goonys evil twin

Did the Cubs organization really treat Corey that poorly? I don't think they did... Yeah, the only thing Corey can really claim mistreatment from is the fans. I don't know if it qualifies as mistreatment, but he was grossly misused, and then scapegoated. He and Walker have been the Sammy and Farnsworth of 2005/2006. And in many ways, this all goes back to when Dusty inexplicably pulled him aside on the field for what looked like lesson time, after he won a game with a walkoff homer. Prior to that, he was still doing some things right.

All Cubs, right?

Not necessarily.

I think they should trade down and try to get as many 2nd and 3rd round picks as possible, so they can stock up on lineman and build the team. They aren't a player away from success.

Actually, the "speaking his mind" part played a lesser part with the Cubs than it did with other teams as far as Walker is concerned. The Cubs, from the front office on down to some members of the pitching staff, do not like Walker's defense. And the Cubs do seem to be on a "defense" kick these days. None of us is privy to everything that goes on behind closed doors, so who knows what has gone on. Myself? I'd keep Walker and start him. But that's just me. Me too Bruce, me too. Is there any chance, that unlike with Patterson, they would choose to keep Walker for the bench though? He'd be cheaper than what Patterson was, and does not come with the baggage of being the guy everybody hated. He's instantly become their best bench player.

I still would not assume Walker will be a Cub in 2006. I think he's gone before spring training. There's probably little interest in Walker himself for whatever reason. I've had nothing but good dealings with Walker, but maybe there's something to the concern about how many teams he's played for in X amount of years. I've been assuming Walker is gone, no matter what, before April. And I'm sure a lot of other teams are assuming that as well since the Cubs have been so obvious about their desire to get rid of Walker. Todd is a good role player, but he's no difference maker. So there is no justification for a team to aggressively bid for him when they know Hendry is going to deal him, like they knew he would trade Sammy, Farns, Corey etc. A team's greatest bargaining chip is the ability to walk away from the table and just keep their own guys. The Cubs have made it quite clear that they won't be keeping Walker, not after Hendry said they were happy with their 3 middle infielders, Cedeno, Perez and Hairston, anad barely mentioned Walker as an afterthought.

But would still be the smartest thing they could do. Actually trading for Prior would :wink: I don't know about that. Trading for Prior would be great if they could keep him for a very long time. But I could easily see Prior walking away from there, as their owner has not shown a willingness to go top dollar on prime guys, or pitchers for that matter. And, in 2006, the O's plus Prior and minus Tejada still aren't any good. That's probably still true in 2007. So they would most likely have to build a solid team around Prior by 2008 to get any value out of the deal (and have less money to pay for it since Prior would be making a heck of a lot more than all the prospects they would get). The smartest thing would be to somehow get Prior and a few prospects for Tejada, but I don't like to think of that possibility.

Hendry had to match contract offers for Jones (3 years) to get him. If Pie is ready next year, Jones will be traded. There should be a few teams that want him at $10 million over 2 years since he had better offers than that this year. But would a team really risk losing Jones after 1 year since he could demand a trade or free agency if traded? But seriously, I think Jones is exactly the type of player Hendry wants, and he gave him that 3 year deal because he wants him here for 3 years.

But would still be the smartest thing they could do.

I for two.

I would consider this Val guy as a B prospect, turning 25 this coming season, coming off a season in which he did not play at all because of rehab, with apparantly pretty limited ceiling. Going off his listed birthday, he's never been young for any level he's played at, so while his numbers have been good, they aren't that impressive.

Thebaseballcube, the Orioles, and ESPN list Val's bday as March 1981, and Pie's as Feb 1985, but they say Val was 20 in 2004. I'd need some clarification. On a strictly numbers basis he does compare favorably to Pie, but what were his true ages in those seasons? And, Pie has nearly 1500 pro at bats, while Val has less than 1000, and apparently didn't play at all in 2005 while recovering from a torn labrum. I'm not sure he's a fair comparison to Pie when all is said and done. And no, I wouldn't trade Pie for Patterson.

