WrigleyField 22

So are we gonna do round 5? Edit- Yes I'm interested. And as I said before, I'll pick up some teams if other people want to drop out (or perhaps if there is someone who has frequently missed).

I think the Green Bay one was set. But I can't imagine we had all those prime time games before Cutler.

Some stuff from Jeff Risdon at RealGM. More Here Good stuff about Percy Harvin in there, as well as some "Draft Floors".

Dude, obviously, Tyrus>Howard

Ohio State fan?

I don't much care what they're doing as long as they make it home in one piece. Someone mentioned earlier about switching a college D-lineman to OL. Didn't the Bears do that with Big Cat Williams? I don't know if it was the Bears who did it, but he was a DLineman. In fact, I don't think it even happened right out of college, but rather a few years into his NFL career that he made the switch. Edit- I guess it was the Bears, thats the only team he played for. However, he did spend two years on the defensive line in Chicago.

Lets make this the "Trade Geovanny Soto Thread"

Well we did have Blanco. He would cost more though. But in general I think Hill is fine as a backup, especially at his cost.

My only hope is that earlier in his career he was a slow starter, and he'll do the same this year. Even though he has reversed that trend the past few years and hit better early.

Sammie Lee Hill, DT, Stillman He is a project, but has the size to play NT, but with great athleticism. Looks like a spot where Oakland could use a player. I'll look and make a list of some other just BPA, if you'd like. Edit- Big Board: WR- Mike Thomas LB- Scott McKillop RB- Cedric Peerman CB- Christopher Owens RB- Rashad Jennings DL- Alex Magee WR- Austin Collie RB- Javon Ringer WR- Patrick Turner TE- Cameron Morrah QB- Stephen McGee TE- Richard Quinn RB- Kory Sheets DE- Kyle Moore QB- John Parker Wilson

The Baltimore Ravens select: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/hou/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/2185121.jpeg Sebastian Vollmer, OT, Houston

He does kind of contradict himself, but keep in mind from that question until the most recent mock there was a lag of a few days. So he did ultimately imply in that answer that Nicks could fall, and then came to the conclusion with his mock draft that he would. Could change again by the next mock. And as I've said before, I don't think his answers are the gospel, but its good to hear from someone than just Kiper, and he isn't a random guy. He has sources. Would I put them against Kiper's? No, but I can't also just ask Kiper a question on a message board whenever I have one. Take it for what its worth, basically.

Here's some more Bear related draft stuff at RealGM. His latest mock has: 49: Hakeem Nicks, WR, NCU 99: Jason Phillips, LB, TCU I'd be surprised to see Nicks fall that far, and thats a situation where even if you addressed WR in FA, that would be too good of value to pass up. I like the one bolded part above, if true.

Okay here's a more in depth view. This time I used the trade value chart. I didn't account for comp picks so after round three, its just based off the rounds and not the true overall value. Anyone after Rd 7 pick 32 just got a value of two. I put one with Hester on offense and the other with Hester on defense. I still used the 100%, 80%, 60% rule. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/snetsrak43/bears.jpg Then add in the addition of Cutler, who I'd say if you could put a value on him draft wise would be top 5, so thats 1,500+ pts in value. And three new lineman, two of whom should start. Yea, our defense has gotten the shaft a little. We could use some picks, especially since our one main offensive need will be hard to fill through the draft with an immediate impact. Edit- If you take away the 100,80,60% rule, the numbers are With Hester on Offense: Offense: 3,213 Defense: 1,511 With Hester on Defense: Offense: 2,883 Defense: 1,841 EditII- Also, if I had gone back 4 years. The 2005 draft: 2005 1 1 4 4 Cedric Benson RB Texas 2 2 7 39 Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma 3 4 5 106 Kyle Orton QB Purdue 4 5 4 140 Airese Currie WR Clemson 5 6 7 181 Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe 6 7 6 220 Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina

Well, he was drafted at defense, so you should change that. As for your last point, that has nothing to do with ignoring defense. The fact that guys aren't here means they drafted the wrong guys and/or there were guys already here that were better enough to make them worthless. The Bears haven't ignored defense. They've pretty much drafted equals amounts of both over the past three years. They just have wasted too many picks on failed defensive players. My quantitative breakdown would disagree, even if you shifted Hester over to defense, which you would be silly, so I won't. And you do have to look at how your picks have turned out when determining what you're gonna do next. The fact that two of our highest defensive picks flamed out says a lot. And beyond the draft, most of our acquisitions in trade and free agency have gone to the offense. Time to put some youth into the defense, because I think we could get some impact players, and I don't see that with WR (pretty much the only offensive position you could justify taking an early pick with.

I did count Hester as offense. I was kind of unsure where to put him, but I thought about it and went offense for two reasons: 1. He was drafted as a KR, with whatever benefit he had as a DB thought of as just added benefit. 2. He's on offense now. Also, I realize the numbers are arbitrary and like you said, Olsen and Manning are a lot closer in value, but it was easier to go by round, just for a simple explanation. Also, I thought about adding a breakdown of not only the pick we made, but whos still here now. If I did that, it would shift even more towards the offense.

