Sammy Sofa

it was more just the way he was being so Bum about it. Woah Bum, there are kids out there of other religions? Get outta here. Yeah, they get down on their nees to play with their dradels and everything.

Link that horsefeathers, son.

Oh man, it was one of my favorite Bum moments. I just found it, but I'm ashamed that I've been getting it wrong all these years...he called them "equality rallies!" http://www.northsidebaseball.com/archive/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53721&p=2138405&hilit=rallies#p2138252 It is, of course, in a thread about the Budweiser House. We (mostly me) have had had fun with it over the years: http://www.northsidebaseball.com/archive/search.php?keywords=%22tolerance+rallies%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search oh my god that whole conversation hahahahahahahahhaahahhahahahahahahah I completely forgot about the whole thing with him and Ernie Banks. Oh my god, da Bum was such a treasure.

Hahahahahahah!

right? we JUST horsefeathering did the pizza conversation for the millionth time. talk about what garbage humans jerry jones and roger goodell are or else. Counterpoint: the board traffic would soar if the discussions ALL became about pizza.

I like how there were people worried about the thread going off track.

Haha did I miss this? Oh man, it was one of my favorite Bum moments. I just found it, but I'm ashamed that I've been getting it wrong all these years...he called them "equality rallies!" http://www.northsidebaseball.com/archive/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53721&p=2138405&hilit=rallies#p2138252 It is, of course, in a thread about the Budweiser House. We (mostly me) have had had fun with it over the years: http://www.northsidebaseball.com/archive/search.php?keywords=%22tolerance+rallies%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Yeah, the point is to force people to at least talk about this, and it's succeeded. If it was tailored as something that most people agreed on, then what's the point in the first place? To make people feel good? That sounds like one of the Bum's "tolerance rallies."

The reason the protests exist in the first place is because of the disparity in how Americans approach racial issues, so there's zero chance of finding a way to get the point across AND appeal to a majority of Americans at the time time. Protests aren't supposed to appeal to the opposition; they're supposed to make them uncomfortable and force them, in any kind of small way, to confront what they've been unaware of or ignoring. That's why this... ...doesn't work. The people opposed don't want the protests to be tailored to make them feel more comfortable or welcome. They just want the protests to go away.

There's a couple Mod Pizzas near me, but I've never tried it. Looking at the menu and the Yelp pics, it looks like a cooked version of what I could get at the very much missed Homemade Pizza Co.; I'll definitely have to give them a try.

I swear Papa John's used to be decent for a national chain. I remember when I was living in northern VA in the early 2000's having it for the first time and really liking it. Granted, I was in a pizza wasteland (it's a little better these days), plus Pizza Hut sucked as always and Domino's was at its absolute worst before they tried to fix themselves several years later. Little Caesar's had seemingly vanished altogether, so outside of getting a frozen pizza, Papa John's had a brief period where I genuinely liked it. I thought the crust and toppings were HUGELY better than the other chains, and to the point that when I was back in the area as late as 2007 visiting family I remember thinking, "oh, nice, Papa John's!" when I found out they had ordered it one night. And then it arrived, and it was all rubbery and bland there was no looking back. I'm pretty sure it was always like that, and I was just young and full of booze and other things to the point that anything edible was OK.

That's a good-ass analogy.

What in the world. Okafor horsefeathering sucks. he's like 22. Yeah, he's got a long career of international basketball ahead of him.

What in the world. Okafor horsefeathering sucks.

I just don't see how any argument that entails making the protest more palatable to the people it's pissing off, targeted at, or are too chicken to join in makes any kind of sense. As soon as you do that, it's failed.

I'm not saying it should be focused AT them; I'm saying they're part of the problem that's being protested. They don't deserve any kind of special exemption from a protest over issues that they very much at the core of, and yet they already have it with the kneeling and still people lie to themselves about how this is "offensive." They cry that this is a disrespectful act, when the military has been actively LEFT OUT of a protest and actually PAID TRIBUTE TO when they should be included as part of the problem. You can't point to the abuse by police and ignore a gigantic part of what's feeding that. Hell, if anything it's even more vital in this setting since the NFL is such a willing platform for the government and the military. Nobody's saying hey abusive cops who used to be military, you're cool with us. It's saying by kneeling during the Anthem they're not protesting the military itself. Yeah, I get that. I'm saying it's a needless distinction. If you're making the choice to use the platform of the anthem to protest to begin with, trying to add caveats to placate the willfully ignorant is a pointless effort. The people crying foul trying to ignore the reasons this is being done would be crying even if Kaep was saluting and wearing a shirt that said "I LOVE VETERANS" so long as he was also sitting or kneeling. Though, to be fair, it does serve a purpose in that you can point to it whenever some mouth-breathing starts slobbering about how it "disrespects the troops." It creates a talking point to counter with, so, hey, maybe not as pointless as I was thinking.

