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I just looked up Gregg's stats from the past two years, and I've confirmed that this post is completely insane which of those guys is gregg significantly better than?

I'm pretty sure he's confusing you with JeffH, who would still bash Hendry even if he brought home 4 straight World Series titles. that guy cracks me up. raven: are you really confusing me with that dude?

That hardly is trade value. As to the trade itself, I really haven't commented on the aspect of it being a good or bad move. I have commented numerous times that the deal is not worth blowing up the GM over. Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade. And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something? That is precisely it. then you might want to get tested

That hardly is trade value. As to the trade itself, I really haven't commented on the aspect of it being a good or bad move. I have commented numerous times that the deal is not worth blowing up the GM over. Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade. And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something?

That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it? Ah, yes, my mistake. I did not know how to reference a WHIP stat, even though I brought up one. You, sir, are good. "That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it?" Oh my god. BECAUSE HE HAS TRADE VALUE. This really isn't hard to understand. Everybody and their mothers understand how trade value works and that Gregg's value is less than Ceda's....except you. Then take the time to show it to me. If you can take the time to respond to all of my messages, then surely that is not too much for you to do. What are you basing this statement of absolute truth off of? Surely there must be a better reason than 'because I said it was'. That is all you have shown thus far. And how can a player that isn't that great, that we won't miss, have such a high value that it is worth publicly trashing the GM over? Take time to show you what? His trade value? Are you being serious right now? How could I possibly do that? How about this..... show me that he doesn't have the best trade value of any player ever... in the history of baseball. SHOW ME OR IT ISN'T TRUE. Seriously, you're saying some pretty dumb things right now. I can show you what relief minor league prospects typically get traded for. That is what trade value is. It shows what the market values of that type of player in that type of position. Trust me, I am aware I say lots of dumb things. It does happen. I am just wondering how smart it is to say for fact that Ceda has more trade value than Gregg, and then come out and say you have no way to show that. Because I follow baseball and I know what baseball people say about Ceda and I know who Kevin Gregg is. Probably because I watch baseball. So is everybody else in this thread wrong about the trade and you're right? That's basically what you're saying.

That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it? Ah, yes, my mistake. I did not know how to reference a WHIP stat, even though I brought up one. You, sir, are good. "That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it?" Oh my god. BECAUSE HE HAS TRADE VALUE. This really isn't hard to understand. Everybody and their mothers understand how trade value works and that Gregg's value is less than Ceda's....except you. Then take the time to show it to me. If you can take the time to respond to all of my messages, then surely that is not too much for you to do. What are you basing this statement of absolute truth off of? Surely there must be a better reason than 'because I said it was'. That is all you have shown thus far. And how can a player that isn't that great, that we won't miss, have such a high value that it is worth publicly trashing the GM over? Forgot to respond to this gem. dear god. I DID NOT SAY HE HAS GREAT TRADE VALUE. I SAID THAT HE HAS BETTER TRADE VALUE THAN KEVIN GREGG, WHICH IS NOT HARD TO DO. The real question is why are you singling me out on this one, when virtually everybody else in this thread has agreed that it was too much to give up for gregg. Is everybody wrong and you're the one voice of sanity?

That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it? Ah, yes, my mistake. I did not know how to reference a WHIP stat, even though I brought up one. You, sir, are good. "That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it?" Oh my god. BECAUSE HE HAS TRADE VALUE. This really isn't hard to understand. Everybody and their mothers understand how trade value works and that Gregg's value is less than Ceda's....except you. Then take the time to show it to me. If you can take the time to respond to all of my messages, then surely that is not too much for you to do. What are you basing this statement of absolute truth off of? Surely there must be a better reason than 'because I said it was'. That is all you have shown thus far. And how can a player that isn't that great, that we won't miss, have such a high value that it is worth publicly trashing the GM over? Take time to show you what? His trade value? Are you being serious right now? How could I possibly do that? How about this..... show me that he doesn't have the best trade value of any player ever... in the history of baseball. SHOW ME OR IT ISN'T TRUE. Seriously, you're saying some pretty dumb things right now.

