Sammy Sofa

HAWT. This makes it sound like these guys shared the same needle, which would be the only thing I do not approve of in this quoted staement.

MY GOD. THIS IS THE DAY AMERICA'S INNOCENCE DIED.

Nope. They didn't look into amphetamines, which just makes the list more of a joke.

You are not allowed to suggest that Prior is/was a steriod user. Last night when this story of Prior being non-tendered broke I brought up the fact that Prior may be on the Mitchell Report. It really doesn't matter to me one way or the other, but I think the Cubs as an organization frown on bad PR. Which may or may not have contributed to the non-tendering decision. Then why re-sign Wood? Because Woody would work with Hendry on the price tag. I'm not saying the Mitchell Report was the #1 reason for nontendering Prior. I'm saying it could have been one of several reasons. I don't think it was a deciding factor, but maybe a contributing factor. Ding, Ding, Ding. So if he had taken a price cut and stayed, suddenly it doesn't matter?

Bottomhole :evil: :evil: Easy there.

You are not allowed to suggest that Prior is/was a steriod user. Last night when this story of Prior being non-tendered broke I brought up the fact that Prior may be on the Mitchell Report. It really doesn't matter to me one way or the other, but I think the Cubs as an organization frown on bad PR. Which may or may not have contributed to the non-tendering decision. Then why re-sign Wood?

Nope.

In short, it's a diversionary witch hunt to make the public ignore how the MLB is dragging its feet and doing jack squat to actually be proactive with this and attempt to clean up the game. It's much easier to point at stuff that already happened and nobody can do anything about and go "SHAAAAAAAAAAAAME" as opposed to actually trying to crack down in the here and now. I think we'll see that the cracking down on the here and now will be difficult. I've said before, the Olympics have very stringent testing and harsh penalties, yet PED use is rampant in that sport. Yeah, tha's kind of what I was going for. The league is "dragging its feet" because they know they can't actually clean everything up like people expect, hence reports like this that actually do nothing.

In short, it's a diversionary witch hunt to make the public ignore how the MLB is dragging its feet and doing jack squat to actually be proactive with this and attempt to clean up the game. It's much easier to point at stuff that already happened and nobody can do anything about and go "SHAAAAAAAAAAAAME" as opposed to actually trying to crack down in the here and now.

Well, now I completely understand why he's leaving.

Such as? (Besides the "employee" quote, which seems to be almost all that anyone brings up)

That situation is by far the exception to the rule, not the norm. By your standards, baseball is mostly populated by "non-men" who don't take less money because they've been hurt. How is he sabotaging them? You have ridiculous man-love for Prior. Are you his Physical Therapist, or something? I just think the vitriol and hyperbole directed at him is beyond ridiculous. But the euphoric man-love and expected return to the dominance of his career year are somehow less ridiculous? I mean, people are talking about killing animals over this decision. Yeah, that's warranted. I don't know why you expect me to say about those people. The vast majority of the "pro-Prior" posts during all of this have been in regards to the likelyhood of him being able to rebound and perform and the projected monetary costs and how this reflects on the market and the teams needs and resources and alternatives. If you feel that this isn't true and that "euphoric man-love" is actually the most common theme instead, please feel free to show us. I simply have not seen that to generally be the case with only VERY few exceptions to the contrary. The anti-Prior posts, on the other hand, have almost all jumped on him for being "selfish" or "soft" or "weak" and as if he wanted to be paid for not pitching. Yes, there have been some that focused mostly on the economic effects, but most of them jump right to hysterical levels of insulting and emotion that far surpasses any "euphoric man-love." I'm also not sure where you're seeing many people convinced that he would be likely to return to his earlier "dominance." It sounds that most people who wanted him back probably felt that he could still be an effective starter at some point, but that's not the same as assuming he'll be as good as he was at his peak.

That situation is by far the exception to the rule, not the norm. By your standards, baseball is mostly populated by "non-men" who don't take less money because they've been hurt. How is he sabotaging them? You have ridiculous man-love for Prior. Are you his Physical Therapist, or something? I just think the vitriol and hyperbole directed at him is beyond ridiculous.

That situation is by far the exception to the rule, not the norm. By your standards, baseball is mostly populated by "non-men" who don't take less money because they've been hurt. How is he sabotaging them?

