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Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore are the biggest threats to take him before then I think. I wouldn't consider Dallas a serious threat for taking Quinn, I think if anything they're bluffing and trying to get someone to trade up with them. Jerry Jones likes him some big names though, so I'm leaving that as a possibility. He does, but so far he has been really committed to Tony Romo being the QB of the future. From his comments leading up to the draft, I get the feeling we're looking at a CB. I agree that we were probably going CB or WR going into the draft, but they also didn't forsee Quinn falling. Jerry likes Romo, but Quinn would be a nice insurance policy. At 22, he wouldn't be too expensive of a gamble. I'm getting word of a rumor that if Quinn is there at 22, either Dallas will take him or is trying to trade him to Cleveland for their second round pick this year and either a 1st or 2nd round pick next year. I love this plan, if it works.

And how much of that was due to the talent at LSU? I'm guessing a lot. I'm not saying Russell would have been trash otherwise but he wouldn't be anywhere near the prospect he is if he switched spots with Quinn. The talent at LSU was miles ahead of the talent at Notre Dame the last couple years. Umm, we're comparing JMR to John Navarre of an equally talented Michigan teams. Not talking about ND here. I just used Notre Dame because of Quinn. I could have used any team with substantially less talent than LSU had and the point would still stand. How much of Russell's numbers were based on how much talent he had around him? We're getting to a different subject here - I agree with you that JMR was aided by a good team (but scouts don't look at just how he does against a porous ND defense while LSU has many other NFL caliber offensive players). As I've already said, I'm not the biggest JMR fan. Just stating he didn't come out of nowhere. That doesn't change the fact that JMR was a probable first rounder during the regular college football season and a potential top-10 pick right before the Sugar Bowl. You think he was a top-10 pick before the Sugar Bowl and I don't. Can we agree to disagree and end this debate. I don't think he was a top-10 pick before the Sugar Bowl, either, but compare a top 10 board before the Sugar Bowl to the players that went top 10 today and there will be a ton of variance. He was a prospect to be in the top 10, though. He's a guy with such incredible tools that all he needed was matching production to shoot himself up the charts. He did that and had a great workout and there you go. There are a lot of top ten prospects each year, especially in November/December, etc..

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't. How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute. Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere. I knew about Russell as a solid prospect. He was not a "big time prospect" which I would define as a top 10 or 15 pick i.e. a sure first rounder. He didn't get close to that level until the Sugar Bowl. And if pre-work out draft boards are meaningless then what does that say about what people thought about his pro prospects coming out of high school - which you brought into the discussion to defend Russell? Wouldn't those be even more meaningless? You're really reaching here. Pre workout draft boards are meaningless because they fluctuate so much from that time until draft day. Keeping up with who has pro potential coming out of high school is an important part of team's scouting. There's no connection. How am I reaching? If draft boards measuring a player's pro potential before their workout is meaningless, so should every other draft board before the pre draft workout. Sorry, I think I used the wrong terminology and threw you off. I meant pre-work out mock drafts. Things like NFL draft countdown, Kiper's big board, stuff like that. I mean that trying to slot who is going where and who is better than who in November means nothing, because those players haven't ever had individual work outs in front of NFL eyes, things change so quick. When you're looking at a freshman QB and saying "he could be a special one in 3 years" isn't the same as saying "this guy will go No. 1 to Oakland" in August. You're comparing apples to oranges.

The problem is, if you're just casually looking at draft boards during the year, you wouldn't see Russell's name on it, because he was a junior. If you actually followed draft prospects, outside of a monthly glance at Mel Kiper's big board, you knew Russell was a guy with a shot to shoot up the charts if he declared.

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't. How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute. Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere. I knew about Russell as a solid prospect. He was not a "big time prospect" which I would define as a top 10 or 15 pick i.e. a sure first rounder. He didn't get close to that level until the Sugar Bowl. And if pre-work out draft boards are meaningless then what does that say about what people thought about his pro prospects coming out of high school - which you brought into the discussion to defend Russell? Wouldn't those be even more meaningless? You're really reaching here. Pre workout draft boards are meaningless because they fluctuate so much from that time until draft day. Keeping up with who has pro potential coming out of high school is an important part of team's scouting. There's no connection.

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't. How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute. Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere. Exactly. Soul, I can't believe you compared Navarre to JMR. I made the comparison because IMB based his big-time status on those physical attributes. So what? Make a better argument next time for why Russell's a big-time prospect. I didn't base it on that, though that's all I mentioned. Obviously there was more than that on his scouting report. Hell, I bet NFL scouting directors knew more about him than before he even started practice his freshman year.

