kente777

Just what I predicted yesterday. :) I also predict that Cubs fans will greet Z with a standing "O" when he next takes the mound.

Just what I predicted yesterday. :)

This is untrue. If I am Pedro Martinez and it's the offseason between 1999 and 2000, and I say I predict I will win the CYA, does that make me an idiot or arrogant? That makes me betting on the odds. But this is a tangent but there are a few cases where predicting a CYA for yourself isn't idiotic. I don't have a problem with that comment. It came off wrong, but it seemed to me like that was his goal. Frankly, I'd rather his goal be to win the CYA than make the playoffs, because of he does the first the second would come. No, because Pedro usually backs it up. It's one thing to say, "My goal is to win the Cy Young" it's another to say, "This year I'm gonna win the Cy Young." Great athletes don't have to say crap like that to prove they're great. They just go out and do it. Carlos is not great. Never has been. Will he be in the future? Not unless he learns to focus and control his emotions.

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational. you've been villifying him from your very first post. And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that. We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans. I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless. So was his performence... hahahahaha. that's a good one. yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday. I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple. As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l More times then not it's not about Z having good stuff. It's about him losing his concentration and composure on the mound. Then booing him would be even MORE counterproductive. It would rattle him even more. Put it this way. If this rattles him, I would hate to see him in the World Series. Like someone else said early, I think Z saw the fans almost like his teammates. He wanted nothing more than to stay in Chicago, and he took a paycut to do so (Mets, yanks, Bo Sox would have given him more money for sure). So what happened yesterday was sobering for him. Maybe he won't be disillusioned anymore I guess. I don't think pressure rattles him, I think he felt betrayed by "family". Right now the fans want a World Series winner more than "loving Zambrano as a member of the family." The world does not revolve around Carlos. Oh, hey guys....Carlos said he's gonna win the Cy Young so let's just play really really good when he pitches so we can make that a reality. Stop thinking about yourself, Carlos. This whole "family" thing is a bunch of baloney. Maybe in the 70's when the Cubs were terrible....maybe then. But not now. The city wants a winner. And then he says that when he's pitching well, he will remember the boo'ing. What the hell does that supposed to mean? Again, shut up and pitch.

Holy jesus the irony is frightening. He's mortal. Yeah, and one hell of an arrogant one. Actually, let me add an idiot as well. Anyone who predicts he will be the Cy Young winner is arrogant and an idiot.

Holy jesus the irony is frightening. He's mortal. Yeah, and one hell of an arrogant one.

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational. you've been villifying him from your very first post. And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that. We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans. I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless. So was his performence... hahahahaha. that's a good one. yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday. I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple. As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l More times then not it's not about Z having good stuff. It's about him losing his concentration and composure on the mound. Then booing him would be even MORE counterproductive. It would rattle him even more. Put it this way. If this rattles him, I would hate to see him in the World Series. Don't worry...you won't.

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad. So what, he's not allowed to have a down season. Are you turning into Dan Duquette on us? (I doubt you even get that reference) Pitchers have down years. Pitchers have down months. Zambrano is human. You mean, Mr. "I'm gonna win the Cy Young award" Zambrano? You mean Mr. Point to the sky when he goes to the dugout??? I didn't see him pointing to the sky when he was taken out. The guy thinks he's better than everyone else. That might be human, but it's also arrogant and presumptious. I'm sick of his mouth. Just shut the hell up and pitch the damn baseball.

The fans have every right to boo. They paid the ticket. They have no right to throw stuff on the field. They have no right to punch out the fan in front of them. But they have every right to boo. Done are the days of coming to the old ball park and smiling when your team gets slaughtered 12-1. What the fans did yesterday is nothing compared to what other cities do. The fans are sick and tired of 99 years of mediocrity. I'm not a boo'er.....never have been. But I would say absolutely nothing to the fan next to me for booing. Carlos, suck it up and be a man. Stop pitching horrible and making stupid blunders and the fans won't boo you.