The comments that everyone focuses on all came relatively recently. It would appear that the situation between him and the organization came to a head during the last season. There's little evidence that things were seriously hostile or ugly before that, so it's a little unfair to try and stretch his comments after spring training this year back over the last few years. That said, comments like the ones that I bolded make no sense whatsoever when they're stated like they're obviously true.

Exactly...Look at Kerry Wood..Loyal, Dedicated guy...Mark Prior...Bottle and bib.. Yeah, heaven forbid a guy doesn't have loyalty for as team that fanned rumors of his "wussiness" which ended up delaying a surgery he needed for two years. While I agree the Cubs didn't handle the whole thing very well, Prior also had his own doctors and met with general MLB-servicing doctors, too. It seems everyone was trying to avoid surgery unless it was absolutely necessary. Based on how he rebounded from the line drive and the collision and everything else, I don't find that hope too surprising, even in hindsight. He kept getting hurt and kept coming back after rest and conditioning, and that's obviously preferrable to surgery.

Mark Prior wanted a raise. He wanted 3.5 mill plus to sit on his butt until July at least. No, he wanted it as part of a deal where he'd ideally be pitching the 2nd half of the year and onwards. Do you REALLY think his goal is to get paid to not pitch? Stop for a second, think about that, and then answer. He's not negotiating for the first few months of 2008. He's negotiating for the next step of his baseball career. I don't think that is his goal, but thats definitely part of his problem. Hes not willin to budge on this, and he doesen't care about it. If he REALLY thought that he'd be able to come back and pitch games, then he would have accepted the contract. But he didn't because he knows theres more then a good chance that he won't pitch in the majors in 2008. BTW, hes not negotiating for the next step of his career, because he has the prove himself healthy first in order to get a long term deal. Teams won't give him alot of money or years, to be on the DL. Either way, Mark Prior has to prove himself a healthy baseball player, which is why this entire contract situation stinks of money and his unwillingness to work with the Chicago Cubs. He IS negotiating for the next step in his career, since he's still very young and only has one year left on his contract. There's a good chance he wanted to secure his future as much as possible. Again, we're not talking on the level of most major MLB contracts...you keep going on like he was undoubtably asking for a huge payday. Unless it was some massive increase, it was likely a raise requested still within the context of someone who has something to prove, but wants to secure his income at this level as much as possible, just like almost any other player in that spot with his demonstrated capabilities and potential recovery would do. He's not some kind of isolated incident in this regard. People keep talking like he was robbing the Cubs blind with some massive contract. Why are you so quick to question what others write, and then in the same breath, turn right around and offer NOTHING but your own pure speculation, and treat it as though your speculation should be treated as fact? I'm sorry, but you don't the details of what Prior asked for any more than you'd know what a hummer from Jessica Alba would feel like. And you sure don't know more about the details of this deal than anyone else on this site, so why do you try so hard to act like you do? Which is why I put this in the post I made immediately following the one you quoted: I don't know why you bolded that final part. It's talking about people ranting like he's had a huge contract over the last few years. He hasn't. How is that speculation or even opinion on my part? The first part of that bolded section is also referring to what he was making with the Cubs, not theoretically what his new contract would have been. That second part of that part was a guess on my part, hence why I said "likely" instead of stating it definitively. In that post you quoted, I specifically attempted to not use definitive statements because I'm well aware it's only my opinion. Analyzing the situation as a whole, it seems like a safe guess that Prior wasn't asking for a massive contract increase. No I don't know for sure, but it's highly unlikely that he did so, especially based on his previous negotiations. Ranting like he did ask for the moon has no basis in anything.

Nobody has any idea if it's for a year of rehab. The best we have to go on is his agent saying that it may take a few extra months "IF ONE WANTS TO BE CONSERVATIVE." I think that's him making a statement based on his client's unfortunate history until this point, not as a declarative statemen as to when he will definitely be ready to pitch. Yes, Prior unfortunately has a history of delays, but those were also when a problem couldn't be identified or anything really done about it. The surgery is a huge x-factor. Obviously, this is all my opinion, but it's hardly anything outside of the realm of very good possibility.

