NorthsideAvenger

No you wouldn't. :lol:

I prefer Mr. T over Willy T. in CF.

According to Ken Rosenthal Vernon Wells and the Blue Jays have agree to the 7 yr $126 mill deal. It's on rotoworld.

Krivsky has to be rapidly getting there as well. He certainly is. The way I see it, it goes... 1. Coletti 2. Krvisky 3. Bavasi 4. Bowden Bowden has absolutely mangled Krvisky and Bavasi lately, so there does need to be a gap between them. What about Brian Sabean and his fetish for extremely OLD players?

About five yrs ago, people would have been screaming the Nats/Expos did not get enough for Vidro, who was then MLB's best hitting 2nd baseman. Man, how times have changed.

Man, the Astros are gunning for third place, aren't they?

That's absurd. Nobody has a clean sheet. Everybody's past matters. Asking people to not pre-judge a player is asking them to pretend that numbers and statistics don't matter, which is asking them to lie to themselves. If the Cubs signed me to be the SS next year, you would be darn well justified pre-judging me and being pissed that I was the Cubs SS next year. That is because I have not put up the numbers to justify such a role, not because I haven't done so in a Cubs uniform. Why is it absurd? Just because I disagree with you, gooney? While I do agree that "everybody's past matters", it doesn't mean he is going to repeat his past mistakes. People forget that Marquis was not exactly a favorite of LaRussa, and Tony made sure Jason knew that. I am not saying that stats don't matter, but stats do tend to lie, or even cover up the actual production of said player. So, while I am not going to get into a battle of stats, (because I have a life, and I don't need to go that far to prove my point), but I do know that is to already have a pre-conceive judgement of said player, makes very likely that unless he performs like a "Cy Young" caliber pitcher, people are going to boo Marquis, regardless of production. I'm not saying to ignore the facts, but moving to a new city, means a new opportunity for Marquis, and it is up to Jason to show that he is better then his stats suggest.

Then according to Chris Carpenter's "past performances", http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/carpech01.shtml he would had continue to be a talented, but crappy pitchers. "Past performances" is not the best predictor, because doesn't take into account different variables.

And what makies Duncan and Mazzone so special as PC? Mazzone lived off of Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine for atleast 14 yrs. Outside of those three HOFers, Mazzone was pretty much an average pitching coach. And outside of Carpenter, Duncan hasn't done much in St. Lou. He has had more talented pitchers lost then pitchers he help. I mean Smith, Ankiel, Al. Benes, etc, etc. So again...why are Mazzone and Duncan the end all to all pitching coaches? Duncan repeatedly has turned mediocre journeymen into solid pitchers. And Mazzone has been the PC for an enormous number of pitchers' best seasons, including Kevin Millwood, Steve Avery, Kyle Farnsworth, Mark Wohlers, Ligtenberg and a host of other more or less mediocre middle relievers that he got the most out of. Both of their staffs have routinely been better than those of Larry Rothschild. I just don't buy that if "Mazzone and Duncan can't turn the kid around he is useless" theory that seems to be popular on this board. Duncan and Mazzone gets more credit then they deserve to be honest. The Cards for the past 8 yrs have fielded if not the best, one of the best defense in ALL of baseball, and IMO, had the best calling defensive catcher in baseball in Matheny, so I think he had as much influence in developing those pitchers in St. Lou as Duncan. And ATL, I mean come on....they play in a VERY LARGE park, and AJ conitnues to cover ground like a fat man at a buffet. So I don't buy the Mazzone and Duncan BY THEMSELVES are responsible for the rebirth of several pitchers. Judge the kid by what he does in Chicago, not pre-judge him because of what he did in St. Lou and ATL, is all I asking for. Im not expecting much from Marquis, but atleast I am giving him a clean slate.

Because he is a bad play-by-play guy? Perspective? Let's just say that....out of all the announcers who are homers towards the home team (like Scully, Santo, S. Caray) Hawk Harrelsonis definately the worst, and he doesn't even try and hide it. If you listen to a White Sox game (trust me the headache of hearing Hawk Harrelson voice will go away after a good night of drinking) there are several times during a game (not just once, but several times, mind you) that there will be "silence" in the booth between Hawk and DJ. And during this silence, as a viewer, you just get this awkward feeling. Hawk doesn't know how to call a game, or even carry a conversation during the game. And the fact that the White Sox haven't fired his sorry excuse of an broadcaster, is beyond mindboggling.

And what makies Duncan and Mazzone so special as PC? Mazzone lived off of Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine for atleast 14 yrs. Outside of those three HOFers, Mazzone was pretty much an average pitching coach. And outside of Carpenter, Duncan hasn't done much in St. Lou. He has had more talented pitchers lost then pitchers he help. I mean Smith, Ankiel, Al. Benes, etc, etc. So again...why are Mazzone and Duncan the end all to all pitching coaches?

And if MLB finds that Boston did not negotiate in "Good faith" with Boras/Mats, then they would allow the 2nd highest bid to negotiate with Mats. Personally, if MLB does find that Boston only made the bid to keep Mats away from NYY(as much as I dislke the Yanks), then baseball should santioned Boston, by banning Boston from bidding on a Japanese import for atleast 3 yrs. Boston has to sign Mats, or prove they bid on him, not out of bitterness towards NYY, but because he was an upgrade over what they got.

