XZero771679666304

I seriously hope they don't lock this and the Ian Stewart threads. It's just mind-blowing incredible. Also... who is this Neely guy? It looks like he joined here a long time ago, but I don't remember him being on here since I've joined (in 2009 although I've been reading this site since 2007)... until now. Did someone FDB?? He used to post more consistently years ago. It wasn't until this outburst that I realized it had been so long. He's definitely not da bum.

Jenkins played nearly 10 full seasons (8 at the beginning of his career) with the Cubs and was good for 50 WAR. He won a CYA in 1971 and placed in the top 3 in three of his first 8 other seasons with the Cubs. Jenkins was a Cub for longer, and was better while he was. If you subtract his years with the Cubs, Fergie is not a HoF pitcher. Not nearly. Maddux was a first ballot HOFer, but he was that on the back of what he did in 11 years with the Braves, which is a [expletive] tragedy.

The schedule definitely started off a lot more grueling than it will finish. That's a huge part of the reason I said there's no way the Cubs lose 100 games.

Well yeah, there's that too.

Because Maddux was better. Maddux spent the meat of his career in another uniform. I could certainly understand the Braves effusively memorializing Maddux. Though Maddux was quite good with Chicago, it feels a little dishonest to me that the Cubs retired his number, like it was done in part to alleviate the regret over letting him get away to do what he did in Atlanta. It is true that Maddux actually produced more WAR with Chicago than Kerry did and Greg is awesome, but seeing that 31 flag flying just strikes me wrong somehow, like those 11 years in the middle went differently than they did. Kerry's numbers alone probably aren't worthy of retirement, but he is the living embodiment of the last decade plus of Cubs baseball: ups and downs, frustration, unmet promise and perseverance. The bottom line for me is that I'd have a hard time imagining another player wearing 34, while I don't feel that way about 31.

Grace is a crass, chain-smoking ass. That said, he was really good (not great) for a long time. I couldn't bring myself to feel more than indifference towards him unless it was revealed he was a murderer/rapist/molester/terrorist. Or unless he regularly took my mom around the world like he did to SSR's. As for Wood, it Maddux's number is retired, Kerry's should be. He obviously wasn't nearly the pitcher Greg was, but he did have all his best days as a Cub and has a much stronger association with the team (both in success and failure) than Maddux does.

W/L says a lot, but isn't the sole indicator of how good or bad a team is. Of course it isn't, and nowhere did I say it was, but it's silly to shrug off building from 85 losses or 105 losses like there's little difference. One shouldn't shrug off the W-L record, but it should be looked at subjectively. For example, if Castro, Rizzo, Stewart and the catchers have strong years, Garza and Shark deal all year but the bullpen continues to be an absolute disaster and the team loses 95-100 games, I'm not much more concerned than if the bullpen had been decent and the team only lost 85 games.

At this point my focus is on this year the performance/development of players who look to be a part of the future (Castro, Shark, Garza, Rizzo, Castillo, Clevenger, Dolis, etc.) and players who could be (Stewart). If it looks like we have a good core of position players and a few strong SP, that's promising regardless of what the W-L is at the end of the year.

W/L says a lot, but isn't the sole indicator of how good or bad a team is. And this team isn't losing 105 games.

who else makes your top 5 besides kemp and lahair? LaHair? Hamilton, Kemp, Braun, Cabrera and Votto are all guys I think are better than Albert at this point. Of course Hamilton is Elijah Price so I wouldn't dish out a 10 year deal to him, but the list of guys I'd rather give a decade long deal to than Pujols extends well beyond that list of five. I just think it's entirely possible we've seen the last 5+ WAR/1.000 OPS season of Albert's career. The last time he was legitimately the best player in the league was 2009, and he dropped 2 WAR/.100 OPS in 2010 and another 2 WAR/.100 OPS in 2011. If you look at this year's performance to date in that context, it's hard to feel good about where this is headed. Clearly he's not going to finish 2012 with a .510 OPS and a negative WAR, but there's a clear trend developing. Clearly, for the better part of the last decade Albert Pujols was the best player many of us have seen over an extended period. That said, I think for many wonderment over what he has done is obfuscating what he is doing. He has slipped from the top in WAR to the bottom of the top 5 to out of the top 10 to god knows what this year (ZiPS has him at 3.2-3.8). His babip has been declining, but his plate approach has been degrading at an alarming rate. He's been a bit unlucky this year, but overall his numbers are in decline. He had a blip in 2007, but this is a whole other animal as his drop in production correlates with a marked degradation in plate discipline. Is he just pressuring himself? Doubtful, because his O-swing, BB%, BB/K% have all been clearly trending in the wrong direction dating back to 2010. Is he trying to compensate for something (age?, slowed bat?) by being more aggressive? Who knows. But this much isn't debatable - He fell off his career pace a bit in 2010, followed it up with his worst MLB season in 2011 and even if he recovers this season is likely to have a worse season yet. Is it possible last year was an aberration due to a slow start and this year has been an aberration due to poor luck and high pressure? Maybe, but I doubt it. At the very least, the situation has gotten to the point where a little incredulity at the notion the Pujols is still the best player in the game is perfectly reasonable, especially with the emergence of some really good players.

Do you really think that's what he is..........now? The ground is always shifting. New blood... always coming. He wasn't last year and he sure isn't now. People keep calling him that, but unless he goes on a prodigious tear starting immediately this will be his third consecutive year of marked decline. From his numbers to his approach, he hasn't been HoF Pujols for a while. All the "but it's Pujols" talk is sounding increasingly hollow. He's certainly not the best player in baseball right now. I'm not sure I have him top 5.

Hamilton is a conundrum. He's spectacular when healthy, but he's an injury time bomb. That said, I'd pay him a boatload on a 3-4 year contract.

I still think 2006's is worse, though there's still time. I think it can only get better, honestly.

lol, since Mark Grace. Starlin [expletive] careers like Mark Grace's in prison. Try Ernie Banks. You were either drunk when you posted this or you lack communication skills. I'm guessing you're a Sox fan. Good guess! Plus I'm pretty sure SSR came home one day and found Mark Grace acting out the Kama Sutra with his mom.

Well god knows Mitch doesn't want Trumbo at 1B. He probably expects a red carpet and rose petals to be laid out for Howard when he comes back. I've rarely seen a guy all over another's jock as squarely as Williams is planted on Ryan Howard's. And I'm not surprised he'd trade Hamels for Trumbo, Mitch is a true HR/RBI guy. I love MLB Network, but Wild Thing is a freaking caveman.

Good lord, does Sutcliffe ever say anything informed? He just talks out of his ass.

Good [expletive] god with all the bunting

Rizzo

Rizzo with #12

That was one of the most ill-conceived sequences I have ever witnessed.

I'm not saying Kobe is overrated (or that he isn't), but only one of those things is an actual measure of performance. You could say those points are proof he is overrated. If you're going to make a case, try some stats/metrics.

Welp, it's been interesting, at least.

Castro's pitch selection seems to be getting worse.

Dammit

Just an injection short