imb

i would kill any one member of my family for access to stattracker right now.

Every team penn state or philly plays against gets all the calls. Life must be rough, what with all these league administrators and referees plotting against you.

Are you talking about a dynasty league, where you keep your entire roster, or a keeper league where you keep a set number of players (or points, whatever)?

He'll prob. go 1st 15 overall. What do you know about Ginther (SS out of Jenks, OK) UK? I saw him play baseball a few times last year, but he never really stood out to me. He's a pretty good QB, too, but I never got the big-time D1 vibe from him.

At the last minute, I switched in Hasselbeck for Manning in my fantasy league. This probably cost me a playoff win. Whoever started Brees over Brady on here is looking pretty good. The good news is that my opponent started Jeff Garcia, and despite all of the points the Bucs put up, Hasselbeck still got me more points than Garcia did for him. Combine that with TDs from Jennings, Grant, Jackson and Holt (and a ton of rushing yards from Jackson), plus 3 long FGs by Crosby, I might be looking good.

arrrrrrr Plus one from Jennings and two long FGs by Crosby of course, I started Hasselbeck over Manning, which is going to come back to bite me, hard.

At the last minute, I switched in Hasselbeck for Manning in my fantasy league. This probably cost me a playoff win.

His WHIP would have been 41st. Bear in mind that when I say 41st (for WHIP) and 32nd (for ERA), I don't mean that's where he ranked among pitchers who allowed 4+ runs. That's where those numbers would have ranked among the season leaders had those been his season stats. For instance, here are the league average ERAs from 2002-2006 2002 - 4.03 2003 - 4.33 2004 - 4.40 2005 - 4.40 2006 - 4.63 So, in games where he allowed less than four runs, he was quite good (duh). In the innings after he allowed his fourth run, he was...average. Do you think that's because he's mentally weak, or because he just didn't have his best stuff? When you look at a pitcher that allows at least four runs, and his ERA after the fourth run is just over 4.00, that seems to indicate that he just didn't have his best stuff that day, not that he completely fell apart.

