NorthsideAvenger

Apparently the Giants didn't learn from the Dodgers/Rockies mistakes (Brown/Hampton) are on dued to experience there version of "buyer's remorse" within 3 yrs. Under no circumstance SHOULD ANY PITCHER---healthy or not---shoudl get more then 5 yrs or said team is severely risking finicancial suicide. I know the pros and cons on the Zito deal, but the Giants screwed themselves.

Two words: Free Agency. AJ knows he has the chance to put up some monster numbers with Soriano/Murton/Lee hitting in front of him and ARam hitting behind him, at plus hitting at Wrigley. He could approach 45 hrs and 120 + rbis in his WALK YR, something he might not be able to approach in ATL.

That's an awful lot for a 1 year rental and salary relief to the team wanting to be out from under his contract. I wouldn't think it would take that much. But, the market is awful whack this offseason. And the Cubs wouldn't be forced to give up much to get AJ. I would be fine with J. Jones in CF, with Pie comin gup in 2008, rather then to give up Veal and Marshall for a possible one yr rental. Now, if the Cubs could extend AJ for at least 4 yrs at around $70 mill, that's another story.

Z firing Boras has little effect on the chances of the Cubs re-signing Z. Boras prides himself on telling his clients to "Wait till their FA agency before they sign a new deal" theory. Boras never liked signing a contract during season, or before there FA, and maybe that is whyZfired him, cause Z doesn't want to leave Chicago, and in Z's eyes his best chance at staying is find an agent who will get him the money his talent deserves, and do it quickly, instead of waiting. So, I HONESTLY believe Z will be signed in Spring Training, ala Aramis Ramirez (without the OPT OUT clause, tho) and Lee.

Could it be the best rotation in the NL Central? I don't think so, but it depends on the health of the players involved. I'd place the Cubs rotation slightly in front of the Brewers, or at least equal, based on health history. The Brewers are still counting on Sheets the way the Cubs counted on Prior and Wood for the last two seasons, and that is the main problem with their rotation. You have to figure Zambrano over Sheets simply based on durability alone. I'd equate Suppan, Capuano, and Bush as about equal value to Lilly, Prior/Miller, and Marquis. Both Vargas and Hill are mostly unknowns with lots of potential. Now, if you assume full health for Sheets and full health for Prior, I think the Cubs still have the edge. If you assume full health for Sheets, but not for Prior, then the Brewers probably have a slight edge based on Marquis/Bush #4 comparison. Pretty good though process, "TheDude", and I agree with it. Both Sheets and Prior will continue to be keys to their teams. If Prior is healthy, the Cubs 1A and 1B aces in Z and Prior, something no other NLCentral can boost. But as of right now, I believe the Cubs/Brewers starting rotations are about equal footing. The bullpen......that is a debate for after the new yr.

Rasmus and Reyes? No way. Maybe, maybe not, but do you see Beuhrle staying with the White Sox past 2007? No, and that's why I don't think the Cards would part with that much for a free agent at the end of next season (one who, as RationalSoxFan pointed out, is likely headed to St Louis as a free agent). Well maybe, the Cards won't add Rasmus, BUT I doubt it will take only Reyes. I do think Buehlre will be dealt, the question is...would a team like NY be willing to give up Heilman and Milledge for Buehlre (seeing as that was the going package for a similar pitcher in Zito) that also includes a deal similar to what Zito gets? What I am saying is...I don't see Buehrle going to St. Louis JUST YET. I think the Mets will swooped in and offer said package of Heilman/Milledge for Buehrle and then extend him at a deal OF SAY 5 YRS AT OVER $11 MILL per. So, again, while Buehrle "heart" maybe in St. Lou, but I think his agent/MLBPA would pushed him into taking a "higher deal" then what the Cards will offer. Huh? Beuhrle is a FA after next year, if the cards offered Reyes for Beuhrle straight up that would be an amazing deal for the sox. One that is much much better than the deal this thread is based upon. Exactly. I don't see the Mets offering Heilman/Milledge even if their opinion of Milledge is lowered for a pitcher they will then have to extend. Considering the new rules for draft pick compensation, I can't see the White Sox holding onto Buehrle for very much longer. Now, I do believe the White Sox will get a young player of a Milledge/Reyes caliber back in the deal, the question will be if they can get a solid 2nd prospect in return. But if the Mets/Angels offer a nice package, not to mention a very "lucrative" extension, you can't tell me he would prefer pitching in St. Lou for less money, MLBPA would FROWNED on Buehrle not setting up the market for next winter. I just don't see Buehrle going to St. Louis before Age 30, and the Cards may be leery are going after another "stud" lefty from the AL, considering how poorly Mulder pitched since he arrived in the NL. I know the temptation is for the Cards to bring home Buehrle, but St. Louis isn't Chicago, or even LA financially, and they would have to cut corners (ie continue to go after the Juan Encarnacions' of the world) to continue to build around Pujols offesnively. Don't plus Buehrle into the St.Lou rotation, JUST YET.