I agree he was wrong to say what he did but the booing is getting ridiculous. Z is a bit of a spoiled baby, but a lot of these fans are irrational. The team has a bad inning or a pitcher has a bad game and they are booing? It doesn't look like a knowledgeable fan base when they boo or throw stuff on the field whenever things go bad. The crowd reaction is like the way it is in game threads. Suicide alert whenever the Cubs are losing and cloud 9 when they are winning. 162 game seasons have high and low points and supporting your team seems a lot more constructive then booing them whenever they fail. Fans have a right to boo. They pay the salaries of the players. They boo'ed Z because he has sucked for over a month, not because he sucked today. It's Z's job to ignore the boos and do what is required of him. If he does that, the boos will turn to cheers. I know this booing argument has been done before so I don't want to beat that dead horse, but what are they booing? To me the reason I would ever boo a player that is on a team I root for is lack of effort. Does anyone doubt Z wants to win as much or more than anyone on that field or in the stands? If so, then is he getting booed because he is not good? Has there ever been a case of a bad player suddenly becoming good because he was booed and realized he should play well instead? Clearly Z has an issue with his mechanics or something else that is causing his effectiveness to drop. I think he gets that, but it would be nice for the fans to take the approach of "hey, we are behind you Z, we have faith that you get it together and help us win" instead of "you suck, you better do better next time or we will boo you and call you bad names". It just does not make sense to me. The bottom line is THE FANS BUY THE TICKETS...they can boo if they want to. I don't care if you or I disagree with it. It is their right. All players get boo'ed. Wrigley is a lot less hostile than New York or Boston or Philadelphia. If I go to a game and I want to boo, it is my right. Period! And the players have every right to comment on the booing. Yep, they do. But a player does that at his own risk. You want the fans on your side. If you don't think so, ask Latroy Hawkins. Carlos will apologize because he knows that is the right thing to do.

I agree he was wrong to say what he did but the booing is getting ridiculous. Z is a bit of a spoiled baby, but a lot of these fans are irrational. The team has a bad inning or a pitcher has a bad game and they are booing? It doesn't look like a knowledgeable fan base when they boo or throw stuff on the field whenever things go bad. The crowd reaction is like the way it is in game threads. Suicide alert whenever the Cubs are losing and cloud 9 when they are winning. 162 game seasons have high and low points and supporting your team seems a lot more constructive then booing them whenever they fail. Fans have a right to boo. They pay the salaries of the players. They boo'ed Z because he has sucked for over a month, not because he sucked today. It's Z's job to ignore the boos and do what is required of him. If he does that, the boos will turn to cheers. I know this booing argument has been done before so I don't want to beat that dead horse, but what are they booing? To me the reason I would ever boo a player that is on a team I root for is lack of effort. Does anyone doubt Z wants to win as much or more than anyone on that field or in the stands? If so, then is he getting booed because he is not good? Has there ever been a case of a bad player suddenly becoming good because he was booed and realized he should play well instead? Clearly Z has an issue with his mechanics or something else that is causing his effectiveness to drop. I think he gets that, but it would be nice for the fans to take the approach of "hey, we are behind you Z, we have faith that you get it together and help us win" instead of "you suck, you better do better next time or we will boo you and call you bad names". It just does not make sense to me. I think today's running the stop sign, in addition to his non-stop overthrowing and overswinging, is showing that he views himself as bigger than the rest of the team. I'll back off the grow up angle a bit, but the religious man could use a little humility. Amen, brother!!

I agree he was wrong to say what he did but the booing is getting ridiculous. Z is a bit of a spoiled baby, but a lot of these fans are irrational. The team has a bad inning or a pitcher has a bad game and they are booing? It doesn't look like a knowledgeable fan base when they boo or throw stuff on the field whenever things go bad. The crowd reaction is like the way it is in game threads. Suicide alert whenever the Cubs are losing and cloud 9 when they are winning. 162 game seasons have high and low points and supporting your team seems a lot more constructive then booing them whenever they fail. Fans have a right to boo. They pay the salaries of the players. They boo'ed Z because he has sucked for over a month, not because he sucked today. It's Z's job to ignore the boos and do what is required of him. If he does that, the boos will turn to cheers. I know this booing argument has been done before so I don't want to beat that dead horse, but what are they booing? To me the reason I would ever boo a player that is on a team I root for is lack of effort. Does anyone doubt Z wants to win as much or more than anyone on that field or in the stands? If so, then is he getting booed because he is not good? Has there ever been a case of a bad player suddenly becoming good because he was booed and realized he should play well instead? Clearly Z has an issue with his mechanics or something else that is causing his effectiveness to drop. I think he gets that, but it would be nice for the fans to take the approach of "hey, we are behind you Z, we have faith that you get it together and help us win" instead of "you suck, you better do better next time or we will boo you and call you bad names". It just does not make sense to me. The bottom line is THE FANS BUY THE TICKETS...they can boo if they want to. I don't care if you or I disagree with it. It is their right. All players get boo'ed. Wrigley is a lot less hostile than New York or Boston or Philadelphia. If I go to a game and I want to boo, it is my right. Period!

But it's not a bad game. It's several bad games in a row, over a month straight now. There's a difference. Everybody has a bad game now and then, but an ace can't suck continuously for so long (especially when he already had such a streak early in the season). Exactly! Pitch well, you won't get boo'ed. Any player who whines about the booing is simply immature. Look in the mirror "Z."