I was talking about performance and statistics, not about how they get there

That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it? Ah, yes, my mistake. I did not know how to reference a WHIP stat, even though I brought up one. You, sir, are good. "That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it?" Oh my god. BECAUSE HE HAS TRADE VALUE. This really isn't hard to understand. Everybody and their mothers understand how trade value works and that Gregg's value is less than Ceda's....except you.

while trying to not take a dump

God forbid. I'm not saying that's why I don't want him, I'm saying that's why Hendry won't get him.

Wow that is some interesting logic Yeah, that makes no sense. this deal was done because of the decision to not bring back wood. it wasn't a choice between keeping woody and trading for gregg. The end result is, Gregg will be there instead of Woody. As for saving 4-5 million -- that seems like a pretty small amount of money for a team to be unloading an all-star pitcher with a 1.085 WHIP when they're already spending over 100 million and talking about taking on more. you're talking about a 4-year commitment to a guy with an arm put together by duct tape. i don't necessarily like the trade for gregg or even gregg himself, really, but woody was long gone and the deals had nothing to do with each other besides the fact that we needed another body in there. Going with Gregg instead of wood this year is only a difference of $5 mil, but it's a difference of over $30 mil over the lifetime of his would be contract. you really want to make that commitment? i don't It's change for this team with a payroll that might push $150 million and will undoubtedly expand even more as we go along. $40 million over 4 years to a guy whose career was an inch away from being done just over a year ago is not change how can you seriously believe yourself BUT TELL ME WHAT PLAYER WE COULD SIGN WITH THAT MONEY THAT MAKES US BETTER. ANSWER ME THAT seriously. i don't get how anyone can think this way. i mean, soul, try and look more than 6 months into the future, man. You are very convinced that Wood's arm is going to fall off. It didn't this year, with full duty. If it's that certain, then no other team should offer him more than a couple years. If they do, and it works out, we'll talk. $4-$5 million per year is just not that much money for this ballclub. That's pretty much Blanco money. In 4 years it will be even less. You really think Wood is only going to get 4-5 a year? No, I'm talking about the hypothetical savings difference. Then why aren't you taking incto account the difference in lengths of contracts? Because you don't want to...because it kills your argument

The numbers aren't valid for comparison as they were not facing even remotely the same talent pool. It is highly unlikely that Jose Ceda is major league ready next year, and to the point that he is ready to be an above average major league reliever. Those are not his actual numbers, those are his MLE (major league equivalents). Most players make the jump from AA to the majors. It is not highly unlikely that Ceda will pitch in the majors next year by any stretch of the imagination. MLE is way over that guy's head

I have a feeling you're only looking at ERA. Kevin Gregg really isn't very good. He's a mediocre reliever who is going to make millions next season. How is he better than Michael Wuertz? Also yuou seem to be forgetting that Ceda's value to the Cubs is not just what he can contribute to our team. He has trade value and we just wasted it on a guy who isn't an upgrade to a lot of guys we already have. Where is Ceda's trade value? And what other stats are you evaluating Gregg on? I am not disagreeing with you, I am just wanting to know. What do you mean by "where is Ceda's trade value"? I don't understand that question. As for Gregg, you can simply look at his stats yourself. He's basically Michael Wuertz. He walks a ton of guys and gives up a lot of baserunners. He's another "hold your breath" reliever. We have enough of those already and they don't make as much as he will this season. You said he has trade value. What is that value? I assume you have some information on what that value is, that it is considerate enough that we made a huge blunder trading away someone with an escalated value such as Ceda? I can look at the stats. I have looked at the stats. The 'stats' is not very specific though. Which ones are you using to measure? If it is a few simple ones, it should be relatively easy to say which ones. Note that I said I didn't disagree with you on Gregg. I still don't. I just am curious as to which ones you are using to make that statement. Are you for real? So a guy only has trade value if I can name what players he can be traded for? wtf? And where did I say he had such escalated trade value? I never acted like he's some stud prospect who wuill be a key part in future trades. However, I do know that he's worth more than a mediocre reliever who will make millions next year and isn't much of an upgrade to a lot of guys we have now. As for the stats, I don't understand you. Do you not understand how to look at statistics? You can look at them and very easily come to the conclusion of why I think he's a very mediocre reliever. What do you want from me? Over the past 5 seasons he's basically been a 1.30 WHIP guy who walks everybody. Yes, a guy only has trade value if someone is willing to trade someone for him. But given that he is a minor league relief pitcher, which generally is not a position that holds that much of trade value, you may use other minor league relief options that are similar to Ceda to show how he could have been a part of a key trade. I assume that is your complaint since you said we just wasted his trade value. Escalated trade value would be a trade value higher than Gregg. He must have more, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining. I am wondering what you are basing that off of. Oh, so WHIP is the stat you are looking at. Did you not see Ceda's WHIP of 1.32 in AA last year? I don't think you understand how mediocre Gregg's value is with his salary, injury concerns, and mediocre performance. Saying that anything better than Gregg would be considered "escalated trade value" is pretty absurd. Baseball America ranked Ceda as our 4th best prospect in 2008. Were they just full of it? Yes I saw Ceda's WHIP at AA. So did BA. I also saw all the strikeouts. I also saw his age. Did you? Besides, comparing his stats at 21 to Gregg's current stats is pretty dumb. Really dumb actually. Can you tell me how Gregg is noticably better than Michael Wuertz? I'm not here to debate how good Ceda is. All we know about what guys value is is what people around baseball say. According to pretty much everybody who is even remotely involved, Ceda has better value than what we just used him for. Stop trying to ct like I think Ceda is some great player who we'll regret getting rid of. Edit: Oh, and WHIP wasn't the only stat I was looking at for Gregg. It was just an example I gave because you kept asking for stats like yopu were unable to find them yourself. HE'S NOT THAT GOOD