Rasmus and Reyes? No way. Maybe, maybe not, but do you see Beuhrle staying with the White Sox past 2007? No, and that's why I don't think the Cards would part with that much for a free agent at the end of next season (one who, as RationalSoxFan pointed out, is likely headed to St Louis as a free agent). Well maybe, the Cards won't add Rasmus, BUT I doubt it will take only Reyes. I do think Buehlre will be dealt, the question is...would a team like NY be willing to give up Heilman and Milledge for Buehlre (seeing as that was the going package for a similar pitcher in Zito) that also includes a deal similar to what Zito gets? What I am saying is...I don't see Buehrle going to St. Louis JUST YET. I think the Mets will swooped in and offer said package of Heilman/Milledge for Buehrle and then extend him at a deal OF SAY 5 YRS AT OVER $11 MILL per. So, again, while Buehrle "heart" maybe in St. Lou, but I think his agent/MLBPA would pushed him into taking a "higher deal" then what the Cards will offer.

Rasmus and Reyes? No way. Maybe, maybe not, but do you see Beuhrle staying with the White Sox past 2007?

Because he's a solid, durable pitcher. And he's getting the same deal as Lilly, when he's a way better pitcher than Lilly. Please, "way better" ... nice pitcher, but not worthy of "way better" I think you can make the case that Lilly is an OVERALL better pitcher. Considering Suppan's numbers against a pretty weak NL Central/NL .v. Lilly's numbers against a stronger AL EAST/AL, I think had Lilly waited, Lilly could had gotten prolly closer to $45 mill over 4.

Didn't Gary Carter and Mazeroski play defense? A defensive 1B with little power will never make the HOF. Unfortunately, certain positions (2B, SS, etc.) are considered defensive positions whereas other positions (1B, OF, etc.) are not only considered offensive positions, but offensive with power positions. Unless you are someone like Tony Gwynn with 3000+ hits, you need to show some muscle. So if 3,000 hits is the absolute mandate for automatic introduction then why is Mazeroski of 2,016 hits, a good 300 its fewer then Grace, and Mark played 1 few yr then Maz? Or Gary Carter of 2092 hits same reason with Maz? So what I am saying is Mark Grace was as great of a defensive 1B, as Maz was as a 2B, and Gary Carter as a C, and Grace was a significantly better offensive player then both, and yet Maz/Carter are considered HOFers, and yet Grace isn't considered a HOF? My guess is both Maz and Carter and Joe Morgan............you fill in the blank. I don't get why you seem to think Carter isn't a HOF catcher. WARP3 has Grace's best season coming in 1993, when he posted a total of 8.8. He also posted an 8.7 in 1992 and an 8.1 in 1989. But he didn't go over 8 again. From 1977 through 1986, Carter's WARP3 scores came in at... 8.4, 8.7, 8.8, 9.9, 7.6, 11.9, 9.5, 9.8, 10.3, 8.4 That's as good of a stretch as your are going to see. I don't pretend to know what WARP is, nor do I care about it. All I know is from prolly 1990 to his retirement, Grace was widely considered the 2nd most dangerous hitter----especially in the clutch---behind Tony Gywnn. There were times which teams would rather pitch to Sosa, then they would Grace, to which the Cubs had to often switch Grace from 3 slot to 4th slot. To me that has as much of an impact on the game, as a 500 ft homerun. IMO, if Carter is a HOFer, then Gracie is a HOFer, WARP be damned.

But wasn't Schmidt a butt kisser of Joe Morgan, like Gary Carter?

While I was drunk from a combination of Zima and O'Douls, I found those WMD that Bush lost.

This move REEKS of an organization that is to penny pinch. I'm sure Williams would have prefered moving Vazquez or Contreras, but didn't get the deal he wanted, as he did with McCarthy. This move also indicates that by 2009, the White Sox will have a new and cheaper rotation. So I am going to call it, I bet Mark Buehrle gets traded to the Cards for Reyes and Rasmus within 6 months.

If only he were the Ultimate Fighting Champion Barrett has a shot if he gives up baseball. He'll take on both Oswalt and AJ at the same time! How is that fair for Barrett? He would be taking on a midget and a mental midget....oh I get it now....

