Soul

so now it's a burgeoning conspiracy theory? The non-subscriber article seems more like a drug-induced ramble than a well-reasoned piece of journalism. He's basically saying that all the players the A's got back could suck. Yeah, that's true. So what? So could LaPorta. And Harden could implode too. The trade was risk for risk. Period. And Beane didn't suddenly take a bottle of stupid pills, so he might want to consider that before rambling on as if he knows everything about all these players.

Alright well forget everything I said about Marquis being replaced with Marshall if he struggles. Apparently Marquis will be allowed to sink this ballclub despite all the other progress we've made, and even if there's a much better option rotting @ Iowa!! ARRRGH! :banghead:

if you're going to trade a player, you trade him to the team that gives your team the better chance for winning. even if that team is in your division That's not how it often works out, you know that.

i hope so, and i hope he kills their annoying team in the process What in the world is annoying about the Rays? They clobbered us, and their fans are ridiculously horrible. um...more so the latter... i live in the tampa bay area man...it is bloody different here...they are DUMB Well, and their ballpark is completely ridiculous. It should be a crime that a major league game is played there. I really like what the Rays have done, but there are some legit reasons to find them annoying. Next time we have an interleague game against them, let's have it on an actual baseball field and see what happens.

From what I understand, the deal hinged around Gally, not Murton and/or EPatt. I wouldn't discount Gallagher like some others seem to. He's very young yet, doesn't have an injury history, and has shown some signs of being a solid rotation guy. Beane's not going to be able to rape our entire minor league system for a pitcher who has done 9 DL stints in the past 6 years. He knows that. Whether or not he's an ace when he's healthy is mitigated by the injury history. Tell me this. You are in sell mode, and there is only a small handful of top tier starters who will be available at the deadline. Would you take a package of Sean Gallagher, Eric Patterson, Matt Murton and Josh Donaldson for Harden and Gaudin? Please remember that teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox and Angels might be bidding on Harden's services, also. To me, gambling on Harden's health is the other team's problem, not Beane's. It's Beane's job to get the best possible return for dealing Harden, and I don't think he did that. I'm thankful he didn't, but this is most definitely not a shining moment for Beane. Heck, I think the Cardinals could have thrown together a better package than the Cubs gave up. Essentially, the Cubs gave up a guy who has yet to define a defensive position and his major league bat is suspect (Patterson), a guy who the Cubs have basically shown no need and probably wouldn't land a starting OF job on any major league team (Murton), a guy who has the potential to be a major league catcher some day, but he's not a top tier prospect (Donaldson), and a young pitcher who will likely fill the back end of their rotation for the next several years (Gallagher). Granted, Gallagher has value, but not the kind of value I would expect Rich Harden to command during a pennant race and with lots of big market teams hot after him. Essentially, Harden was dealt before most teams were even aware he was available. This deal was done quickly, quietly and apparently somewhat privately. Kudos to Hendry. I don't give him those very often, but it's warranted here. Well, if you're going to throw teams like the Yanks and Red Sox and Angels into the mix, then do you trade Harden to a team where he can come back to haunt you, or do you send him somewhere where he can't? Especially the Angels -- Beane would have to be nuts to hand Harden over to them, I would think. I really don't know what the Cardinals were thinking, or the Dodgers. I suppose if they were really interested, then kudos to Hendry for heading that off at the pass. But do you really think it's realistic to say that they have no idea what's going on? I don't think you're giving them enough credit. Maybe we're not giving Hendry enough credit, too. This was a good deal, though there is that risk.

He was DFA'd to make room for Konerko, right? Yeah. Konerko or Ozuna. Not much difficulty making that choice.

I just read one poster who said that Gallagher was a number 1 starter. I bet he used to post here... I'll bet that guy thought much less of Gallagher before the trade. I'm just sayin......there's a certain amount of hypocrisy going on in BrewCrew land right now. According to some of them, Harden was an ace yesterday, but now that he's a Cub, he "might make a decent #4 starter." I'm not making this stuff up.

i hope so, and i hope he kills their annoying team in the process What in the world is annoying about the Rays? They clobbered us, and their fans are ridiculously horrible.

This is their best hope at finishing over .500. ....which, let's face it, might be enough to win that crappy division.

From what I understand, the deal hinged around Gally, not Murton and/or EPatt. I wouldn't discount Gallagher like some others seem to. He's very young yet, doesn't have an injury history, and has shown some signs of being a solid rotation guy. Beane's not going to be able to rape our entire minor league system for a pitcher who has done 9 DL stints in the past 6 years. He knows that. Whether or not he's an ace when he's healthy is mitigated by the injury history.

