Transmogrified Tiger

Cards. :twisted: If Neifi goes to the Cards and does well, I may lose hope and interest in the game of baseball.

It's pretty straightforward, if you can't get on base more than 30% of the time, whether 28% or 21% is a hit, you just aren't a good offensive player. All those players you mention make significantly less outs, and they do so with more power. That's the name of the game right there. Again, putting entirely too much stock into OBP. If you're batting .280, you're doing something right. Something right, but not enough. The goal of offense is to not make outs, and Neifi makes too many outs(otherwise known as a low OBP) to be any good offensively. No, the goal of the offense isn't to not make outs - it's to score runs. That's how you win ballgames. And not to sound like Dusty Baker, but walks don't score you runs... in certain situations. Man on 3rd, or man on 2nd, you need a hit to get him home. Walking will just keep him there. And no, I'm not undermining the importance of the walk - just saying that, again, you can't just look at OBP. It's not just walks. In that situation, 30% of the time Neifi will get on base, 28% of the time drive him in. Compare that to a .260/.350 hitter, who gets on base 35% of the time, and 26% of the time knocks him in. Walks won't knock that runner in, but what Neifi does instead of walk, which for the vast majority is make outs, won't get him in either.

It's pretty straightforward, if you can't get on base more than 30% of the time, whether 28% or 21% is a hit, you just aren't a good offensive player. All those players you mention make significantly less outs, and they do so with more power. That's the name of the game right there. Again, putting entirely too much stock into OBP. If you're batting .280, you're doing something right. Something right, but not enough. The goal of offense is to not make outs, and Neifi makes too many outs(otherwise known as a low OBP) to be any good offensively.

It's pretty straightforward, if you can't get on base more than 30% of the time, whether 28% or 21% is a hit, you just aren't a good offensive player. All those players you mention make significantly less outs, and they do so with more power. That's the name of the game right there.

2 good offensive seasons back to back is luck? He wasn't hitting as a catcher because it wore him down to much...ever since he started playing different positions aside of catcher (CF, LF, and mainly 3B) he's been a good offensive player. No, hitting 30 points better than your BABIP says you should makes you lucky. Erm, Inge's BABIP this year is .315, and his BABIP last year was .316. Not only are those numbers somewhat consistent (though his strikeouts and home run rates have both deteriorated significantly enough this year, which is why his average has dipped to a bleh .263), but they're not particularly high or lucky. Huh, THT has him at .320 this year and .322 last year, both at least 25 points higher than his 18% LD% might predict.

:?: Are you talking about your previous post? You (I assume accidentally) put it inside the quote, a common mishap.

I'll admit, I haven't looked this up, but how many 2-0 counts has Neifi been in this year? I don't remember many PAs where he didn't swing at one of the first 2 pitches. Neifi is one of those players that you don't have to throw a strike to in order to get them out. He doesn't have a low OBP b/c no one will walk him, he has a low OBP b/c he swings at everything. Just yesterday, Len & Bob were saying on the air that Neifi isn't known to walk or take a lot of pitches. He's a hacker. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad hitter. The fact that he has a .300 OBP w/ little power means he's a bad hitter. If I'm reading this right, 51 of Neifi's 497 AB's have gotten to a 2-0 count or beyond, that's 10%. By comparison, Patterson is 44 of 400 AB's have gotten there(11%), 14 of Macias's 133 ABs(10%), and 80 of Lee's 528 AB's(15%) have reached a 2-0 count.

This thread is probably a long time overdue. There was a similar discussion in yesterday's game thread though. The point I made there and the one I believe some are making here is not that Neifi is a great player; rather he has contributed quite a bit this year and people still villify him like no one else on the team. I know everyone will not agree with this, but, in terms of relative suckiness, Neifi has been way overcriticized relative to Patterson. While lately the Patterson defenders have been quiet (no other choice), there were plenty of excuses being made for him earlier in the year as he flailed away and played with his head up his ass. I am not saying there wasn't any criticism of Patterson; it's just that there wasn't enough of it compared to the grief perez received. People just seem to hate Perez's game no matter what he does. That's fine. But if you hate his game PLEASE do not say a single word defending Patterson or making any excuses for him. But it's okay for you and others to bash Corey and defend Neifi? Give me a break. Patterson has sucked this year, and there are a multitude of reasons why that could be. It could be his new swing, it could be him taking the same approach and pitchers adjusting, it could be him being a selfish jerk and trying to do things his way, whatever. Most of the defending of Patterson that's been done this year has been done against ridiculous attacks on his character. No one's ever accused Neifi of being stubborn even though he put up bad numbers this year and has put up awful numbers his entire career. Yet Patterson, coming off consecutive seasons that gave us reasonable production for a CF at a reasonable price with good D, gets villified because he won't change that approach. People get so much more frustrated with Patterson simply because of strikeouts. While they are a result of a problem in his approach, people just don't tolerate them as much as other outs, even though the majority of the time they act as the same thing as another out. I can almost guarantee you if you switched Neifi's and Patterson's rate stats for the year, people would still be more upset with Patterson because of the blasted strikeouts. And finally, the claim that Patterson hasn't been criticized in proportion with Neifi is entirely untrue. People have been on Corey's case for years just like others have been on Neifi's case since he was signed. Perhaps the fact that Patterson was demoted and therefore has 100 less AB's has something to do with this perception.

