That's the problem, everybody just assumes that we could get as much from "the kids" as we would from someone like Lilly. Hill panned out, but who else was there? Well, let's go through last year's options: Marshall: Oft-injured, 5.59 ERA in 2006 Guzman: Oft-injured, 7.39 ERA (with Cubs) in 2006 Mateo: 5.32 ERA Marmol: Had to go on DL, 6.08 ERA If you think you can rely on those guys to do as well or even nearly as well as Lilly/Meche, you're really grasping at straws. Prior and Miller are also in the mix, but Prior will get hurt, and Miller has questions about his durability and stuff. If you go into next year with Zambrano, Hill, and three of the options listed above, you're accepting that the Cubs will be a lousy team again. That's fine, but don't delude yourself into thinking that this team would be in the playoff hunt. ... and you think Lilly and Meche are going to lead us to the promise land? ROFL I think out of those 4 guys you mentioned and Prior/Miller you get at least the production that Lilly/Meche +whoever would give you and probably better production.