June 1, 2002 Top of the 4th Recorded two outs 3 hits, 2 runs 1 K 0.6IP 3H 2R 1K 0BB June 29, 2002 Bottom of the 5th – allows 2R HR to Frank Thomas, 4-3 White Sox Records three outs 0 hits, 0 runs 1K 1.6 3H 2R 2K 0BB July 30, 2002 Top of the 6th – allows 2R HR to Bubba Trammel, 5-4 Cubs Records one out 2 H, 1 R 0K, 0BB 2IP 5H 3R 2K 0BB August 21, 2002 Bottom of the 4th – Daryle Ward doubles to leftfield, driving in Biggio Records three outs 3H, 0R 1K, 0BB 3IP 8H 3R 3K 0BB April 14, 2003 Top of the 5th – Felipe Lopez singles in two unearned runs, 4-1 Reds Records four outs 2H, 1R 2K, 1BB 4.1IP 10H 4R 5K 1BB May 12, 2003 Bottom of the 4th – allows 2R HR to Brooks Kieshnick, 9-4 Cubs Records 7 outs 1H, 0R 4K, 3BB 6.2IP 11H 4R 9K 4BB May 23, 2003 Bottom of the 1st – allows 3R HR to Jose Vizcaino, 6-2 Astros Records 19 outs 4H, 1R 6K, 2BB 13IP 15H 5R 15K 6BB May 28, 2003 Bottom of the 8th – allows RBI double to Aramis Ramirez, 5-4 Cubs (Note: Prior is pulled immediately after the double.) 13IP 15H 5R 15K 6BB July 6, 2003 Top of the 5th – allows RBI single to Jim Edmonds Records 7 outs 1H, 0R 2K, 0BB 15.1IP 16H 5R 17K 6BB July 11, 2003 Bottom of the 4th – allows 2RBI single to Vinny Castilla, 4-1 Braves Records 4 outs 2H, 2R 0K, 1BB 16.2IP 18H 7R 17K 7BB June 9, 2004 Top of the 4th – allows grand slam to Edgar Renteria, 5-0 Cardinals (Note: Prior is pulled immediately after the home run.) 16.2IP 18H 7R 17K 7BB July 6, 2004 Bottom of the 1st – allows 2R HR to K. Ginter, 4-0 Brewers Records 10 outs 0H, 0R 8K, 3BB 20IP 18H 7R 25K 10BB July 30, 2004 Top of the 5th – allows 3R HR to Bobby Abreu, 6-3 Phillies Records 1 out 1H, 0R 1K, 0BB 20.1IP 19H 7R 26K 10BB August 10, 2004 Top of the 3rd – allows 2RBI single to Adam Eaton, 4-2 Padres Records 1 out 2H, 3R (allowed by Glendon Rusch, charged to Prior.) 1K, 0BB 1HBP 20.2IP 21H 10R 27K 10BB 1HBP August 31, 2004 Bottom of the 1st – allows RBI single to Brian Schneider, 4-0 Expos Records 13 outs 2H, 1R 6K, 3BB 25IP 23H 11R 33K 13BB 1HBP September 15, 2004 Top of the 2nd – allows sacrifice fly to Jack Wilson Records 10 outs 5H, 1R 4K, 0BB 28.1IP 28H 12R 37K 13BB 1HBP May 1, 2005 Bottom of the 5th – allows grand slam to Mike Lamb, 5-3 Astros Records 1 out 1H, 3R 1K, 2BB 28.2IP 29H 15R 38K 15BB 1HBP July 7, 2005 Bottom of the 5th – allows 3R HR to Julio Franco, 6-0 Atlanta Records 0 outs 1H, 0R 0K, 1BB 28.2IP 30H 15R 38K 16BB 1HBP August 4, 2005 Bottom of the 1st – allows grand slam to Bobby Abreu Records 13 outs 3H, 2R 7K, 2BB 33IP 33H 17R 45K 18BB 1HBP June 18, 2006 Top of the 1st – allows 3R HR to Carlos Guillen, 4-0 Tigers Records 10 outs 4H 3R 2K, 1BB, 1HBP 36.1IP 37H 20R 47K 19BB 2HBP June 29, 2006 Top of the 6th – allows 2RBI single to Gabe Gross (Note: Prior is pulled immediately after the single.) 36.1IP 37H 20R 47K 19BB 2HBP July 21, 2006 Bottom of the 2nd – allows 3 RBI double to Marlon Anderson Records 5 outs 1H, 0R 0K, 2BB 38IP 38H 20R 47K 21BB 2HBP July 31, 2006 Top of the 3rd – allows grand slam to Orlando Hudson, 6-1 Diamondbacks Records 7 outs 1H, 0R 1K, 2BB, 1HBP 40.1IP 39H 20R 48K 23BB 3HBP August 10, 2006 Bottom of the 1st – allows sacrifice fly to D. Bell (Kevin Mench scores – unearned run), 4-1 Brewers Records 7 outs 2H, 2R 1K, 2BB 42.2IP 41H 22R 49K 25BB 3HBP 4.69 ERA 1.61 WHIP

With the help of our friend http://www.baseball-reference.com, I went through every game that Mark Prior allowed four or more runs in during his career. Twenty four times in his career with Chicago, Mark Prior allowed at least four runs. After allowing the fourth run, here are his numbers. 42.2IP 41H 22R 49K 25BB 3HBP 4.69 ERA 1.61 WHIP Looking at those stats, everything looks completely normal except for the walks. That shouldn't be a surprise though, because if a good pitcher allows four or more runs, something is off. In Prior's case, it looks like more often than not it was lack of control. So apparently, during his career, after allowing his fourth run, his ERA was just over 4.00. Makes sense, right? Notes: His career ERA is 3.51. His career k/9 is 10.37. After allowing his fourth run, he averaged 10.35. There were 24 games in which he allowed 4+ runs. On 11 occasions, that fourth run scored on a home run. At the end of 2003, his ERA after allowing 4+ runs was 3.88. After 2004, it was 3.84. Before the injuries kicked in, he seems to have rebounded quite well after allowing his fourth run. Someone who is smarter than I am (I'll get out my Meph pager) can go through these numbers and pull more meaning out of them. Obviously we don't know how other pitchers fared in games that they allowed 4+ runs in, so I'm not sure what this all means. The 4.69 ERA would have placed him 32nd in the NL last year. I'm not sure what ERA tells you though 42.2 innings, but if there are 16 teams in the National League, and each has five starters, that equals 80 pitchers. So after 4+ runs, he falls somewhere in the middle of the pack. The 3.84 ERA he had after 2004 would have been 15th in the NL (right behind Ted Lilly). Until the injuries set in, it looks like he was really good after allowing his fourth run. In 2005 and 2006 he wasn't nearly as good. In 2005, however, there were only three instances of 4+ runs and the numbers are skewed by a game against the Astros that he allowed three runs in 1/3 of an inning. He only pitched 4 2/3 innings in 2005, and three of the five runs he surrendered came in 1/3 of an inning.

