17 Seconds

As far as value goes, it doesn't even matter if those prospects end up turning into good players. They all have value right NOW. We only have a certain amount of tradeable assets. Just because they might no turn out to be good doesn't mean it's okay to trade them with reckless abandon. That's irresponsible. Like I said, we have greater needs. Those players should be used to fill those nees, not for an upgrade at a position that doesn't need upgrading. You say that just because the 3 pitchers traded for Pierre haven't turned into anything good that means the Pierre trade wasn't a good one, which is not true at all. That was still a horrible trade because at the time we traded them, those 3 guys still had value, value that should have been used responsibly. Instead we threw them away for nothing. Even if those 3 pitchers retire in 2 years, that still was a bad trade because they had value at the time. The reason I'm against the trade isn't because I want them on our team in the future. It's because I want them to be used for holes that we acually need to fill.

I would. I'm not convinced at all that Cedeno will ever be much of a hitter and Veal has some very serious question marks. Gallagher is a big loss, but Roberts helps this team quite a bit too. I wouldn't be dancing in the street over the trade, but I think it would be a net improvement for the Cubs. I just think out limited valuable trading assets need to be saved or used to fill actual holes. I think we're certainly going to need other upgrades at the deadline.

I wouldn't even do Gallagher, Veal, and Cedeno.

no, it's really not How is it not? After 3 months, name other possible scenarios. Hendry wants him, Macphail is asking for more than hendry currently wants to give. Whether or not somebody else on the O's side (PGA) is holding it up and wanting more doesn't matter. Hendry needs to decide one way or another, because it's just a distraction. So you'd rather Hendry give up more than he needs to in the trade? No, I'd rather him walk away. What if the current trade on the table is Roberts for Gallagher and a minor leaguer with the only holdup being the O's want to decide if said minor leaguer is Ceda, Cedeno or Veal? Perhaps all these "names tossed around" were mostly bogus and for the past month or two it's been Roberts for Gallagher and one of Ceda/Cedeno/Veal. Maybe the current holdup is that MacPhail wants his scouts to evaluate the three minor leaguers in spring training and, towards the end, they'll make their decision between the three. If that's the case and Hendry tabled talks permanently because it's taking too long would you congratulate him for passing on a great trade simply because he was impatient? Haha. Sorry, but I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. If it turns out that was the case, I'll glady come on here to apologize to Hendry, but come on man. We all know that's not true.

From The Baltimore Sun

no, it's really not How is it not? After 3 months, name other possible scenarios. Hendry wants him, Macphail is asking for more than hendry currently wants to give. Whether or not somebody else on the O's side (PGA) is holding it up and wanting more doesn't matter. Hendry needs to decide one way or another, because it's just a distraction. So you'd rather Hendry give up more than he needs to in the trade? No, I'd rather him walk away.

:lol: I think the part where he said we'd be "signing" Brian Roberts just proves that this guy has a very trustworthy source.

no, it's really not How is it not? After 3 months, name other possible scenarios. Hendry wants him, Macphail is asking for more than hendry currently wants to give. Whether or not somebody else on the O's side (PGA) is holding it up and wanting more doesn't matter. Hendry needs to decide one way or another, because it's just a distraction. you have failed to show anything but anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is perhaps what you view it to be. that, by the very definition of the word, is not obvious. and who is distracted? most players in the league know that they can be replaced at any given time, a trade rumor now is no different than trade rumors through August Wait, why are you crossing up my words? I never said it was obivous that it's a distraction, I said it was obvious what was going on with trade talks. You're confusing 2 seperate topics. Go read the post you originally quoted because that was before the distraction stuff (which I've already said was hypothetical) even strted being discussed. I believe you just crossed my words, there's no confusion here You're right, I read it wrong. Anyways, my point still stands. I think it's very obvious what is going on. I really don't see how it could not be what's going on. If you could give me an example of what might be going on, I'd love to hear it. We know that Hendry wants Roberts. We know that MacPhail is willing to deal Roberts to the Cubs if they meet his demands. How is it NOT obvious to anybody what is going on here? I mean, even if you didn't pay attention to the hundreds of reports that have come out in the media which confirm what's going on, it's still pretty obvious. They're negotiatng, like all trades. The pnly difference is that negotiations don't usually last 3 months. Seriously, what else could possibly be going on? A trade has been done for 2 months but MacPhail lost PGA's cell number and hasn't been able to get ahold of him? I'd love to hear a a reasonable example of something that could possibly be happening other than 2 teams negotiating. Please, enlighten me.

no, it's really not How is it not? After 3 months, name other possible scenarios. Hendry wants him, Macphail is asking for more than hendry currently wants to give. Whether or not somebody else on the O's side (PGA) is holding it up and wanting more doesn't matter. Hendry needs to decide one way or another, because it's just a distraction. you have failed to show anything but anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is perhaps what you view it to be. that, by the very definition of the word, is not obvious. and who is distracted? most players in the league know that they can be replaced at any given time, a trade rumor now is no different than trade rumors through August Wait, why are you crossing up my words? I never said it was obivous that it's a distraction, I said it was obvious what was going on with trade talks. You're confusing 2 seperate topics. Go read the post you originally quoted because that was before the distraction stuff (which I've already said was hypothetical) even strted being discussed.

no, it's really not How is it not? After 3 months, name other possible scenarios. Hendry wants him, Macphail is asking for more than hendry currently wants to give. Whether or not somebody else on the O's side (PGA) is holding it up and wanting more doesn't matter. Hendry needs to decide one way or another, because it's just a distraction. I'm not in total disagreement with you at all. But I'm sure the M's are glad they waited for the O's to decide so they could get Bedard. Hopefully (withfingers crossed) that Roberts will be worth the wait. Almost every Mariners fan I've talked to was furious with that trade. Bavasi is a pretty crappy GM too. And even that trade didn't drag out as long as this did, not even close. Not to mention the M's ended up overpaying in the end.

