ya know, Haren's a nice pitcher, but has he really proven anything other than being a Ted Lilly type starter? Nolasco looks to have a future, but 89 ERA+ isn't anything to set your hair on fire about. Hirsch hasn't done anything at all in the majors. I guess my point is, those trades look lopsided in terms of potential and what they brought the receiving team in the long term, but potential hasn't been met and the long term yet to be seen. Haren's already made the Cards look a little silly, but if Nolasco doesn't step his game up and Hirsch doesn't pan out...so what that those players were traded for those players? Haren accomplished something in each of the last two years that Lilly has not ever done. what, a few more innings? so what? it doesn't detract from my primary point. fine, Marquis hasn't proven to be anything beyond Lilly with a few more innings. at ages 23 and 24, haren put up seasons better than anything lilly has ever done despite being in the league since 1999. context is so difficult