Damn, this is terrible.

I'm not saying it should be focused AT them; I'm saying they're part of the problem that's being protested. They don't deserve any kind of special exemption from a protest over issues that they very much at the core of, and yet they already have it with the kneeling and still people lie to themselves about how this is "offensive." They cry that this is a disrespectful act, when the military has been actively LEFT OUT of a protest and actually PAID TRIBUTE TO when they should be included as part of the problem. You can't point to the abuse by police and ignore a gigantic part of what's feeding that. Hell, if anything it's even more vital in this setting since the NFL is such a willing platform for the government and the military.

If they get Andy Samberg character-looking fool back I will jump for horsefeathering joy.

Again, the protest itself is already a concession to show respect to the troops; kneeling was started specifically to show the protests weren't directed at veterans and to show respect. This is in and of itself complete bull horsefeathers; the military and veterans are a GIGANTIC part of the very core of why Kaep started doing this in the first place. One of the biggest problems with the police is the increasing militarization of it, both in how they're equipped and armed, as well as who is becoming our police officers. Joining the police is a VERY common career path for those who were in the military, and since we've had two ongoing wars for almost 15 years now, you've had the police forces basically inundated with people who approach being a cop (and are often encouraged to do so) as if they're still fighting a war. This increased aggressive, violent approach has played no small part into people reacting to violent abuses of power by cops. The military and veterans, IMO, deserve NO exception from these protests, and should actually be one of the main targets. Oh, and you've had hate groups and far Right types talking for decades now how infiltrating the military, local government and police forces were key approaches to keeping their ideas and rhetoric alive and to give it power. So the idea that this protest should be further tailored to show the military respect and let them off the hook is, quite frankly, abhorrent, and actually completely flies in the face of why the protests were started in the first place. It's an inoffensive protest tailored to honor people culpable in what's being protested in the first place, yet apparently it's still too "offensive" and it should be changed so that white people feel more comfortable seeing it, or maybe, only if they feel like it and aren't too scared, actually taking part. The idea that this protest is over the line or that it's the protester's failing that the message has been "lost" on some is absurd.

Because they're wrong; the kneeling was done instead of sitting or staying off the field intentionally to SHOW respect to the troops because it was known this was going to be such a BS reason people flocked to to try and dismiss the protests. The protests had nothing to do with veterans or troops to begin with, yet they were changed specifically to actually show respect to people they had nothing to do with in the first place, so people wailing still that it's disrespectful to the troops are full of horsefeathers. STRONGLY disagree. They're afraid or don't give a horsefeathers because they're white men. There are no stakes for them in this outside of losing money, so they've chosen that over the right thing to do. Trying to cater to them to make them comfortable is backwards; this is a litmus test to see who is willing to actually step up.

The main disconnect here seems to be that you're willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the people opposing the protests that their main beef is legitimately "disrespecting the anthem/troops/veterans." Personally, I think that's mostly disingenuous dog-whistling, and that's one of the main reasons to do a protest like this in the first place. Expose those people because, again, they are a huge part of what's being protested.

The cops that kill innocent people are the bus company. Ohhhhhhhk I get it now. I disagree. What they're protesting are the conditions that allow for the cops to kill with impunity. You know, the same thing that BLM is about. And something that Kaep said long ago; this is about the system that fosters things like militarized killer cops. The people wailing and gnashing their teeth about these protests are fully part of that. Hell, this whole thing is just a modified version of how civil rights activists in the 50's and 60's and 70's were constantly attacked as being (or being the pawns of) "communists and communist agitators." Attempt to devalue and attack the validity of the protests and the protests by throwing into question their patriotism and loyalty and even their very identity as Americans. This playbook has been around forever, and trying to spin this as an attack on "the troops" or "veterans" is just a modernized version of that.

Exactly; this is a fluid thing. There's no one moment where you're going suddenly see a bunch of converts, or a timeframe to when it's "fixed." This is all about the long game; how this will be remembered and talked about. If it gets one person to change their mind, or someone's kid to remember how ridiculous their dad was flipping out over this and deciding to be different, or if it gets someone who becomes a cop to decide down the line they're not going to just look the other way when they see their power abused....it's all about the cracks.