plate appearance and OBP. (Maybe I'm wrong...its a guess...but a good guess I'd think) And were all OBP fans right.

And we were worried Dusty would start him over Cedeno.... Just when you thought Dusty couldn't out stupid himself he goes and proves you wrong. And I also guess this means that the reports that Hairston was close to winning the 2nd base job in camp were vastly exagerated...he's 3rd on the depth chart. With Dusty's brilliance we could lose this series badly and never sniff first the entire season....I'd love to have a real manager...or a real pitching staff...jeeze...I'm still wondering how Glendon ended up being our #2 starter on a 100 mill team....I guess that doesn't puzzle me quite as much as not really having a #5 starter at all though....Good luck Neifi....hope you do well...its no use hoping Dusty will see the light as its been 2 years now so we might as well hope you somehow defy all odds and become serviceable. (Sorry...bit of a rant...can't help myself at this point)

I still don't understand how our young players are question marks while teams like the Brewers have all future stars. Murton looks like the real thing and Cedeno has been successful at every level. Jones makes too much money, but is an "adequate" OF. Murton does look like the real deal. I agree. However, Cedeno has not been successful at every level. Take a look at his stats: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/ronny-cedeno.shtml Cedeno got his butt kicking in A ball, put up a mediocre showing in AA, and got it together for 245 AB in AAA. His VWL was two sided. His D was shoddy (that's putting it nicely) and his K/BB ratio was in the toilet. Then he had 80 AB in the bigs. Nice, but even Dubois did well in the beginning. It's not just a Dustyism to say that pitchers don't have the book on him. Cedeno is in for a rough season b/c he doesn't have plate discipline. He carries his offensive woes into the field and we'll be seeing Neifi every day by the ASB. Our guys are question marks b/c our organization has a very poor track record of developing successful position players. The Braves are the extreme opposite. Murton is less of a question mark, given his skillset. Cedeno had one good year. One. In his first two years he was 18 and 19 years old...and playing in Boise and Lansing...last time I checked both of those places are a LONG way from Carabobo (cool name for a town) Venezuela for a kid just out of high school...He hit damn near .280 by the time he turned 21 in AA. These stats aren't doing anything to convince me that he's crap. Just an update. Ronny was a crappy 2 for 3 with another run scored. Like I said before, wait until the book is out on him. I'm glad you can throw out 2 years of baseball, but then cite 3 AB as proof of your argument. Convinced me. Totally. Did you even read the post before it? No wonder why there's so much bickering on this board. Obviously I did read it as I referenced the 2 years he was talking about. :wink: I'm glad you felt the need to call me out on something you were guilty of. Brilliant! You completely missed the point that he was a teenager in those 2 years, which I don't believe he was throwing out the years, just pointing out the facts. Then he referenced his AA year, where he hit near .280. So obviously, he wasn't using just 3 ABs. I'm pretty sure his numbers last year have been mentioned in this thread too. That's pretty much my point exactly Raw, I'm glad someone reads my posts...it makes me feel like actually thinking through his progression was worth the time...although I have a feeling "facts" aren't really going to sway this argument at this point. If you go all the way back and look at his first season he hit at or near .280 while in rookie ball in Venezuela...gets promoted to Lansing and Boise at a very young age...possibly doesn't even know the language (I'm just making an assumption here) and is in two places which aren't the most culturally diverse in the world so he may be feeling just a bit out of place...his 3rd year away from home he turns 21 and starts putting up pretty good numbers...those numbers have continued. And no...the 2-3 doesn't "prove" anything...it was, as it was described, an "update"

I take it you didn't watch any Mets games with Piazza behind the plate in the last few years. What the hell are you all talking about. There is only one. http://reds.enquirer.com/2002/06/26/redslarue_zoom.jpg Umm...Piazza has played a lot more than one game behind the plate in the last few years and I'm pretty sure no one's ever thought of giving him a gold glove.

An overreaction can't be something I've said for the past 3 seasons. I find it a little hard to understand how people can actually defend his Defensive abilities. Seriously. Do you actually watch the games? Amazing. Like I said, very good hitter but c'mon he is a TERRIBLE Catcher. This garbage is nothing new here. SO again, let's all just agree as a whole and move onto another topic we can easily disagree on and LEGITAMTELY debate, for example whether or not it's impossible for a team to win the Division with Jones hitting 5th in the order. Hey, I don't like his defense/game calling either, but he's the best we have. You don't want to see Blanco or Soto starting, do you? No, just for everyone on here who have defended his atrocious Catching abilities and actually think he's good behind the plate to swollow their pride (or pull their heads out of the as$es) and admit he is not only not good, he's plainly terrible. Have you been talking to the guy who says Cedeno is plainly Crap. You guys should meet.