Wow that is some interesting logic Yeah, that makes no sense. this deal was done because of the decision to not bring back wood. it wasn't a choice between keeping woody and trading for gregg. The end result is, Gregg will be there instead of Woody. As for saving 4-5 million -- that seems like a pretty small amount of money for a team to be unloading an all-star pitcher with a 1.085 WHIP when they're already spending over 100 million and talking about taking on more. you're talking about a 4-year commitment to a guy with an arm put together by duct tape. i don't necessarily like the trade for gregg or even gregg himself, really, but woody was long gone and the deals had nothing to do with each other besides the fact that we needed another body in there. Going with Gregg instead of wood this year is only a difference of $5 mil, but it's a difference of over $30 mil over the lifetime of his would be contract. you really want to make that commitment? i don't It's change for this team with a payroll that might push $150 million and will undoubtedly expand even more as we go along. $40 million over 4 years to a guy whose career was an inch away from being done just over a year ago is not change how can you seriously believe yourself BUT TELL ME WHAT PLAYER WE COULD SIGN WITH THAT MONEY THAT MAKES US BETTER. ANSWER ME THAT seriously. i don't get how anyone can think this way. i mean, soul, try and look more than 6 months into the future, man. You are very convinced that Wood's arm is going to fall off. It didn't this year, with full duty. If it's that certain, then no other team should offer him more than a couple years. If they do, and it works out, we'll talk. $4-$5 million per year is just not that much money for this ballclub. That's pretty much Blanco money. In 4 years it will be even less. You really think Wood is only going to get 4-5 a year?