Especially since he really won't be able to hurt us if he does :good:

I hate to say it, but things started to turn around when the Trib gave him the resources to overpay for Soriano.

Yeah. But combine that with a vague quote or two and you've got a lot of people talking about a significant drop in velocity. Of course, I have a feeling nobody actually looked at his readings. When commentators and columnists mention velocity, it's based off a couple of readings on TV or with the stadium gun. It certainly isn't comprehensive. Well Stoney apparently mentioned Harden's velocity, so now in every Sox fan's mind we just acquired a pitcher who's arm is shredded. And that immediately starts radiating out on every Chicago radio station, and their message boards. Then Milwaukee picks it up and runs with it. So yeah, you're right. There's always concern with a guy like Harden, but for now the velocity has been fine. I will give Sox fans some credit though. I was listening to B&B yesterday afternoon, and a couple Sox fans called in and said we just acquired a clear top of the rotation guy, and that Hendry pulled off a good deal.

He's right that the loss of Gallagher shouldn't be discounted, but he's wrong about the reasons. Marshall's the guy if Marquis falters. My God, have you ever seen a pitcher who is more invisible than Sean Marshall? The guy goes out there and pitches decently on a fairly consistent basis, yet it's like he doesn't exist. The loss of Gally is something that will likely be felt in '09, or beyond. We've got the arms for this year to handle the 5th spot, good Marquis or bad Marquis.

Gally will have a blast in Oakland. I wish him the best. It's actually a really good thing for Murton to now be on a team where he will get an actual shot. Like it or not, things weren't shaping up for him to ever be more than a 4th outfielder for the Cubs, given who was ahead of him.

I don't think you can take the 7/1 start and conclude "his velocity is in trouble." I'm not sure why people would look at that and make that conclusion, other than anti-Cub bias. The fastball looks to have been pretty consistent all year long. Who knows what was going on 7/1, but if the guy comes right back to his normal velocity in his next start, it's pretty difficult to justify being concerned about that. How many times has one of our pitchers done the same? Now, if it's 3 or 4 starts in a row, then yea, I think some concern is justified.

Well, I think you're being just a *tad* too kind, but I'll go with it. It's interesting to listen to the opinions of Gallagher, Murton, and Epatt change -- from "a bunch of bozos" when the trade just went down, to "hey Beane might have gotten a pretty good deal after all" now they they aren't Cub prospects, but Oakland prospects instead. Pretty funny.

On that note (the splitter), I was listening to Milwaukee radio yesterday and the two bozos on there were talking about the Harden trade. They said Harden could be a decent #4, which about caused me to run my truck into the ditch with laughter. But they also claimed that Harden is "a 2 pitch pitcher now. He's afraid to throw his splitter because it will land him back on the DL." Anyone know if this is true or not?

Torres will likely fade as well. I wonder if the Crew would nab Marte and make him their closer?

It's Petco. I love Mad Dog, but I don't think he would be much help for us over what we already have at the back of the rotation.

Yes, this deal is better than the CC deal IMO. The Brewers either make it to the World Series this year, or face '09 with no CC and no Sheets unless they spend more money than they want to. Even if Harden were to break down, we would still be in the same pitching situation we were always in -- that got us to 54 wins. Plus, Rich can rehab for next year and we come back even stronger in '09. It's a better deal, period.

Not to get too granular about this (and not to be a pain in the arse), but wont the avg velocity be heavily impacted by pitch mix? Has that been pretty constant? No, it's only looking at fastballs. I'm sure there's a better way, but I did a quick SUMIF divided by COUNTIF based on whether it was a fastball: 7/6 - 92.79 MPH average fastball 7/1 - 90.57 MPH average fastball - There's your point for concern 6/26 - 92.14 MPH average fastball 5/28 - 92.16 MPH average fastball His chart from the 7/1 game: http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/speed.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2008/month_07/day_01/gid_2008_07_01_oakmlb_anamlb_1//pbp/pitchers/425848.xml&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1 I don't see much dropoff at all there. But, given Harden's injury history, of course I'm always going to be a little concerned. Actually, I was just listening to Hendry on Mike & Mike and he was pretty open about realizing that we're taking a risk with Harden. The reward is potentially very high though.

Meh, they had the luckiest month ever last year to get them to the World Series. No doubt. This is the rubber band snapping back.

Marmol's slider is starting to break better lately.

:rotfl: :rotfl: I love me some Dusty ball.