You put Zumaya in the rotation? Are ya nuts? His value to the Tigers would diminished, and with Bonderman/Verlander/Miller/Robertson/Rogers already in the rotation and "rumor" to have a rotation, there is no room for Zoom in the rotation. Besides, Zoom has more value to the Tigers at the back end of the staff, not the front end.

Now to get back on topic that was started by vance, I think the solution is simple.........Hill is kept and in the rotation. Here is the guarantee rotation to start 2007: Zambrano Lilly Hill The final two spots will be battled by Guzman/Marshall/Mateo/Marmol/Miller/Prior/Marquis My guess is...Guzman/Marshall/Mateo and Marmol will be the foundation of the Iowa pitching staff, which leaves Miller/Marquis/ and Prior for the final two spot. In Miller, I believe there is a gentleman's handshake that that if there is not a spot in the rotation for Miller, Hendry would trade Wade to a team that has a spot (and Hendry is good at keeping his word). So the final two spots in the rotation will be Marquis and whoever is healthier Miller or Prior. So, IMO, Hill with the way he pitched when he was called up the last time in 2006, all but gurantee a spot in the rotation. It's up to Miller/Prior and Marquis to settle the final two spots in the rotation.

A little pessamistic aren't we? I think he is stating the facts. Lilly + Marquis = 17+ Million. Why not just overpay for Zito with that $$$? Zambrano + Zito is a pretty good 1-2 punch. You don't have to turn your head far to find pessimism on this board. That's fine you say that, all I gotta do is twitch my head to see someone else say Zito will suck at Wrigely since he's such a flyball pitcher. BTW, you are not arguing his case. He said an ace and 4, #5's. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Hill has the potential to be a bonified #2, probably an ace in a couple of years. Miller is already a solid #4 by the way he was already pitching TWO MONTHS ago, while still rehabbing. Lilly is atleast a #4, and Marquis could also be a #4, #3. I'm no stat guru, but I THINK the average for "number 5 pitchers" ERA was probably just above 5.0. Last time I checked Marquis and Lily have carreer ERA's close to 4.5. I know alot of us love to be pessamistic about EVERYTHING cubs. But statements like that are absolutely silly. A #1 and 4 #5's. Please. :roll: The Cards seem to get the breaks when it comes to turning around pitchers, but they've missed, also. I believe Marquis will be a pitcher that simply was not a fit in St. Lou. I hope Marquis comes into ST and with "chip on his shoulder" and wants to prove to St. Lou that he is the pitcher they thought he was when they trade JD Drew for. I expect a great season out of Marquis in 2007. I know some people will laugh at me, go head (wait for the laughing to subside), but I honestly believe Marquis will be a surprise hit for the Cubs.

wolf stansson; As Jericho mention, would you believe Chicago papers on rumors dealing with the Cardinals? For example if the DailyHerald is reporting...the Cards are planning to extend Braden Looperi ( hypothetically speaking) 5 yrs at nearly $11 mill per, would you believe Chicago papers, or St. Louis papers who have them extended 2 yrs at $8 mill? You see where we are getting at? Not saying St. Lou papers aren't legit, but they aren't totally reliable when it comes to rumors about the Cubs. Besides Bruce Miles over at DailyHerald is saying there is a offer on the table that is for 1 yr with an vesting option, which totally blows St. Lou "rumors" out of the water.

I don't buy the STLTODAY.com report that the Cubs are EVEN considering a 3 yr $28 mill deal. That "report" seems so Phil Rogers, is not even funny. Bruce Miles in the Dailyherald is saying the Cubs are considering a 1 yr deal with "vesting options." So, I don't know stltoday.com is getting 3 yrs $28 mill, but I doubt that's true.

I like it, if it is one yr with a vesting option. I know Mazzone and Duncan are two of the better pitching coaches in baseball, but BOTH are known to have some misses with their hits. So, I think the talent is there for Marquis, but can Rothschild fix what Mazzone (who is OVERRATED, btw) and Duncan couldn't? Who knows.

Ouch....BURN Kelso, is that you?

That has to be the most positive sounding post I have ever seen from you about the Cubs! :lol: Ok, people, we need to start an investigation leading into gooney's whereabouts. (CSI themes plays)

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure. First: Just because the Cubs are "stacked in the bullpen" doesn't mean the Cubs bullpen is any good. Outside of Howry/Erye/Ohman, the Cubs bullpen is full of ??? and crappy pitchers. So I think the upside of Wagner is greater then that of guys like Novoa/Wuertz, etc. And I like Marshall, but if the Cubs can fill two needs with one stone, then you do it. Marshall may never be anything more then a 4/5 starter in the majors, and those are expendable.

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part. I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

Heck, if the Cubs could've kept Josh Hamilton, included him in a deal for Kearns/Church would have been a no-brainer.

I fully expect Wainwright to be a starter for you next year. Not that it is a bad thing. Personally, they need to keep him as a closer. He was nasty as closer. I think Wainwright loses value as a starter.

Don't know if this is been posted already, if it has, I apologize, and delte it: http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spbbnotes075006003dec07,0,2085755.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines Extra bases