vance_the_cubs_fan

Who cares about last year!!?? Last year is over. I deal with moronic White Sox fans every day. I despise them, and I wish their team ill. The anti-Cubs agenda is not only limited to the fans. It goes all the way to marketing (us vs. them ads), management (KW saying he doesn't want to be 2nd-fiddle to the Cubs), coaches (Ozzie saying "f the cubs"), and players (AJ saying he was rooting for the Tigers over the Cubs). I have friends who are White Sox fans. I cannot hold a baseball discussion w/ them w/o them saying "Cubs suck" Why should I root for the White Sox?? Their fans have never rooted for the Cubs. They don't want Cubs fans rooting for them. Fine. They are the ones who picked the fight. I used to never care about them. I started caring and hating them after I moved to New Trier and dealt w/ their fans online and in-person. W/ the Cubs out of it, I might as well root for the White Sox and Cardinals to lose. "I sure as heck ain't rooting for the White Sox or Cardinals." - It's the only intelligent thing our manager has ever done or said. I don't think anyone expects you too "root" for the Sox. From what I read, I think they are commenting on your overall obsession with the White Sox. Honestly, how many Sox fans do you really encounter in the northern suburbs? Online? What sites are you visiting where you deal with this? WSI? Cubs.com? What else would you expect? New Trier is more White Sox fans than Cubs fans. When I pass by White Sox fans, they start going, "WHITE SOOOOOX!!" They do it to others too. They are rude, dumb, and obnoxious people. I hate their fans so much, I want to punch them in the face. So because they say their team's name, you want to punch them in the face? They very well may be doing it solely because they know it irritates you. It might have absolutely nothing to do with team allegiance. Somehow, I see much truth in this statement.

At least I'm .500 this year which is more than I can say for the Cobs.

There's so much comedy in this thread.

While I would deal Neifi for a used jock strap, I fear Hendry feels he is valuable and wants him around for next season.

For the right combination of players, I'm willing to deal one of them.

I'd try to upgrade at the corners and move Jones to CF. Pierre is a one-trick pony and his trick really isn't that good.

this isnt true.. i have hope for 07 Unless Hendry starts talking about plate discipline, I dont see it happening My hope is that Hendry goes after players who have good OBP, while that may not be what they are most known for. A guy like Sheffield, 304/397/550 from 2003-2005 and 309/372/439 before his injury this year, is a Hendry find. His value to Hendry is his batting average and power, yet he has good OBP. Hendry would be getting him for the wrong reasons, but he could still work out well. I'm hoping that we're able to get this kind of player for 2007 and hopefully end up ok.

Here's what Jayson Stark wrote about Maddux on Saturday prior to the Williamson trade.

because how one organization's teams (out of six) did against one team over the course of eight measly games tells you absolutely nothing about their system as a whole. sorry, but if reputable scouting/minor league publications say their system, as a whole sucks, that holds more weight than the fact that you've seen their low A team play decent ball over an eight game span against the chiefs. Hey I was just giving an informed opinion on the two guys in the deal THAT I HAD SEEN PITCH IN PERSON. ...I really don't care how they stack up prospect wise or if the Cubs got enough in return for Williamson...im not a Cubs fan. I just work in Peoria which happens to be a Cubs affiliate....I hope they pitch well in a Chiefs uniform the rest of this season and help us win as many games as possible and hopefully a MWL Championship. All I can do is comment on what I see....But hey, feel free to drive to Peoria, or WEst Michigan or wherever we are and watch all their games....or follow us on online broadcasts.... Nathan That's probably the key difference. We do care. We care more about how they stack up as prospects than we do if Peoria, West Tenn, Iowa, etc produce winning teams. While it is nice for the minor league affiliates to have success, and I do want them to win, I more want them to produce valuable players for the Cubs, whether by contributing themselves or becoming a commodity to trade for a player who will help the Cubs win. Nathan, Thank-you for being a part of the community here. I do appreciate what you and Ron and others bring from your perspective. I also think there is great value in what the scouting reports and publications bring as well.

That was made without making trades. If I could pull off some deals, there's other moves I might make instead depending on what the Cubs could get in return for Maddux/Pierre/Walker/Nevin/Blanco at the deadline. Those moves could impact any number of spots and roster decisions. Other possibilities, is moving Jones to CF and using the Matthews money to upgrade another spot. Trading some excess pitching arms could net a bat, making the signing of Sheffield which is risky unneccisary. Only thing I dont like is...... no Hank White. as i keep saying.. he is one of the better backup catchers in the game. For a much lower price, Soto could offer the same thing. It's not wise to allocate 1.5 million to the back-up catcher that plays maybe once a week.