As much as I'd like to see Hill or another young arm get a shot at a rotation slot next year, I must also stick up for my boy Rusch. He's once again having a tough-luck season in the ERA department. His Fielding-Independent ERA is actually among the best on the team, coming in at 3.67. That puts him right between Prior and Zambrano and is a far sight better than his actual ERA of 4.62. For whatever reason, Rusch just seems to be one of those pitchers whose results just don't match up to his peripheral stats. At what point to you come to the conclusion that he's either cursed or just bound to have a worse ERA than expected though? Last year was the only year of his career where he had an ERA near his DERA, as you of course know since you wrote an article on it.

Farnsworth 2004: 1.50 WHIP, 10.53 K/9, 2.36 K/BB Conclusion: Head case, get him out of here, too inconsistent Novoa 2005: 1.50 WHIP, 9.51 K/9, 1.8 K/BB Conclusion: Promising middle relief prospect Anyone seeing the problem here?

I understand that Dusty was relating Steve Garvey's motivation to win that he gathered when he wasn't feeling like playing. That doesn't even come close to answering the question he was asked. I also think you're better than this. You're a smart guy, you could definitely do better than repeatedly bringing up a discussion of semantics when it comes to the degree in which people use words to describe Dusty's shortcomings.

Everyone repeatedly takes their best shot against Federer and it's not good enough. Much more dominating than Tiger IMO, although Golf and Tennis don't make for good comparisons.

2 good offensive seasons back to back is luck? He wasn't hitting as a catcher because it wore him down to much...ever since he started playing different positions aside of catcher (CF, LF, and mainly 3B) he's been a good offensive player. No, hitting 30 points better than your BABIP says you should makes you lucky.

Anyone know how they spell luck nowadays? It's spelled I-N-G-E.

It's ridiculous. Don't worry, he'll get the next long relief appearance, and when he gets hit because he hasn't pitched in nearly 2 weeks, that will prove Dusty right.

How is "Dusty is biased against rookies just because they are rookies" any different than "Dusty overvalues major league experience"? Clearly if you overvalue major league experience, then you are predisposed against, otherwise called biased against, people who lack that experience.

More than half the posts in this thread are wondering what Dusty was saying, with some cheap seats references thrown in. I count exactly one poster relating this quote to Dusty playing young players, which he certainly has a right to do so. Maybe your knee-jerk reaction to a Dusty quote thread so it supports your "posters go too far with Dusty hate" theory is what should be questioned. All it comes down to is semantics. Dusty doesn't like to play young players. No, he overvalues major league experience. That person is a racist/sexist. No, they overvalue being white/male. It's just a matter of degrees, and many people take it further than you personally like, because they are tired of the same nonsense for the last 2 years. I didn't want to have to spell things out like this, but now I feel I must. Clearly, CP20, I was not addressing the fans in this thread who were not trying to use this quote to whip Dusty Baker. Why bring up the posts that were about Cheap Seats? Why not address the other ones? Do you think they were justified in what they wrote about Baker given the quote in question? You accuse me of having a knee-jerk reaction to a Dusty quote thread. That would imply that you think my post is completely unjustified. Do you? If so, please make a case to support such an accusation. The reason to bring up the number of people who aren't needlessly bashing Dusty in this thread is because of your exaggeration in your original post of "is it even worth calling out everyone who needlessly attacked Dusty in this thread". Only a couple out of the 20 odd posts in the thread relate the quote to Dusty's performance. The rest are just calling him out for saying something that didn't make any sense. Your post is completely unjustified, since you've obviously done the same thing that you are accusing people of. You assumed that what everyone was saying was the worst possible interpretation so that it supported your "everyone takes things too far with Dusty" crusade. And, you missed the point on the racism/sexist arguments. Your whole argument of "Dusty doesn't hate young players, he (over)values major league experience" is pretty much saying the exact same thing. Some people may choose the former because of their emotions towards Dusty, or a flair for the dramatic/sarcastic. It's a pointless campaign to trying to get people to use the nicest possible language when criticizing a player/manager. Hyperbole is not always bad, and in some cases it's not even hyperbole. I don't think you can say that it clearly makes sense. I read it three times and then posted that I had no idea what he was talking about. If someone wants to say that a quote that they think doesn't make any sense makes him look like an idiot, I think that's well within reason. But then again, this shows your leap to think that everyone completely understood what he was saying, and therefore were unnecessarily bashing Dusty.

Anyone see this on TV?

Man, I was watching that game. I was thinking "When did you hire Greg Robinson as your defensive coordinator?" Was the fumble that became a TD legit? I couldn't believe they didn't overturn that. And that was a pathetic defensive performance. Smith was above average. He overthrew every ball of more than 10 yards, but had two ridiculous TD runs. I think on one of them he shook a lineman that had both arms around him. But since we couldn't stop a pass to #18, it was all for naught.

Dusty is not good at making lineups. Neifi gets a crucial day of rest after playing 9 consecutive games.

And he boots the PAT attempt off the upright. 6-0 I cannot understand how a player at that level can miss a PAT. It's too close, all you have to do is chip the thing to get height.

My bad, I saw the side judge running in, and assumed that it was past when the play was dead.

Terrible call. By the time that guy grabbed the ball, it was well after the whistle. You can't overturn that call.

With 8 seconds left and a TO left, they had the ball on the right hash at the KSU 23(roughly). They decided to try and gain some yardage, BY PASSING, and it got picked off.

Perfect example of why QB play is so important. It's a huge reason why OSU won't win anything big this year. They had magic with Krenzel, but Smith and Zwick aren't going to win a championship.