Luckily I'm getting the Rams/Packers game here in sunny Oklahoma. It's the second quarter and I've gotten TDs from Grant, Holt and Jackson. Good times, good times.

It's actually going to just say Steve.

no, I am simply pointing out that if you base all your opinoins on stats, and keep saying that those types of opinoins are the only ones that can be made, you cannot have an opinoin (or at least one that has any meat to it) on an issue that has no stats to validate or deny it. it really has nothing to do with Mark Prior. I am just pointing out what i find to be troubling with the whole stats analytical or else arguement. I really dont think its that crazy to understand. but mayne OMC was right Facts, not stats. An opinion that isn't based to any extent on facts and rational logic is worthless. facts was not the word used. it was stats. Cuse was the one who asked everyone else to find stats (stats that are probably impossible to get) for him to back up his claim. On top of it, unless I've missed something, he has yet to provide one piece of support for his argument, other than that it's his opinion. Maybe I could actually be swayed to buy into it (doubt it, but maybe) if there was any sort of support. The part that got me was that even if someone got those stats for him, what's the point? We don't know his normal LD% allowed, we don't know the league's and we don't know anyone's after they've allowed four runs (which is stupidly arbitrary, anyway). Stats are useless unless you have something to compare them to. Not to mention, he wouldn't even know what the stats meant had someone gotten them for him. Just bizarre.

The best part is that they're so confused by their own argument that they don't even know what they're arguing anymore. It's fascinating to watch.

I honestly thought this was settled like 4 pages back. How can this still be debated? You cannot quantify this. You might as well spend your time hunting leprechauns. You can't make a physchological hypothesis based on solely observable behavior and then demand statistical data to refute what basically comes down to an uneducated, underinformed opinion. That's what's so laughable about the whole thing. They know there's no way to put that into a statistic. It's that they think it somehow validates their argument is what is so insane.

I really hope this is ironic posting, or something.

Just so I can get this straight in my head, you guys are asking for stats that you know cannot possibly exist in a way to validate your theory that you can read Mark Prior's mental makeup from seeing him pitch on tv 30 times?

I always thought he was a bit of a streisand, but he's rocking the ish in this one.

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so. How is anyone antagonizing him? He's making what might be the most ridiculous statements ever posted on this board (and that's saying something, Mr. It was just a pocketknife).

you said: and so i can only ask what stats prove that his evaluation on the psyche of a player that he has never met means nothing.... edit : grammar Like, baseball stats?

..........

your right IMB, it is lame. I should mold my personallity after the greatest poster of all time, you, because you never have had a post that was anything but respectful and enlightened, and you never get old to other posters. IMB for sainthood! But to get back to my question, and it is a serious question, isnt Soccer's post an arguement against the idea of a choke artist? imb's not the greatest poster of all time. meph is. I believe that Vance won the tourney here, fella. Yeah, but I got named in the Mitchell report for using posting enhancing drugs... 8-[ I thought that was Yeti... Why does everyone want me to name my supplier!!! The problem is, we don't know who was and who wasn't on PED's (posting enhancing drugs). Therefore we must assume an equal posting ground.

your right IMB, it is lame. I should mold my personallity after the greatest poster of all time, you, because you never have had a post that was anything but respectful and enlightened, and you never get old to other posters. IMB for sainthood! But to get back to my question, and it is a serious question, isnt Soccer's post an arguement against the idea of a choke artist? imb's not the greatest poster of all time. meph is. I believe that Vance won the tourney here, fella.

What if Mitchell was on the list? What a conundrum would that be?

"Daddy, why are you a cheater?" "I'm not, that report is full of lies!" "Ok. Well...On a related note, why did you throw a shattered bat at Mike Piazza that time?" "Go to your room" That's how I envision that going. That'd work a little better if the original poster wasn't most likely talking about Koby, his 20 year old son playing in the Astros minor league system. But other than that, =D>