Didn't Gary Carter and Mazeroski play defense? A defensive 1B with little power will never make the HOF. Unfortunately, certain positions (2B, SS, etc.) are considered defensive positions whereas other positions (1B, OF, etc.) are not only considered offensive positions, but offensive with power positions. Unless you are someone like Tony Gwynn with 3000+ hits, you need to show some muscle. So if 3,000 hits is the absolute mandate for automatic introduction then why is Mazeroski of 2,016 hits, a good 300 its fewer then Grace, and Mark played 1 few yr then Maz? Or Gary Carter of 2092 hits same reason with Maz? So what I am saying is Mark Grace was as great of a defensive 1B, as Maz was as a 2B, and Gary Carter as a C, and Grace was a significantly better offensive player then both, and yet Maz/Carter are considered HOFers, and yet Grace isn't considered a HOF? My guess is both Maz and Carter and Joe Morgan............you fill in the blank.

After the Cubs have spent the money, I'm only interested in production and not the cost. Despite his playoff games, you do realize that Reyes put up an ERA over 5 this season, right? Hill's ERA, including 4 months of junk, was a full run lower. We have also yet to see Wainwright make the transition back to starter. I like the Cubs. I still think Wainwright's future is as closer, and the only reason why he is being mention as a starter candidate, is because of the lack of options for starters. So in reality nobody can compare Carpenter/Reyes/Wainwright to Z/Lilly/Hill, cause the Cards top 3 have more questions---excluding Carp, of course---then the Cubs Top 3. And if the Cubs get a healthy and productive Mark Prior (I know, I know) then there is no comparasion.

I know he is, but I still had to ask. Will the HOF voters be nitpicky about Griffey's inability to stay healthy as he got older---regardless of the way he played the game as a contributing factor to his injury woes? Or will they want to see him stay reasonably healthy for a couple of yrs, before they guarantee the spot?

Long term, I like Danks better than McCarthy. Danks season stats look worse, but he usually sucks the first 5-10 starts at each new level, then adjusts. Danks has better stuff anyway. That's debateable, about who has better stuff/long term potential, but I am kind of a Nick Massett fan, and ultimately, Massett will help the Sox moreso then either Floyd or Danks. Interesting deal for the Sox, and they are looking ahead, to when and if Buehrle leaves for the Cardinals. They better hope Cooper can rejuveniate Floyd and perhaps Danks career (didn't the White Sox draft Danks kid brother a few yrs back?), or the Garcia/McCarthy will look awful. This trade is definately a push.

First: this thread is becoming a real ROYAL pain in the butt. Second: The Royals better EMIL their fans about the 2007 season, or else it will be a BROWN out all season long. Third: If I had a Buck everytime people said the Royals suck, I would have MOORE money then half the people in Chicago. Fourth: The Royals better put some Sweetney in their Teahen, or it will be a Bannister yr for the opponents.

What is the definition of Hall of Fame? If Gary Carter (.262/.335/.439) and Bill Mazeroski (.260/.299/.367) are HOFers, then Mark Grace (.303/.383/.442), compare to those numbers, would be a LOCK for the HOF. And yes, I am in favor of stripping Mazeroski of his HOF title, seeing as HE ISN'T A HOFer. And yes, I don't think Grace is a HOF, but if you used the measuring stick to allow Mazeroski and Carter in, then Grace is a HOF. With that said, if baseball wants to continue to induct not even average players in the Hall, then they need to create a special group that belongs ONLY to the elite of the HOF, ie Aaron/Ruth/Gehrig/Gibson, etc,etc. Cause there is no way Bill Mazeroski/Gary Carter are the same caliber HOFer as Ruth/Aaron/Cobb/Gehrig, etc, etc.

In the wake of Bagwell's retirement/HOF chances, and Roger Clemens yearly "will he or won't he" game, the question has to be asked: If Junior Griffey, retired today (hyperthetically speaking, of course) would Junior be a Hall of Famer?

Does brain cells, count?

The Marquis signing was an obvious one, what with Hendry's recent appreciation for players with French (or French sounding) names: -Jason Dubois -Juan Pierre -Jacque Jones -Marquis Grissom -Jason Marquis Then why didn't he go after Mike Piazza, then? Although there were rumors Hendry was interested in Tony Graffanino. :oops: I was never good at geography. Italy is not part of France.

Now THAT'S a risque joke, Disgruntled. I like it.

I got drunk on half a sip of Zima....or was it O'Douls? ( :-k