Mark Prior wanted a raise. He wanted 3.5 mill plus to sit on his butt until July at least. No, he wanted it as part of a deal where he'd ideally be pitching the 2nd half of the year and onwards. Do you REALLY think his goal is to get paid to not pitch? Stop for a second, think about that, and then answer. He's not negotiating for the first few months of 2008. He's negotiating for the next step of his baseball career. I don't think that is his goal, but thats definitely part of his problem. Hes not willin to budge on this, and he doesen't care about it. If he REALLY thought that he'd be able to come back and pitch games, then he would have accepted the contract. But he didn't because he knows theres more then a good chance that he won't pitch in the majors in 2008. BTW, hes not negotiating for the next step of his career, because he has the prove himself healthy first in order to get a long term deal. Teams won't give him alot of money or years, to be on the DL. Either way, Mark Prior has to prove himself a healthy baseball player, which is why this entire contract situation stinks of money and his unwillingness to work with the Chicago Cubs. He IS negotiating for the next step in his career, since he's still very young and only has one year left on his contract. There's a good chance he wanted to secure his future as much as possible. Again, we're not talking on the level of most major MLB contracts...you keep going on like he was undoubtably asking for a huge payday. Unless it was some massive increase, it was likely a raise requested still within the context of someone who has something to prove, but wants to secure his income at this level as much as possible, just like almost any other player in that spot with his demonstrated capabilities and potential recovery would do. He's not some kind of isolated incident in this regard. People keep talking like he was robbing the Cubs blind with some massive contract.

It's ironic that people are clamoring for dumping valuable chunks of our team for Bedard, a young pitcher already with a significant and chronic injury history, while others are celebrating gleefully the release of the "weak" Mark Prior.

Many, many, many pitchers have come back from surgeries to have productive careers. It's not like we're looking at some fluke thing here that rarely happens. It's also not like we're looking at someone who likely asked for an insane pay bump. People are responding like he was asking them to double his salary, or more. I seriously doubt that was the case.

A 4.02 ERA and a 1.35 WHIP is "damn above average"? I get that in 2003, the kid was just dominant. In 2005, he was pretty good as well. 2004 might count as decent, though a #2 pitcher racking up those numbers in less than 120 IP hardly counts as "damn above average." Hell, if you're gonna trumpet Prior's good years, you're much better off pointing out 2002 than you are pointing out 2004. I'd happily take Prior at what he'll likely make for those 2004 numbers over guys like Marquis or Dempster. And the end of the 2004 season he was clearly back on track. Besides, he was making peanuts. Rating him as a "#2" starter is ultimately meaningless. If he was being paid to be one, alright, fine...but he was being paid a tiny sum in MLB terms. Yeah, you would. You'd pay him $2 million, hoping that once he finally is able to pitch again in July that somehow, magically, after not pitching in almost two years that he'll duplicate what he did FOUR YEARS AGO. Only a Cubs fan could even dream something like this up.... Really? For a pitcher as young as he is, with a ceiling as high as his and as much money as this organization has, that's nothing. I'm not looking for "magic" at all...I was hoping tha this club would be able to take a chance on an injured pitcher, as they have many times, for relatively little money, in the hope of some return. The upisde of tha with Prior, as opposed to others they've done it with (Dempster, Williamson, Miller, etc.) is that his ceiling is so high that even a Prior with reduced capability would be incredibly useful, especially at that price. Combine that wih him finally having surgery where something was determined to be wrong and ideally "fixed," it's not too much of a stretch to think he could have possibly been productive at some point in 2008, and cheap. Unfortunately, it appears something gummed up that idea. Please explain what is so fantastic about this. Few people were expecting him to come back and pitch like he did before 2004. But to talk like anything less is useless, especially at how little he would cost, is absurd. How do you know what his ceiling is? I mean, how do you really know? Look, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. Well, anything that even sniffs 2003 would have been incredibly useful, so we could use that as his ceiling for the sake of the discussion. That season actually happened, and he actualy pitched as amazing as he did that year...why couldn't that work as a gague of what he's theoretically "most" capable of?

Mark Prior wanted a raise. He wanted 3.5 mill plus to sit on his butt until July at least. No, he wanted it as part of a deal where he'd ideally be pitching the 2nd half of the year and onwards. Do you REALLY think his goal is to get paid to not pitch? Stop for a second, think about that, and then answer. He's not negotiating for the first few months of 2008. He's negotiating for the next step of his baseball career.