I've never heard you say anything like this about Prior before, or at least I don't remember it. Sorry, I'm just writing about what I'm seeing here, and I have to include your "he's a quitter" commentary into the piling on Prior phenomenon that has been going on here ever since his name was rumored. It seems to me that Andy and Co. have just perfected the "run him out of town" strategy by getting fans to start believing the bogus reports on these guys.

Kess, you beat me to it. Majewski for Patterson would make sense. I don't know anything about him except for his numbers in the minors, where he's totaled a line of .300/.358/.504, with small but efficient base stealing numbers, and respectable k/bb numbers (much better than Pie's, for instance). I would consider him greater than nothing for Patterson. I might feel the urge to call him iceman, considering his first name and the end of his last name. Val Kilmer - Tom Kazanski - Iceman Patterson would have to be Maverick. The golden boy prodigy who works on instincts as opposed to refined skill, who happened to crash and burn. Yeah, it's Friday.

But, if you honestly wanted to move Prior, wouldn't it make more sense to open up the bidding for his services to the other 29 teams in the league rather than just the Orioles, who don't seem to be giving Prior the respect he deserves? What would other teams pay for a guy who has #1 stuff? Would Phily give up Abreu, who basically is as good or better than Tejada at a position on the field that the Cubs have a much bigger hole? As bad as Jacque Jones is, that's arguable. The Cubs corner OF hole is still bigger than the SS hole. Well, gee, maybe it's not. My mistake. Maybe what is not? Jones is like the Neifi of RF, but SS is just one position, and the Cubs have a young prospect capable of putting up better numbers at the position. Corner OF is two spots, and while the Cubs have a young prospect capable of putting up better numbers at the position than Jones, both will have to play anyway.

But, if you honestly wanted to move Prior, wouldn't it make more sense to open up the bidding for his services to the other 29 teams in the league rather than just the Orioles, who don't seem to be giving Prior the respect he deserves? What would other teams pay for a guy who has #1 stuff? Would Phily give up Abreu, who basically is as good or better than Tejada at a position on the field that the Cubs have a much bigger hole? As bad as Jacque Jones is, that's arguable. The Cubs corner OF hole is still bigger than the SS hole.

Wow, that's just...I don't even know how to respond to that. You're saying you aren't high on Prior because of your perception of his body language on games when he is being hit (which, if you look at his results, is pretty rare anyway). The problem is you can't, and don't know that about Bedard. He's older than Prior, and not nearly as accomplished. I just can't see how people can have bad things to say about Prior, and then think Bedard can be anywhere close to an adequate replacement. Anything bad you can say about Prior is doubled or tripled when talking about the other guy. He hasn't thrown a healthy 200+ innings? He's been bothered by injuries? He's been ineffective from time to time? He has yet to live up to the hype? Any of that stuff people try and lay on Prior can be said about the other guy, who, again, is older, and therefore has less room for error. This is all just so baffling to me, how the Cubs inclusion of Prior in these talks has actually caused people to start talking bad about the guy, when nobody was complaining after he battled back from a freak broken elbow that many thought was season, if not career, threatening. It literally baffles me how much so many people have turned on Prior. So now the list is Sammy, Wood, Patterson, and Prior. Who will be the next whipping boy who fails to live up to fan's expectations and therefore is discredited and run out the door? It's got to be Zambrano if/when he has a down season, although it could easily be Ramirez if he gets injured again, or maybe Lee if he reverts to career form. I can't believe how little people think of the Cubs players who actually do some good for the team, as opposed to all those replacable role players who continue to be overpaid and overplayed by the Cubs.

I would probably give up 3-4 of the guys on most top 10 lists, while maybe throwing in a current bullpen arm and/or another lower ranked prospect. Would you give up Ohman along with Pie, Guzman and Hill? What kind of worries me is that the O's (Stockwell) know who is good and who isn't. He shouldn't know anymore or less than what the Cubs know. I'm hoping he'll have some input on the deal and possibly even overvalue some of his guys that he takes pride in drafting. Throw in Dope, Harvey. I'd have to strongly consider Ohman, Pie, Guzman and Hill, and probably would trade them.

