kente777

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging. I absolutely disagree. If there are less than two outs and runners on base, you get the ball in quickly. That is fundamental baseball -- the kind of stuff you learn in Little League. You don't need the infielders to tell you that. I said "some of the blame," not all. I never said Pagan wasn't without blame. But as an infielder, if you see the runner hustling back to tag up, you sure as hell should be yelling to the outfield. That's also fundamental baseball. Of course, Pagan should be aware of who was on first, and he should have been ready to throw the ball in quickly. If it's true that Lee was yelling, then the blame does fall squarely on Pagan's shoulders. I respect your opinion, but simply disagree. The infielders have no play at all on this. Even if Lee doesn't shout to Pagan, less than 2 outs, man on base....you get the ball in and you get it in quickly. Again, fundamentals. You know who's on, and you know how many outs there are. Castillo was on and he's fast.....Pagan should have known this. Instead of throwing the ball in quickly to second, regardless of the infielders yelling or not, he decided to lob the ball in. This is a huge mental error and I'm sure he got his butt chewed by Lou. Now if Pagan had gotten the ball in quickly and the infielders were standing around picking their nose, then yeah, I blame them. You basically just repeated what I said (see bolded part). To say the infielders have no play at all on this is wrong. With runners on base, infielders need to let the outfielders know what's going on with the runners, so the outfielder can concentrate on fielding the ball instead of watching two things at once. I'm not denying the fact that he should have been ready to throw as soon as he caught that ball. But maybe, just maybe, if he hears someone yelling about the runner tagging up, he does come up throwing. Also, I wouldn't say he lobbed the ball in. He took his time but fired it in once he realized the runner tagged up. Unfortunately, he realized it too late. I'm not trying to defend Pagan here, because he sure as hell screwed up enough times last night. His intent was to lob it in. And you put the responsibility (albeit part of it) of knowing who's on base to the infielders. I put it squarely on the shoulders of Pagan. In the case last night, it absolutely doesn't matter what the infielders do. Pagan screwed up, not the infielders. So let's say they don't yell anything to Pagan....does that matter? Does it? Who caught the ball? Who's supposed to throw it in? Does a center fielder need the infielders to tell him there are less than two outs with a fast runner on base? If he does, then we have a serious problem....something that maybe the Minors can fix. The only way I blame the infield is if when he threw it in, they weren't ready. I like the way he hustles when he hits a weak ground ball, but his hustle in the field sucks. P.S. This is one of the things that really, really irk me about Major League players today. They are overpaid and much more lazy than in the olden days. I haven't had a chance to listen to Pat and Ron a lot because I live in Florida, but I'm sure Ron would absolutely agree with -- and maybe he's even voiced that.

I think it's about time he get the call. I was really unsure because he has been struggling with Major League pitching, but seeing our pathetic center fielder, I am ready. And hey, while we're at it, let's move Kendall to back up with Soto as starter. He certainly can't do much worse.

That was absolutely the only positive thing from last night's game.

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging. I absolutely disagree. If there are less than two outs and runners on base, you get the ball in quickly. That is fundamental baseball -- the kind of stuff you learn in Little League. You don't need the infielders to tell you that. I said "some of the blame," not all. I never said Pagan wasn't without blame. But as an infielder, if you see the runner hustling back to tag up, you sure as hell should be yelling to the outfield. That's also fundamental baseball. Of course, Pagan should be aware of who was on first, and he should have been ready to throw the ball in quickly. If it's true that Lee was yelling, then the blame does fall squarely on Pagan's shoulders. I respect your opinion, but simply disagree. The infielders have no play at all on this. Even if Lee doesn't shout to Pagan, less than 2 outs, man on base....you get the ball in and you get it in quickly. Again, fundamentals. You know who's on, and you know how many outs there are. Castillo was on and he's fast.....Pagan should have known this. Instead of throwing the ball in quickly to second, regardless of the infielders yelling or not, he decided to lob the ball in. This is a huge mental error and I'm sure he got his butt chewed by Lou. Now if Pagan had gotten the ball in quickly and the infielders were standing around picking their nose, then yeah, I blame them.

Which is the real Cubs? The team that started the first two months of the season....the team since June 3rd....or a combo of the two. With Soriano hurt, I'd really be surprised if we do much better than .500 baseball. I don't think we got better with Kendall as his defense appears to be just as bad as Barrett's. Thoughts?

Not only is he not a good ballplayer, but he's also a very dumb ballplayer. He's forgotten how many outs there were at least 3 times this season. That's just unacceptable. He's hit a couple of key homeruns, but that's basically all he's been worth this season. You'd think with his speed that he would be above-average defensively, but he's pretty crappy in the field. He should be used as the 25th man on the team at most. Lou seems to be pretty smart about when to sit a player. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a change in the next few days.

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging. I absolutely disagree. If there are less than two outs and runners on base, you get the ball in quickly. That is fundamental baseball -- the kind of stuff you learn in Little League. You don't need the infielders to tell you that.

I'm sure Lou is well aware of the blunders last night. He will not tolerate that type of play and will bench Pagan if it continues. I, for one, am ready for the change.