It's clearly not distracting Roberts, so who is it distracting? I'm not saying it's going to kill the team or anything, but of course is a distraction to some extent. I mean, when the team is talking about it with reporters it can't be a good thing, especially with Derosa. Even Aramis was quoted as saying he thinks trades will be made before the season started and that he's anxious to see what the roster looks like on opening day. Again, I'm not saying it's a huge deal or anything, but disctractions like these aren't exactly what you want in the middle of March.

no, it's really not How is it not? After 3 months, name other possible scenarios. Hendry wants him, Macphail is asking for more than hendry currently wants to give. Whether or not somebody else on the O's side (PGA) is holding it up and wanting more doesn't matter. Hendry needs to decide one way or another, because it's just a distraction.

Yeah, I think Hendry keeps forgetting that he no longer works for MacPhail.... Link to where he did or didn't say this? We don't really know what the negotiations have sounded like. All we know is that the Orioles take forever to complete a trade, and that Angelos is probably meddling in some way. The Roberts trade isn't any different than anything else the Orioles have ever done. Thank you!!! I believe Bruce said it best. It takes two teams to make a trade. Quit bashing Hendry when no one here knows what is being discussed. Huh? Have the Cubs and Orioles not been talking for 3 months? That's not speculation, that's reality. It's pretty obvious what is going on. You know what is going on? Please fill me in. I don't have any connections. Thanks Do you really think there is any other explanation for what is taking so long? Hendry wants Roberts, that's obvious. MacPhail is willing to trade Roberts, but is asking for too much. This is extremely obvious. What the other poster said was right. You need to eventually pay the price or move on. This has been dragged out for 3 months.

Yeah, I think Hendry keeps forgetting that he no longer works for MacPhail.... Link to where he did or didn't say this? We don't really know what the negotiations have sounded like. All we know is that the Orioles take forever to complete a trade, and that Angelos is probably meddling in some way. The Roberts trade isn't any different than anything else the Orioles have ever done. Thank you!!! I believe Bruce said it best. It takes two teams to make a trade. Quit bashing Hendry when no one here knows what is being discussed. Huh? Have the Cubs and Orioles not been talking for 3 months? That's not speculation, that's reality. It's pretty obvious what is going on.

I've been against the Roberts trade if it's for the rumored packages, but I have a feeling that if we don't get him the lineup construction is going to be a nightmare. The fact that Lou is even considering Theriot at leadoff and Soriano 2nd is extremely Dustyesque and completely unnacceptable. Under no circumstances should Theriot be batting leadoff. None.

I hope this is sarcasm. I wrote that he's a better leadoff man, which i stand by. Soriano's obviously the better hitter. So, you're saying you'd rather have .266/.326 out of the leadoff spot than.299/.337 just because the first guy takes more walks? That's some pretty flawed logic sir. That reminds me of the guy on the cubs.com board who insisted that Theriot gets on base well. His reasoning was that the difference between a player's average and his OBP is more important than how high the OBP itself is. So if a guy hits .170 but has a .280 obp, he thinks the guy gets on base well.

Did he really?

Judging by your username you're probably 13 years old, so I'll let this go and chalk it up to a dumb kid playing on the internet. Good one though man, you should do stand up. You're as clever as Dane Cook. Now you'll probably respond with another lame PM joke because you've got nothing original to say. Come on.....you knowing it's coming.....

Very clever. If you've got a problem then why don't you actually answer me instead of taking cheap shots. I've explained what the PM thing was about. Grow up.

I'm aware of what I said. It was just another case of wrigley23 putting his own little spin on things. Lou never said that he's going to bat Soriano regular during the regular season. He hinted that he might consider it and wrigley comes on here saying "i told you so! lou says soriano will bat 2nd!". So, maybe you guys should make sure you're reading my statements in the correct context before you jump down my throat. Oh, and if I wanted to start another pissing war with wrigley23, there is much more I could have and maybe even wanted to say, but I didn't. I just wanted to get across the fact that nothing is even close to being set in stone, despite how he portrays it.

In spring training.

If you read the article, you'll notice that it sounds like Lou is giving this serious consideration for more than just spring training.

He hit 16 home runs and slugged .554 after the break. So, yeah, I'd say he got his power stroke going.

And what have those three done since the trade though? Pinto has been somewhat decent, the other two, not so much. That's not the point. Even if all 3 of those guys were out of baseball by 2011, it still would have been a bad trade. When they were traded, they all had value. Value that should have been used accordingly.

I can't find other defensive metrics that are sorted by position. Derosa's overall numbers are skewed since he plays so many positions.