Ryno12

My ultimate hope is that Tim Beckham will carry heavy signing demands, thus dropping to the 19th pick, where he is selected by the Cubs. It would be nice to have a bonified SS prospect in the system for the first time since Dunston.

I would say that any thread that has grown to 118 pages would have to be considered a success in itself. Not many theads grow this large. So, from a production standpoint, this thread is a potential Hall of Famer. Maybe we can get Meph to run some numbers for us to see it this is truly the case.

From Will Carroll's latest chat that is going on right now. Nothing groundbreaking, just figured I'd pass it along.

You've got to love small sample sizes where a guy can get a 53 point boost in OBP from 2 HBPs.

Im pretty sure that at the rate this thing is going, this thread may make it to 200 pages.

It may be a real thing, but it's value is artificially inflated. Guys who "can leadoff" are given greater market value, for no good reason. Roberts' value lies in his production numbers, not in his supposed ability to hit leadoff. There's nothing wrong with going after a player like Roberts, there is something wrong with going after a guy like Roberts because he can leadoff and thus paying a premium for that arbitrary qualification. I think people overstate the fact that a leadoff hitter only leads off once and forget the fact that he always bats before a teams heart of the order (unless the inning starts with the 3-4-5 hitters). What's lost on the whole lineup discussion is that your leadoff hitter and your 2-hitter are table-setters for your heart-of-the-order hitters. If lineup position was completely irrelevant, your best power hitters would not bat 3-4-5, they would be 1 or 2 or whereever (Soriano's ridiculous wishes excluded). Maybe, for semantics sake, we should call the leadoff hitter the: "sometimes-top-of-the-order, but-usually-table-setter-for-the-heart-of-the-order-guy". Maybe we'll need an acronym. STOTOBUTSFTHOTOG? Exactly, leadoff hitter is an arbitrary title, however, the fact remains that you want guys on base when your best hitters come to the plate. Therefore, since your best hitters generally hit 3-4-5, it make sense to put high OBP guys in front of them at the top of the order. That being said, guys like Brian Roberts should be valued for getting on base, along with his other attributes (speed, decent power, good defense), instead of for just being a leadoff hitter. However, it is those skills that make people call him "a legitimate leadoff hitter" that make him valuable.

I really wish we wouldn't have given up two pitchers in this deal. I thought Cedeno deserved another chance, but isn't a huge loss. However, our starting pitching depth is now lacking. I hate to see two young major league ready pitchers leave in a deal for one position player. That being said, Welcome aboard BRob!

Orioles Hangout Front Page is reporting Roberts to Cubs deal finalized. The article says the deal is Cedeno, Gallagher, and Marshall. Here's the link: http://www.orioleshangout.com/article.asp?ID=1297

Gonzalez and Guzman look interesting if solely because they made their pro debuts in the AZL at 17 or 18 and did ok. The Cubs obviously thought enough of them to skip the DSL and they didn't bomb out in Mesa (well, Marwin did horrible last year in the AZL but rebounded this year). Marwin has been playing everywhere for Mesa but it looks like his current natural positions are SS and 3B. I don't know if he has any filling out to do and how that might affect his position. Guzman is a SS guy at this stage but given his size, it sounds like he'll have to end up at 3B. Thanks Raisin! I appreciate the info.

Can I get excited about Marwin Gonzalez? It looks like he's been slumping of late, but it looks like he has some power potential and is young. From what I've gathered, he doesn't project to stick at SS, but where will he end up, 3B, LF, 1B? Any info on him is greatly appreciated. Also, does anyone have any info on Gian Guzman?

pie sucks, ronnys better I'm just trying to figure out where Meph's dislike for Pie is coming from. Pie has a solid track record throughout the Minors at below or at age-appropriate levels, plays above average defense, and shows potential to hit for power in a position where power is ussually an added bonus. I'm not saying Pie is going to develop into a great player, but I don't see how you can advocate for Cedeno, and rag on Pie. Cedeno is probably a better option than Theriot, but that's not saying much. What other than 177 ML abs and a bad Dominican League showing are you basing the "Pie sucks" statement on.

Tom Glavine Jeff Bagwell Jeff Kent Curt Schilling Derek Jeter

Juan Gonzalez was also listed twice.

Dusty also managed Jerry Hairston.

Yeah, I'd seen it on two posts today, and just thought I'd give you a hard time.

Geovany Soto (Couldn't resist) Between the two of them, though, we have a decent shot at one. David, I'm curious to know what percentage of your 5800 posts have been Geovany Soto? Maybe we can get Meph to do some calculations for us. :D

Soriano's contract doesn't look quite so bad in retrospect. Sure 8 yrs 136M is huge, but Jones and Hunter both got 18M/year. Sure the length isn't that long, but who knows what the market will be like at the end of Soriano's contract. I'd rather the Cubs sign Soriano to 8/136 that Hunter at 5/90.

Can we now trade the Sox Marquis or Dempster for Orlando Cabrera. It's not like they're going to win anytime soon, and by the time they are in a position to win, Cabrera will be declining. Sarcasm intended.

Scott to the O's pretty much means no Murton in a deal for Roberts, correct?

I think that if Theriot has another month like September this year, Cedeno will get his chance.

That is the only chance I see Cedeno getting a spot to earn the starting job, unless Theriot faulters mightily at some point during the season. As of right now, Theriot is going to be the starter. I believe that Cedeno would outproduce Theriot this year, but unless he's given a chance to earn the starting nod, it won't happen. That is why I am advocating for them to compete over it in S.T.

If Cedeno is truly better, then he needs to show up at S.T. and show it. If Theriot outproduces him there, he will be the guy. I'm not advocating for either, but giving the job to Cedeno without having him show that he can hit above AAA is foolish. Make him earn the position, and same with Theriot.

I agree that going forward, Cedeno has much greater potential than Theriot, and Cedeno should get a fair shot at winning the the starting job in S.T. I personally would like to see an upgrade over both, though no such options (aside from Tejada) appear to be availiable. The fact is, Lou believes that Theriot is the right guy at SS right now. So, unless Ronnie can figure it out and take the job from Theriot in S.T. You guys had better prepare yourselves for another year of Theriot. Also, people don't like Theriot because he's short and white, they like him because he has a cool nickname "The Riot". :wink:

Sorry to bump this thread, but I jsut had to share this. Last night I was talking to an old roommate of mine who is a Cardinals fan. I asked him, did you see that the Cardinals signed Cesar Izturis? He got all excited, and was like really?! I had intended to rub it in that the Cards had signed him, but instead he tells me, "He was a stud for my fantasy team in 2004."

From the quick search I did for him, he looks to be a pitcher that was converted from catcher. He is a big Righthander at 6'5" 250lbs. As was already stated, his stats don't look overwhelming, but I don't know anything about his stuff. Sidenote: The other converted catcher to pitcher on our roster is doing alright (Carlos Marmol).