I agree he was wrong to say what he did but the booing is getting ridiculous. Z is a bit of a spoiled baby, but a lot of these fans are irrational. The team has a bad inning or a pitcher has a bad game and they are booing? It doesn't look like a knowledgeable fan base when they boo or throw stuff on the field whenever things go bad. The crowd reaction is like the way it is in game threads. Suicide alert whenever the Cubs are losing and cloud 9 when they are winning. 162 game seasons have high and low points and supporting your team seems a lot more constructive then booing them whenever they fail. Fans have a right to boo. They pay the salaries of the players. They boo'ed Z because he has sucked for over a month, not because he sucked today. It's Z's job to ignore the boos and do what is required of him. If he does that, the boos will turn to cheers.

It's one thing to be emotional, it's another to let your emotions get to you. Unfort., his amped mental state often brings out the worst in him. He just lacks composure out there. Maybe he didn't actually see the game. I watched the game, and Carlos very clearly came undone. He was lights out in the first 3 innings, pulled a boneheaded move on the basepaths and proceeded to allow that to affect his performance on the mound. He actually lucked out in the 4th with that strike 'em out, throw 'em out double play. Why did Gonzalez just stand there on that pitch? Right down broadway with Jeff Kent running? He definitely needs to get his head right when he steps on that mound. I would argue that he wasn't lights out in the first 3 innings. He was constantly getting behind batters even in the first few innings. As a MLB pitcher, you have to get ahead in your counts. You just have to. Failure to do so will always bite you in your arse. The reason why Maddux has been so sucessful, among several things, has been his ability to get ahead in the count. Look at the number of walks he has in his career. Control is the key. Carlos has terrible control for a so-called Ace.

10 bucks says he will apologize tomorrow. And believe me, when he does, it won't be his idea.

The Trib doesnt have the article up yet, but I explained a little more in another post. When the article comes out Ill post it. But he doesnt think he deserves to be bood. i see that now. i was sure he was just saying he heard the fans and knew that he sucked, this just blows me away. i guess it's time to start the move to run him out of town, should be fun Right after signing? Oh God, this could really start to suck. things could get really hilariously bad pretty easily. everything will be cool if zambrano can avoid sucking for a little while, but if he has a couple more bad starts and keeps getting booed, who knows what will happen. I'd expect a Lou forced/written apology tomorrow before the game. Mentioning how he's disappointed in how he's pitched the last month, how he plans on turning things around and making the fans cheer for him. And I absolutely can not believe that Piniella didn't talk to him after that and coach him on how to deal with the media after the game. Crazy. I expect you're right. He's got to do that or the fans will only get worse.

The Trib doesnt have the article up yet, but I explained a little more in another post. When the article comes out Ill post it. But he doesnt think he deserves to be bood. i see that now. i was sure he was just saying he heard the fans and knew that he sucked, this just blows me away. i guess it's time to start the move to run him out of town, should be fun Right after signing? Oh God, this could really start to suck. I expect in the next few days, you will see a more "repentant" Zambrano, and he will say that he really has been pitching bad, and the fans in Chicago are great. If he doesn't, it will be a very very long 5 years. He is one arrogant SOB. Ken

I do believe he'll get through this. Though I really think Lou needs to have a heart to heart talk with "Z" and let him know he has to start earning his money. thankfully, we are in a division that sucks, but I want more than a Central Division title....I want a World Series appearance, and for that, we are going to need a dominant "Z." We won't make it without him.

I wouldn't call walking a ton of batters antics. I'd call it bad control. I'm more concerned with that. I think it's more being a complete headcase which leads to many of the walks. The guy just can't control his emotions. This a phase, and I believe it will pass. That being said, I was against the 91 million dollar contract from the get go. He is not worth that. He may be considered our "Ace," but he certainly is not. I think he has the worst ERA of all our starters now. Personally, I don't think we will ever see "Z" put together a great season from beginning to end. You may never see him win 19 or 20 games in his career.

Rot in hell? Wow, how classy of you. Pathetic. No worry...there's no such thing as hell anyway. But, yeah....pretty pathetic. Yeah, let's go. Anyone else want to pile on while we're at it? Like you two have never overreacted in your lives before and have never said anything stupid. I'm sorry I didn't live up to your expectations. READ THE THREAD. IT WAS AN OVERREACTION AND I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID IT!!! Holy Christ. EDIT: And before the mods say anything, I won't respond to anymore comments about this. It's over. No offense, man. We've all been there.

Rot in hell? Wow, how classy of you. Pathetic. No worry...there's no such thing as hell anyway. But, yeah....pretty pathetic.

Maybe he can donate half of this year's salary so some needy kids can benefit from his pathetic pitching.

yeah, and he looked great doing it too, don't ya think?

I would much rather he be up now I'm speaking of him coming back in the 5th to throw. :(