There is a HUGE difference between Russell and Navarre, to even use him as any sort of comparison to Russell is ridiculous. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper here. You're right that Russell wasn't a No. 1 guy before the Sugar Bowl. But he was leagues ahead of "literally nowhere". Russell was a beneficary of the hype machine I'll be surprised if he lives up to expectations. I don't think there's any doubt that he benefited from the hype machine, what No. 1 pick hasn't? I don't think he's worthy of the first pick in the draft either, I'm just saying that he's been on people's radars forever.

Seriously, it's brutal. Everyone is stumbling over words and staring at each other.

There is a HUGE difference between Russell and Navarre, to even use him as any sort of comparison to Russell is ridiculous. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper here. You're right that Russell wasn't a No. 1 guy before the Sugar Bowl. But he was leagues ahead of "literally nowhere". Well, you're the one who said Russell was "big time" because he's strong and has a huge arm, not me. But whatever. You really think that "strong with a huge arm" was the entire scouting report that people had on him going into his first draft eligible year? Come on.

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't. How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute. Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere.

There is a HUGE difference between Russell and Navarre, to even use him as any sort of comparison to Russell is ridiculous. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper here. You're right that Russell wasn't a No. 1 guy before the Sugar Bowl. But he was leagues ahead of "literally nowhere".

Is this the first draft you've ever watched? That's the way these things work, that's the way they're supposed to work. The point remains, you said he was "literally nowhere" before his last couple games, and that's completely false. Anyone who follows college football knew who he was and could see his talent when he stepped on the field his freshman year. That kind of arm doesn't go unnoticed. I like how you've changed your point from "completely nowhere" to "not a top-10 pick" by the way. I like how you keep harping on it, even though I explained what I meant. Plenty of QBs have a 10-ton arm, doesn't mean they're the #1 pick. There will be great players drafted on the 2nd day, that's not even the subject of the discussion. Nothing that you just said has anything to do with our discussion at all. He's been a big time prospect for a long time, of course he wasn't the No. 1 pick before the Sugar Bowl, no one was, these things take time to get decided. You're proving complete ignorance here. Define "Big Time Prospect" then. Are you serious? He was a big, strong quarterback with a huge arm that played at a big-time SEC school since his freshman year. He was no one's No. 1 pick at the beginning of the year, but guess who was? Brady Quinn. Draft boards in August mean nothing. Quinn was the top pick in the draft up until the Sugar Bowl. Nobody though he would get past the Raiders at #1 or #2 (since at the time the Raiders and Lions were tied for the worst record). Have you been following the discussion at all? He said that Russell was "literally nowhere" before the sugar bowl. Saying that Quinn was No. 1 then means nothing. You guys need to face facts, people who follow college football and draft prospects have known about Russell for a long time now.

Is this the first draft you've ever watched? That's the way these things work, that's the way they're supposed to work. The point remains, you said he was "literally nowhere" before his last couple games, and that's completely false. Anyone who follows college football knew who he was and could see his talent when he stepped on the field his freshman year. That kind of arm doesn't go unnoticed. I like how you've changed your point from "completely nowhere" to "not a top-10 pick" by the way. I like how you keep harping on it, even though I explained what I meant. Plenty of QBs have a 10-ton arm, doesn't mean they're the #1 pick. There will be great players drafted on the 2nd day, that's not even the subject of the discussion. Nothing that you just said has anything to do with our discussion at all. He's been a big time prospect for a long time, of course he wasn't the No. 1 pick before the Sugar Bowl, no one was, these things take time to get decided. You're proving complete ignorance here. Define "Big Time Prospect" then. Are you serious? He was a big, strong quarterback with a huge arm that played at a big-time SEC school since his freshman year. He was no one's No. 1 pick at the beginning of the year, but guess who was? Brady Quinn. Draft boards in August mean nothing.

Is this the first draft you've ever watched? That's the way these things work, that's the way they're supposed to work. The point remains, you said he was "literally nowhere" before his last couple games, and that's completely false. Anyone who follows college football knew who he was and could see his talent when he stepped on the field his freshman year. That kind of arm doesn't go unnoticed. I like how you've changed your point from "completely nowhere" to "not a top-10 pick" by the way. I like how you keep harping on it, even though I explained what I meant. Plenty of QBs have a 10-ton arm, doesn't mean they're the #1 pick. There will be great players drafted on the 2nd day, that's not even the subject of the discussion. Nothing that you just said has anything to do with our discussion at all. He's been a big time prospect for a long time, of course he wasn't the No. 1 pick before the Sugar Bowl, no one was, these things take time to get decided. You're proving complete ignorance here. EDIT I will say this though, he wasn't in anyone's top-10 until late. But draft boards change so much from bowl season to draft day that that is no shock.