I take it you didn't watch any Mets games with Piazza behind the plate in the last few years.

I still don't understand how our young players are question marks while teams like the Brewers have all future stars. Murton looks like the real thing and Cedeno has been successful at every level. Jones makes too much money, but is an "adequate" OF. Murton does look like the real deal. I agree. However, Cedeno has not been successful at every level. Take a look at his stats: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/ronny-cedeno.shtml Cedeno got his butt kicking in A ball, put up a mediocre showing in AA, and got it together for 245 AB in AAA. His VWL was two sided. His D was shoddy (that's putting it nicely) and his K/BB ratio was in the toilet. Then he had 80 AB in the bigs. Nice, but even Dubois did well in the beginning. It's not just a Dustyism to say that pitchers don't have the book on him. Cedeno is in for a rough season b/c he doesn't have plate discipline. He carries his offensive woes into the field and we'll be seeing Neifi every day by the ASB. Our guys are question marks b/c our organization has a very poor track record of developing successful position players. The Braves are the extreme opposite. Murton is less of a question mark, given his skillset. Cedeno had one good year. One. In his first two years he was 18 and 19 years old...and playing in Boise and Lansing...last time I checked both of those places are a LONG way from Carabobo (cool name for a town) Venezuela for a kid just out of high school...He hit damn near .280 by the time he turned 21 in AA. These stats aren't doing anything to convince me that he's crap. Just an update. Ronny was a crappy 2 for 3 with another run scored.

Barrett is not having a good day huh?

two one pitch outs....I love that.

I love Mabes

Looks like it's on XM 185 according to the XM schedule. Correct. They're on 185 today, and the whole Cardinal series will be on 186. Thank you both...much appreciated. I wish they would have the team names displayed on the mifi channels as opposed to MLB Play-by-Play...it would make skipping through games much easier!

Looks like it's on XM 185 according to the XM schedule. Correct. They're on 185 today, and the whole Cardinal series will be on 186. Thank you both...much appreciated.

anyone know what xm channel this is on today?

Gotta love a "down" year with an OPS of .918 I fully expect him to exceed all his career averages, well maybe not batting average. measurable drop offs in BB? BB by year in STL 103 93 86 77 101 91 (10th in MLB) RBI's? 3 less than ARam in 4 more AB. I would think a Cub fan of all people would realize RBI's are very dependent on OPPORTUNITY. Edmonds batted .302 with an OPS of 1.028 with runners on and .297 with an OPS of 1.008 with RISP. Power? yep, it was down but still was top 25 in the majors While he was 10th in the ML...it was about a 10% drop off. He was still GREAT in that catagory...don't get me wrong...but I consider 10% a little significant (although maybe its attributable to the fact that he didn't have Rolen behind him last year. He's a good player...but I think its fair to say that he's past his prime.

I still don't understand how our young players are question marks while teams like the Brewers have all future stars. Murton looks like the real thing and Cedeno has been successful at every level. Jones makes too much money, but is an "adequate" OF. Murton does look like the real deal. I agree. However, Cedeno has not been successful at every level. Take a look at his stats: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/ronny-cedeno.shtml Cedeno got his butt kicking in A ball, put up a mediocre showing in AA, and got it together for 245 AB in AAA. His VWL was two sided. His D was shoddy (that's putting it nicely) and his K/BB ratio was in the toilet. Then he had 80 AB in the bigs. Nice, but even Dubois did well in the beginning. It's not just a Dustyism to say that pitchers don't have the book on him. Cedeno is in for a rough season b/c he doesn't have plate discipline. He carries his offensive woes into the field and we'll be seeing Neifi every day by the ASB. Our guys are question marks b/c our organization has a very poor track record of developing successful position players. The Braves are the extreme opposite. Murton is less of a question mark, given his skillset. Cedeno had one good year. One. In his first two years he was 18 and 19 years old...and playing in Boise and Lansing...last time I checked both of those places are a LONG way from Carabobo (cool name for a town) Venezuela for a kid just out of high school...He hit damn near .280 by the time he turned 21 in AA. These stats aren't doing anything to convince me that he's crap.