Well, I will say one thing....even though I want the Cubs to win, Glavine is a classy guy and deserves the standing O.

lol...let's just hope he's like the "ghost of Christmas past" and changes the Cubs (like Scrooge)

You did know this was coming, didn't you. ESPN...Glavine at 299....I knew that's all it would be.

League average for NL starting pitchers is 4.51. League average for starting AL pitchers is 4.64. Only two NL teams have team starter ERA's under 4. There are also only 44 qualified starting pitchers in the majors who have an ERA under 4 - 23 in the NL and 21 in the AL. So by your estimation, a majority of the starting pitchers in the majors aren't good. Sorry, I won't try to rationalize the pi** poor pitching of Marquis.

You're right, two up, two down. He's ready to break.

It's not nonsense. He's the 5th best starter on this team. It's silly to compare him to other team's aces and such. It makes sense to see how he performs compared to other team's 5th starters. And he performs very well. Better than every other team's 5th starter. He's doing his job. What?? "He's doing his job"?? What's his job? To pitch us out of games? To give up 4 runs in 5 IP? He's sucked the past 2 months. He's the "5th starter" because he's easily the worst on our staff. He's making too much money to have a above 5 ERA. Seriously, why do you continue to say that? It's a flat out lie. If you're not going to be truthful, I'm not going to waste time talking to you. what the hell is the matter with you? june -- 5.09 era july -- 6.29 august -- 4 runs and counting in 5 innings. who's lying? What the hell is the matter with you man? He has had good outtings and bad ones. Half good, half bad. That doesn't mean he's been awful. Look at his freaking game log. Try and have someone read it to you if you still don't understand. He's given you the stats and you still can't admit that Marquis sucks. Last I heard a 4 plus ERA is not very good, let alone a 5 and 6 plus.

Yeah, aside from the fact that he hasn't. Damn it DeRosa, what the hell What was his July ERA again? 6? Yeah, he's awesome. Look at his game log. He hasn't been as bad as you make him out to be. As I said in another thread, he's the best 5th starter in baseball too. You're right, I was wrong. He's been bad for 9 weeks. His June ERA was over 5 and his July ERA was over 6. Yeah, great, he can mix in one good start amidst 3 godawful ones. We should be lucky we have him for 3 years. 3 of his last 6 starts have been quality. No 5th starter in baseball has a better ERA than Marquis. Keep the hyperbole coming. Come on, Mizzou. "5th starter" is nonsense. That's a cherry picked fact. He's a bad starter. No contending team should have a 5th starter who pitches with an ERA above 5 for 2 straight months. You know better that that. He had a very good April and a decent May. He's fallen off a cliff since. This isn't my argument but I have to step in because Marquis hasn't been that bad overall. Look no further than the Brewers rotation and you'll see guys who have been more inconsistent. Marquis', arguably, the Cubs least dependable starter yet he hasn't been so bad that the Cubs are blown out every time he pitches. This wouldn't be an issue if the Cubs had scored some runs tonight. Hell, I'm still not ready to concede this game (although, Eyre could make this a moot point). The Brewers have a great offense, we don't. If we try and crap our rotation down to theirs, someone will win this division by 5 games. Exactly...all our pitching has to do is come back to earth and we are toast.

I don't think we're that good. Sorry, just my opinion. Our hot streak is now over....we'll see how this team responds.

KENDALL SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yep, i agree.

Maybe because he's not fully ready for the Big Leagues. Give Kendall a break. yeah, just give the cubs a break too. who cares if they haven't won a world series in 100 years...give them a break. Hey, any team can have a bad century once in a while.

It's the way the Cubs are losing. Left-handed pitcher....you might as well chalk up a loss.

haven't heard anyone say five games. in fact, I think just about everyone here thinks we have holes -- look at the game threads :) Yep, I've heard it on this board. I have serious doubts. Marquis absolutely sucks. Kendall, well...nuff said. Pagan is pathetic. And our offense, no power. Continued lack of patience. Can't hit left-handed pitching. We're a playoff team? LOL We're four months into the season and these players have carried us to a 58-51 record. And we're in a weak division. We ARE NOT a lock for the playoffs -- and I really don't see anyone here saying that -- But we also don't deserve a "LOL" in regards to playoff chances. Well, that's the way I feel about the Cubs tonight. Aside from the one inning yesterday, what the hell did we do? We have too many holes. We MIGHT make the playoffs, but I have no hopes that we'll advance.

Wow...another exhibition of patient hitting by our Chicago Cubs.

haven't heard anyone say five games. in fact, I think just about everyone here thinks we have holes -- look at the game threads :) Yep, I've heard it on this board. I have serious doubts. Marquis absolutely sucks. Kendall, well...nuff said. Pagan is pathetic. And our offense, no power. Continued lack of patience. Can't hit left-handed pitching. We're a playoff team? LOL

I don't mean to quench the recent enthusiasm, but we've got too many holes on this team. Those who are predicting we'll win this division by 5 plus games may be very surprised.

This team is so damn frustrating.