I have a feeling you're only looking at ERA. Kevin Gregg really isn't very good. He's a mediocre reliever who is going to make millions next season. How is he better than Michael Wuertz? Also yuou seem to be forgetting that Ceda's value to the Cubs is not just what he can contribute to our team. He has trade value and we just wasted it on a guy who isn't an upgrade to a lot of guys we already have. Where is Ceda's trade value? And what other stats are you evaluating Gregg on? I am not disagreeing with you, I am just wanting to know. What do you mean by "where is Ceda's trade value"? I don't understand that question. As for Gregg, you can simply look at his stats yourself. He's basically Michael Wuertz. He walks a ton of guys and gives up a lot of baserunners. He's another "hold your breath" reliever. We have enough of those already and they don't make as much as he will this season. You said he has trade value. What is that value? I assume you have some information on what that value is, that it is considerate enough that we made a huge blunder trading away someone with an escalated value such as Ceda? I can look at the stats. I have looked at the stats. The 'stats' is not very specific though. Which ones are you using to measure? If it is a few simple ones, it should be relatively easy to say which ones. Note that I said I didn't disagree with you on Gregg. I still don't. I just am curious as to which ones you are using to make that statement. Are you for real? So a guy only has trade value if I can name what players he can be traded for? wtf? And where did I say he had such escalated trade value? I never acted like he's some stud prospect who wuill be a key part in future trades. However, I do know that he's worth more than a mediocre reliever who will make millions next year and isn't much of an upgrade to a lot of guys we have now.Where did I say it was a "huge blunder"? I said it was a dumb trade, just like almost everybody else in here is saying. I don't even like Ceda. I was hoping he'd get traded this offseason... just not for Kevin Gregg. As for the stats, I don't understand you. Do you not understand how to look at statistics? You can look at them and very easily come to the conclusion of why I think he's a very mediocre reliever. What do you want from me? Over the past 5 seasons he's basically been a 1.30 WHIP guy who walks everybody.

All I know is that if hendry locks up Gregg long term in an attempt to save face I'm going to seriously flip out

Wow that is some interesting logic Yeah, that makes no sense. this deal was done because of the decision to not bring back wood. it wasn't a choice between keeping woody and trading for gregg. The end result is, Gregg will be there instead of Woody. As for saving 4-5 million -- that seems like a pretty small amount of money for a team to be unloading an all-star pitcher with a 1.085 WHIP when they're already spending over 100 million and talking about taking on more. you're talking about a 4-year commitment to a guy with an arm put together by duct tape. i don't necessarily like the trade for gregg or even gregg himself, really, but woody was long gone and the deals had nothing to do with each other besides the fact that we needed another body in there. Going with Gregg instead of wood this year is only a difference of $5 mil, but it's a difference of over $30 mil over the lifetime of his would be contract. you really want to make that commitment? i don't It's change for this team with a payroll that might push $150 million and will undoubtedly expand even more as we go along. $40 million over 4 years to a guy whose career was an inch away from being done just over a year ago is not change how can you seriously believe yourself BUT TELL ME WHAT PLAYER WE COULD SIGN WITH THAT MONEY THAT MAKES US BETTER. ANSWER ME THAT

I have a feeling that if Hendry gave Wood 4/40 and he got hurt sometime next year you'd be trashing him for giving out such a ridiculous contract to a reliever who was almost guaranteed to get injured.

I have a feeling you're only looking at ERA. Kevin Gregg really isn't very good. He's a mediocre reliever who is going to make millions next season. How is he better than Michael Wuertz? Also yuou seem to be forgetting that Ceda's value to the Cubs is not just what he can contribute to our team. He has trade value and we just wasted it on a guy who isn't an upgrade to a lot of guys we already have. Where is Ceda's trade value? And what other stats are you evaluating Gregg on? I am not disagreeing with you, I am just wanting to know. What do you mean by "where is Ceda's trade value"? I don't understand that question. As for Gregg, you can simply look at his stats yourself. He's basically Michael Wuertz. He walks a ton of guys and gives up a lot of baserunners. He's another "hold your breath" reliever. We have enough of those already and they don't make as much as he will this season.

A lot of the people who are bitching aobut this are the same people who say how stupid it is to give out huge contracts to relievers. Letting Wood go was the right move. We can't give him 40 mil for 4 years and then pray that he doesn't get hurt (when we all know that he most likely will). It's just not the best for the team. It sucks, but it was a good move by Jim. I'm not even really upset. I like kerry but come on, we've dealth with him not being on the team for months at a time so we should be used to him not being around. I think sometimes Kerry is loved too much.

Wow that is some interesting logic

I have a feeling you're only looking at ERA. Kevin Gregg really isn't very good. He's a mediocre reliever who is going to make millions next season. How is he better than Michael Wuertz? Also yuou seem to be forgetting that Ceda's value to the Cubs is not just what he can contribute to our team. He has trade value and we just wasted it on a guy who isn't an upgrade to a lot of guys we already have.

3 run HR in Game 7. It was a 2 run shot

With the way Hendry just came out and said Wood is gone, I think it's pretty obvious that Gregg is staying.