Is this the first draft you've ever watched? That's the way these things work, that's the way they're supposed to work. The point remains, you said he was "literally nowhere" before his last couple games, and that's completely false. Anyone who follows college football knew who he was and could see his talent when he stepped on the field his freshman year. That kind of arm doesn't go unnoticed. I like how you've changed your point from "completely nowhere" to "not a top-10 pick" by the way.

I don't get the Losman thing either. Unless Buffalo is just using him as a placeholder until it can get its hands on a QB it likes. They might just not like Quinn, afterall.

You must not pay much attention to college football, Russell has been on people's radars since his freshman year. Not anywhere near where he went. Not even close to that level. Read what you wrote again, please. You said he was "literally nowhere" until his last couple games, which is completely untrue. I don't even know where you pulled that from, unless you just like playing expert. What you said was completely false. He was nowhere in terms of top 10. If you think he would have gone top 10 without the Sugar Bowl and his workout, you are sorely mistaken. So what? No one goes anywhere without a workout. The point is Russell was a bigtime prospect as long ago as his freshman year, not some nobody that popped up the last couple weeks of the season. You keep changing your point, stick to one please.

How does that even make sense? Some NFL teams higher freaking private investigators to tail potential draftees, no one is going to skip a player because of his first name for god's sakes, this is big business, not a video game.

You must not pay much attention to college football, Russell has been on people's radars since his freshman year. Not anywhere near where he went. Not even close to that level. Read what you wrote again, please. You said he was "literally nowhere" until his last couple games, which is completely untrue. I don't even know where you pulled that from, unless you just like playing expert. What you said was completely false.

He definitely ranks up there behind Leinart dropping to #10 last year. You guys do realize that Marques Colston was drafted last year, right? So what? We're talking about draft value. Colston never had the potential to make $40 million guaranteed like Quinn would have. Whoever picks Quinn now will literally be saving millions on top of millions of dollars. Only if he's as good as you think he is, which apparently NFL teams don't. QB's get paid more at their slots, don't they? A team that picks him at 12 or 13 or whatever is going to pay more money for him than they would for another player at the same spot.

You must not pay much attention to college football, Russell has been on people's radars since his freshman year.

He definitely ranks up there behind Leinart dropping to #10 last year. You guys do realize that Marques Colston was drafted last year, right?

Do you ever say anything that isn't completely stupid? Anyway, I'm glad Brady slipped. Gives me more time to look at that blonde next to him. :shock: :shock: :shock: Do you? That was all you could come up with? Quick, before someone tells us to drop it, edit that post and try again, you're embarrassing yourself. 75% chance Detroit picked CJ for Tampa Bay.

Do you ever say anything that isn't completely stupid? Anyway, I'm glad Brady slipped. Gives me more time to look at that blonde next to him. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Obvious? No. But I can certainly make a case for why he would be below average over the next 3 seasons. My dilemma comes in that I can also make a case that he could be pretty good for a couple of those seasons. If both cases can be made, it can't be an obvious conclusion. His bad year was most recent. But he didn't have bad years (plural) recently. Last season was absolutely terrible. But '05 was above average and '04 was well above average. He is certainly up and down, thats for sure. But the question remains, what stats and logic support the notion that his career worst season of '06 is more the norm and than the exception? I say obvious, as in "it's more likely". Marquis is a guy who, outside of 129 innings in 2001, has been slightly above average once, average once, and decidedly below average three times. I don't know why you say bad "year" like he's had only one, he was awful in 2002 and 2003, too. Out of his last five seasons, three of them have been below average, with his last season being the worst. I think the expectation that his 2006 will be closer to the norm than his slightly above average years is the fact that he's really nothing special, even at his best. He's an average player at best, and he was historically awful last year. To look at Marquis numbers and say "I bet he has a good year" would be ridiculous. To say "I think he can have a good year" is less so, and there's the distinction. Think of it in this context. If ARod were to hit .250/.320/.470 next year, people would say "well, it's still ARod, and he's only 32, he'll be better next season". And of course he would be, he's been an amazing player for over a decade. If Marquis has a season where he has a 6.02 ERA with a 73 ERA+, strikes out just 96 and walks 75, people are going to say "well, it's Jason Marquis, he probably lost it." Then when he signs a 3-year, $21 million dollar deal with the most tortured fan base in sports, what kind of reaction do you expect?