Nope. I'm saying 3M/year (the difference in Furcal's salary and what we offered) is worth having Pinto, Nolasco, and Mitre in our system. Oh and the added bonus is that Pierre wouldn't be around to block Pie. Pierre does not suck, but the price we paid is too high, especially considering that moving Pie to a corner OF spot severely diminishes his offensive value. Murton is awesome. He won his spot fair and square. He has ridiculous plate discipline. Cedeno does not. Low batting average = low OBP for Cedeno. A younger Neifi. Sweet. I could care less about Cedeno's age. It's his skill set as of this moment that should/should not give him a starting job on a 100M club. He's not the SS of the future. Maybe he'll be a viable utility player. The offense just isn't there (based on his whole pro career, not just one fluke year split between 3 leagues where no one had the time to learn his holes). It may not be shocking to find out Cedeno suddenly learned to hit, but it's not something you gamble a starting role on a ballclub with, especially when your next option is Neifi Perez. I don't want Neifi out there. He should never sniff the starting SS role ever again, but b/c of poor offseason decisions, we're faced with that very real possibility. We'll see. I personaly think you're being WAY to hard on Cedeno considering what he's shown us so far. While I would have liked to have seen Furcal over there I think $13 mill a year was too high and I'm not upset with Hendry for not doing it. Pierre isn't blocking anyone just yet...there is no guarantee that we'll sign him to an extension and I think we place a different value on Pinto Nolasco and Mitre. Sergio got 18 starts with us over the past 3 years and didnt' exactly grab hold of the Job and I'm not sure if/when we could have ever expected Pinto and Nolasco to be in Chicago. I think giving Ronny this shot is a positive move by the Cubs. I'd much rather have Ronny than Neifi, or Alex Gonzalez or anyone of that ilk. Are there better SSs in the Bigs? Yes. But I think Ronny has more than earned the chance to be a starting SS and I'm glad the Cubs have given it to him.

One of my Cards friends and I were talking about him a couple of nights ago. He seems to think Jimmy will hit 320 with 35 HRs. I told him to expect 260 and maybe 20-25, so no, you are not alone. (By the way, he hit 263 last year) My bad...my eyes read his 06 line when I quoted his batting average. I think it is his contract year so that could play into it...but I just don't consider him to be on the upswing of his career.

Does anyone else expect another fairly down year from Edmonds...I just don't expect him to be at his career numbers. He turns 36 in June...hit only .250 last year (Still great OBP) and had measurable drop offs in Power, RBI and BB #s last year. He'll still likely be the best out of the 6 or 7 we're talking about...But I don't think that its "completely" unrealistic to think that Murton could close a big part of the gap

Yes. At least wait for him to suck for a few weeks first. He hasn't proven anything, that he sucks included. He still needs some time, but the early results aren't good. I know everyone wants our prospects to succeed, but Ronny looks absolutely overmatched at the plate. I just hope he can play great defense for the time being. So he had a bad Spring training....I think there are many on this board who will tell you ST means nothing... Aside from that...he hit .300 in 40 games last year at age 22 And aside from that, I'm pretty sure he led the fall league (or winterball I can't remember) in hitting last year. Not to mention that he did get a hit and score a run yesterday. Now I don't think anyone is saying he's the next coming of A-Rod, but I just can't see how someone would come up with him being "crap" and that the "early results aren't good"....From what I can tell the early results are GREAT, but we've got a ways to go before they mean he's going to be a great SS. Please tell me where I'm wrong on thinking this way. He had one good year offensively...out of the 6 he spent in our system. So no, it's not too early to label him as "crap." He had a hot year, nothing more. His defense tanked in the process (how many errors did he have in VWL?), so it's not like he just completely turned his game around. Ronny shouldn't have been rushed to the big leagues. He does not deserve a starting job in Chicago based on one good year. If we had gotten Furcal like Plan A dictated, Ronny would have split time with Hairston and Neifi, assuming that Walker would get traded. That would limit the offensive damage he's going to cause to this team...especially when Neifi freaking Perez starts to look good in comparison. The man is 23 freakin years old. Has he really been in our system for 6 years? and Regardless...he's 23 freakin years old....I don't think it would be shocking to say he started to learn to hit professional pitching at age 22. I don't know your background re: whether your a big proponent of giving the young kids a chance or what your mo is regarding the situation...but I think most would agree that while we would have liked to have had Furcal, that money was insane and Ronny was a good option. Are you seriously saying that you'd rather have Neifi out there? Ronny is so young I'd say its darn near impossible to tell what kind of player he will ultimatly become, but given his performance I also think its WAY to early to lable him "crap." Now Neifi..at age 32...you can call him crap if you'd like. But to give Ronny that label is just crazy talk.