Bears need defensive help in this draft. Here is my attempt to break down how we've ignored defense. Past three years, the offensive/defensive breakdown in the draft: I assigned values based on the round: 1st- 10, 2nd - 8, 3rd - 6, 4th - 4, 5th - 2, 6th/7th - 1 Kind of a "Time Value" thing, I multiple the total of two years ago by .8, and 3 years by .6 Offense 1,2,3,5,7,7,7=10+8+6+2+1+1+1=29 1,3,4,7=10+6+4+1=21*.8= 16.8 2,6,6=8+1+1=10:*.6=6 Total=51.8 Defense 3,4,5,7,7=6+4+2+1+1=14 2,3,5,5,7=8+6+2+2+1=19*.8=15.2 (keep in mind, those first two aren't even here anymore- Bauzin,Okwo) 2,3,4,5=8+6+4+2=20*.6=12 Total=41.2 FA/Trade acquisitions Past two years: Defense: Archuleta Adams Bullocks Offense: Cutler Pace Shaffer Omilaye Jones Booker Lloyd (I may be forgetting some, especially small signings, but thats a pretty good idea). I'd say we've focused a lot on the offense, not just this off season, but the past three years. Let's see some defense at the top of this draft.

My needs as of now (hopefully we sign a WR and I change it) WR FS DL LB CB OL I really think we'll find a WR in FA, a decent #2 guy, so my ideal draft would look something like: 2- Jarron Gilbert - San Jose St - DL 3- Rashad Johnson - Alabama - S 4- Ramses Barden - Cal Poly - WR 5- Michael Bennett - Texas A&M - DE 5- Nate Davis - Ball State - QB 6- Brandon Hughes -Oregon St - CB 7- Dave Philistin - Maryland- LB 7- Ramon Foster - Tennessee - OL Some particular guys might change, but position wise and stuff, that looks good. Then my roster would be: QB- Cutler, Davis, Hanie, Basanez (P.S.) RB- Forte, Jones, Wolfe, Peterson FB- Davis (if you find another vet or UDFA to compete, cool) WR- Hester, #2 FA, Bennet, Davis, Barden, Rideau (P.S.) TE- Olsen, Clark, Davis OT- Pace, Williams, Shaffer, Foster (P.S) OG- Beekman, Omilaye, Garza, Buenning C- Kreutz DE-Brown, Ogunleye, Anderson, Bennett DT- Harris, Dvoracek, Harrison, Adams DL- Gilbert, Idonije OLB- Briggs, Hillenmeyer, Roach, Williams, LaRqocque, ILB- Urlacher, Philistin (P.S.) CB- Tillman, Vasher, Graham, McBride, Hamilton, Hughes (P.S.) FS- Johnson, Bowman, Bullocks SS- Payne, Steltz DB/KR- Manning K- Gould P- Maynard LS- Mannely Possible cuts: Garza, Buenning, Adams, LaRocque, Bullocks, Hamilton Other Borderline P.S./roster fillers: Reed (G), Balogh (T), Mines (TE), Clermond (DE), Toeaina (DT), Burgess (CB), Earl (S), Baldwin (DE), Aromashodu (WR), Broussard (WR) So I think the biggest need right now is for the Bears to find a reliable stop gap #2 type receiver. Holt obviously would be great as a #1, but I don't see it happening, so we need to either look into the shaky background guys like Matt Jones or Plaxico, or older receivers like Amani Toomer or Joe Jurevicius. Not the sexiest names out there, but we don't need our #2 guy to a huge threat just yet, just reliable. Olsen, Clark, Hester, and Forte will get a lot of touches still. The defense on the other hand I think isn't too far from being good, it just needs to have a little youth injected into it, particularly at S and DL. I'd love to address those two spots with our first two picks. If we ignore the defense too much though, I think we'll be looking at it in a year or two and wondering how we are ever going to fix it. Most likely a WR at 2 will be a project type player. If we want a project, I'm sure we can find a high risk guy in round 4 who fell because of injury concerns or something along those lines. And there won't be pressure to perform right away. On the other hand I think we can find some immediate impact guys for the defense in round 2 and 3. Basically our offense has been improved a lot with Cutler, Pace, Shaffer, and hopefully continued improvement from Hester, Forte, and Olsen. Our defense has been largely ignored so far, and has been declining the past few seasons. Lets please fix the defense and hope our improvements to the offense have been enough (including signing a decent vet WR)

Fotenot snubbed.

I was actually just reading about the bid in the USA Today yesterday and only something like 25% of construction is permanent. The main Olympic stadium is on the south side and will be stripped down to a 7,500 seat stadium after. I guess the IOC's reccommendations are for there to not be too many permanent structures. Here it is: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2009-04-05-chicago-ioc-bid_N.htm

You're right it doesn't change the equation really. Even if Angelo had a good track record with first rounders, I'd probably still like this deal.

I mean, yea Olsen could blow out his knee and never be the same, but that wouldn't really reflect our ability to draft. Based on talent and ability, Olsen should make it to the starter level at the very least.

I think Columbo's and Harris's rankings are fine. Its Thierry and Haynes that belong with the busts. Also, if you don't throw out the past two years, Olsen looks like he'll be at least somewhere inbetween "starter" and "very good starter". Williams is a complete unknown at this point.

^Awesome.

Well I won't pretend to be an expert, but Seth Olsen (Iowa) and Xavier Fulton (Illinois) are both good T/G prospects left. Not sure there are any pure guards worth the pick. Defensively, I like: Dorell Scott, DT Scott McKillop, ILB Courtney Greene, S/DB Darcel McBath, S Hopefully that gives you a good idea. Value wise, I'll say McKillop is your best bet, but I'm not sure who you have at ILB.