Fine. We sign him in November. I, personally, don't want him back. There will be better CFers to sign. If Pierre doesn't want to discuss extension you trade him. It's better than risking him leaving via FA and not getting anything but a draft pic that we'll use for a toolsy player with no plate discipline.

Here it is: That was made without making trades. If I could pull off some deals, there's other moves I might make instead depending on what the Cubs could get in return for Maddux/Pierre/Walker/Nevin/Blanco at the deadline. Those moves could impact any number of spots and roster decisions. Other possibilities, is moving Jones to CF and using the Matthews money to upgrade another spot. Trading some excess pitching arms could net a bat, making the signing of Sheffield which is risky unneccisary.

Zito is likely to get a deal that pays him 5/70- 5/75. In my estimates, he's not worth that much. He's a good pitcher, just not that good. I detailed some moves I'd make in another thread. I'll try to find it and re-post.

Chances aside, we shouldn't spend that kind of money to get Zito.

We suck.

It's not a firesale in the sense that we're unloading them because of salary. We're trading them with an eye for the future, but in the Cubs case that future should be next season. Does it really make a difference if we lose 89 games or if we lose 96? It doesn't matter what we get for Pierre. We're still going to have to produce the dollars to sign him in the offseason. Get the best player you can whether it's a pitcher or not. We also have Pie in AAA that can play CF or shift Jones there. I doubt extensions will be signed. It's a risk you take, but most players prefer to test the waters of free agency than take the first offer made. If the Cubs want to retain them, make the best offer now. If Pierre turns it down, trade him. If it's the best offer you want to make, then you know it doesn't matter what another team is going to offer.

Protection is a myth.

because how one organization's teams (out of six) did against one team over the course of eight measly games tells you absolutely nothing about their system as a whole. sorry, but if reputable scouting/minor league publications say their system, as a whole sucks, that holds more weight than the fact that you've seen their low A team play decent ball over an eight game span against the chiefs. I don't think he that his sole point was that those guys are good b/c they have beaten up on the Chiefs; I thought he was saying that he has seen the two prospects in person and that they looked good (see his earlier posts in this thread). I think his point was that we can't trust stats and scouting reports from publications like BA to give us a picture of the state of a farm system, which I find ridiculous. No one is going to see every team and evey minor leaguer play. However, a publication or organization that forms contacts with scouts that watch a number of these teams will give us an insight that is likely better than what one individual who watches the same team play over and over can give. Are the assessments always correct? No, but I think they are more accurate than not.

As long as in his first meeting with Dusty and Hendry he utters his famous line... http://www.quotenet.nl/2005/10/18/trump.jpg "You're Fired."

I wouldn't consider trading Maddux or Pierre having a "fire sale." Trading Ramirez, Lee, Howry, Eyre, Dempster, etc would be. Even if Pierre and Maddux are in the plans, what benefit do you have in not trading them? Very little. The Cubs will have a small window to sign them, but it's doubtful they sign without listening to other offers. When that happens, having retained them could be a detriment. If you don't offer arbitration, the Cubs have to sign them before the winter meetings or lose negotiating rights until May 1, assuring they will play elsewhere. With Pierre, I can see the Cubs offering arbitration. I can't see this happening with Maddux. If they are in the plans, go ahead and sign the extensions. My guess is neither is willing to do that. The wise move is to trade them and then enter the bidding for them come November. It's not a firesale, it's maximizing assets in a lost season.

Wow. After reading this, I like Dierker even more. Of course, after reading that, I understand there is now way Jim Hendry hires him.

I'd do Hill and Pie for Tejada simply because I don't think the Cubs will ever give Hill a chance and Pie for Tejada is a good deal.

Judging by the pic he posted in the pic thread, he could just be busy.

Ok...I'll repost this as a "back to the topic." Maddux's spot in the HOF has nothing to do with whther we should trade him. And even if he has an effect on the young pitchers, it's likely negligible. He's probably shared all the advice he has anyway. When you have a team 22 games under .500 approaching the deadline, the smartest thing they can do is trade any and all players who are not part of the future. Any player not under contract is in that group. If you want to retain them, have the sign an extension. Without an extension, even if you want them next season, you're still bidding with all the other teams. Having kept them lends a little advantage, but not much. Maddux is in this group. A team that is going to move forward has to put sentimentality aside and get what they can for every impending FA. This idea isn't the same for players under team control for 2007 and beyond, but Maddux, Walker, Pierre, Nevin, and Blanco should be moved if a trade is available. That is the prudent and intelligent thing to do.

Serves Hill right for walking a batter last night. Unacceptable. Unfreakingbelievable. This organization is such a joke.