Ibanez and his 88 OPS+ can sure rake it. I think Cub like offense is a pretty good description, outside of the fact that the Cubs have no one hitting like Victorino is It's also about what these guys are capable of. Utley, Rollins, and Howard are all in the primce of their careers, and have been underperforming for the most part, as opposed to our guys, like Soriano, Byrd, and Pena, who are putting up the numbers that can pretty much be expected of them at this stage in their careers, although Rollins is somewhat more questionable judging by his past 2 seasons. Utley is 32, Rollins is 32, Howard is turning 32 this year. Not all that different from the Cubs you mentioned. Pena is 32, Byrd is 33, Soriano is 34. In the post-steroid era 32 is around the time the downside from peak performance starts for many, but not all players. But the fact remains, these are better players than the ones we have, and really can't be compared to our guys. Yeah, they don't have a ton of talen built around those 5 guys, but looking around the NL, there arent exactly a lot of offensive powerhouses like they have in the AL. This Phillies offense should be good for at least 4-6 runs per game, and when you have the pitching they have, that should be good enough. I'd hope they'd be good for 4-6 runs per game, since the top 19 offenses in baseball fall into that range (including the Cubs). Saying they are similar to the Cubs is not an insult, its basically saying they are mediocre. And in terms of Utley, Howard and Rollins being better prime players than Soriano, Pena and Byrd, this is true but the margin is not huge. Howard always struck me as the kind of guy that when he slips he's done, so it doesn't exactly shock me he's been hovering around .800 OPS most of the year. That said, he's had a lot of seasons where he's been mediocre well into the summer only to get hot the rest of the year and carry the team. As a hitter, Rollins has always struck me as a little overrated. In terms of WAR, Byrd has actually outplayed Rollins over the last 4 seasons (11.3 WAR for Byrd, 9.6 for Rollins), and that includes defense. But yeah, even including what I said about Howard, both him and Utley are clearly better players, and are both performing better than Pena and Soriano this year. Despite that the Phillies offense is right around the same level as the Cubs. Cubs have the higher OPS, SLG and PA. Phillies with a higher OBP. And that includes taking into account Victorino's MVP caliber season, of which the Cubs have no match. If you look at the Cubs lineup by OPS+, the Cubs have/had 6 of their 8 regulars above 100, with Soto at 95 and Barney at 89 being the lowest regular. The Phillies have 4 regulars below 100, with 2 players with a worse than Barney's 89, Ibanez at 88 and All Star 3B Polanco at 85. Even if you factor in improvements to Utley and Howard, it doesn't really do much to discredit the statement "I think Cub like offense is a pretty good description, outside of the fact that the Cubs have no one hitting like Victorino is"