WHAT?! My thoughts as well. Now if it were Marshall, Veal, Jones for Andruw and Hudson...that's a good deal. Sorry vance, I'm not purposedly trying to pick fights with you, or it's not my intention, but imo, if there is one minor leaguer who is OFF-LIMITS, it is Donald Veal. And I certainly would not part with him for two massively overpriced contracts. And I think the Cubs could get Jones and Hudson WITHOUT having to put Veal in. Now, Jones/Marhsall/Marmol/Patterson for Hudson/AJ would atleast get to the table, especially if the Braves don't have to eat much of the contract. Oh, I'd definitely try to make the move without including Veal as well. Somewhere in some thread, I think I've proposed a deal for Jones and Hudson that didn't include Veal. On the other hand, if I could get Jones and Hudson in a package, I don't think I'd let the inclusion of Veal become a deal breaker. As much as I hope it's not so, but I think if the Braves are moving Jones and Hudson in the same deal, they are going to want one of Veal, Murton, or Pie. My deal was Pie and Marshall for Hudson and Jones. The Cubs probably have to add another player to the deal, but I don't think it would have to be a high ceiling guy. The Cubs might even be able to get the Braves to take Novoa or someone of his ilk back.