I would probably give up 3-4 of the guys on most top 10 lists, while maybe throwing in a current bullpen arm and/or another lower ranked prospect.

If you were the Orioles, would you trade Tejada for Pie and Hill? Two unproven kids for an all-star shortstop and former MVP? If I was Baltimore I would seriously consider those two, plus another arm/bat or two, instead of some of the mediocre veteran names that have been thrown about. They are going to suck this year. They might as well get as much as they can for the future.

I'd like to hold onto Pie, but he can't be the sticking point in a potential deal. Prior is more than worth backing away from the table for, Pie, not so much. What if they insisted on Murton and let the Cubs keep Pie? Would you then start Felix in LF this year? If Hendry was willing to call him up last summer, would he give him a shot at a less important position this year? (less important because with Tejada, the lineup can live with subpar production from LF) I'd rather give him more time in the minors, but his age and experience wouldn't be unprecedented for a call-up, and there really aren't many options to start instead of him, if Murton were gone.

Is that Barrett's fault or the pitchers? Molina on defense is largely going on defensive reputation of a couple of years ago rather than his upcoming production, he's not as good as he was in his late 20s. Molina peaked offensively last year and will likely not produce the same numbers as he did last year. To give him a multi-year deal partially based on his offensive production last year and his defensive reputation of the past is a finanical mistake. You don't know that. Very presumptuous on your part. Now, if you had said that catchers over 30 typically decline, then yes, that's factual. But your statement had nothing factual about it. It's all your assumption. He said "will likely not". It was a fact that he peaked offensively, that's the best he's done. And it's also true that he will likely not produce the same numbers.

Why? Obviously I wouldn't state my opinion if I didn't think I was right. If I thought my opinion was wrong, I'd probably change it. Personally I think that saying a player shouldn't exercise an option in his contract that he rightfully negotiated and earned is taking an extreme position. And a completely unfair and unrealistic position. I'd love it if the Cubs could get away with only paying him $2.5m, leaving more money for more talent. There's nothing wrong with waiting to see if he'll prove to be more healthy. There is something wrong with expecting a guy not to exercise an option in his contract that he earned. And my feeling is that is completely unrealistic, and to a certain extent ridiculous. If you had the option to void a deal and renegotiate your current salary in order to get more money, and that option to void was agreed upon when you signed in the first place, would you not take it just because you took more sick days than you expected? Would you really take less money even though you could easily get more, and were earning a whole heck of a lot more than guys who have done a heck of a lot less than you, just because you felt you didn't perform at your absolute best the entire time you worked there? He's not holding out for more money. He didn't sign a contract, and then out of nowhere demand more money. He, and the Cubs, signed a contract after the draft that gave him the option to void his deal once he became arbitration eligible. This was done because it was very realistic that he'd be far outperforming his salary by the time 2004 or 2005 came along. The Cubs knew this, that is why they agreed to it. It was part of the deal. It was well within his rights. And when all is said and done, he's still going to be making a lot less than a lot of players who couldn't hold his jock.

No, I'm arguing from the team's point of view. You give yourself the opportunity to avoid his first year of free agency by guaranteeing him more up front. It's give and take. I'd love to offer just 3/15. But he's not going to sign that. He might not even take a 3/27-30, because in that time period he could earn more than 27-30 by going one year at a time. And he might not want to give the team that one year option because in 3 years he might expect to sign a 5 year deal that averages $15m per year.

Meh. Hendry's right that trading Walker for Wilson straight up isn't a good deal for the Cubs. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. But he'll definitely be wrong if he ends up just giving away Walker for scraps as opposed to taking on the opportunity to see if Wilson can put up the 850-900 OPS he appears to be capable of if he is at his best and used properly.