A 4.02 ERA and a 1.35 WHIP is "damn above average"? I get that in 2003, the kid was just dominant. In 2005, he was pretty good as well. 2004 might count as decent, though a #2 pitcher racking up those numbers in less than 120 IP hardly counts as "damn above average." Hell, if you're gonna trumpet Prior's good years, you're much better off pointing out 2002 than you are pointing out 2004. I'd happily take Prior at what he'll likely make for those 2004 numbers over guys like Marquis or Dempster. And the end of the 2004 season he was clearly back on track. Besides, he was making peanuts. Rating him as a "#2" starter is ultimately meaningless. If he was being paid to be one, alright, fine...but he was being paid a tiny sum in MLB terms. Yeah, you would. You'd pay him $2 million, hoping that once he finally is able to pitch again in July that somehow, magically, after not pitching in almost two years that he'll duplicate what he did FOUR YEARS AGO. Only a Cubs fan could even dream something like this up.... Really? For a pitcher as young as he is, with a ceiling as high as his and as much money as this organization has, that's nothing. I'm not looking for "magic" at all...I was hoping tha this club would be able to take a chance on an injured pitcher, as they have many times, for relatively little money, in the hope of some return. The upisde of tha with Prior, as opposed to others they've done it with (Dempster, Williamson, Miller, etc.) is that his ceiling is so high that even a Prior with reduced capability would be incredibly useful, especially at that price. Combine that wih him finally having surgery where something was determined to be wrong and ideally "fixed," it's not too much of a stretch to think he could have possibly been productive at some point in 2008, and cheap. Unfortunately, it appears something gummed up that idea. Please explain what is so fantastic about this. Few people were expecting him to come back and pitch like he did before 2004. But to talk like anything less is useless, especially at how little he would cost, is absurd. I think what you're failing to understand, is that money was offered to Prior. Everybody in the world knows that. He didn't accept. For whatever reason Prior walked. If Prior wanted to stay in Chicago, and Hendry turns him down, thats a different story. Prior flat out, wanted a raise. And he was rejected. How and where are these details available? Hometown discounts like the ones Aramis and Wood took are not the norm in baseball. This is these guy's jobs and this is the level they negotiate at. Prior is potentially looking at his career being done at a VERY young age if he can't come back, so is it really all that surprising that he's trying to get as much as he can? I disagree with the people who declare that it's impossibe for him to get more money elsewhere. On the MLB scale, he's barely being paid anything as it is. What's most frustrating is calling him things like a "mooch" implies he wanted to get paid for a minimum of work, and I just don't see that. The guy showed that he wans to pitch time and time again. He didn't pitch only when couldn't pitch, not because he decided not to pitch.

Hahhahahaha, if somebody gritty and Texan said that he'd be a total team player, but since he's some Cal-eye-forn-eye-aaaaa pretty boy, he's not a team player. \ No...everybody would call him a Hillbilly. The funniest thing about this, is that 2008 will be his rehab year, and he prolly wont pitch more then 5 games, or pitch AT ALL. So with that being said, guessing he'll pitch in 2009.....he woulden't have pitched a complete full season in what...........6 YEARS!!! People are sad, that the Cubs aren't giving him a 2-3 year deal. Excuse me but.....hahahahaha. Hes gonna mooch in 2008, and in 2009 MAY have the health to actually pitch. Sorry, but with him mooching 1 year, and then not pitching a full complete season in 6 years.......GOODBYE! So was D-Lee a "mooch" in 2006? What specific time limit dtermines who is simply injured and who is a "mooch?" He becomes a mooch by thinking green and wanting a big deal with alot of money. He becomes a mooch by knowing that hes gonna sit out half a season, and rehab the other half, but still wanting more money elsewhere. I dont think he'll sign with the Padres. The Padres are a cheap franchise, and he could've gotten more money with us. I bet he ends up on a big market team willing to throw him bucks. This is a person that could've stayed a Chicago Cub, but thinks he can get money and years elsewhere. So, in short, you're going to completely guess or make everything up. Wrong. Its a fact he won't pitch until July. And its a fact that once he comes back, he'll be rehabbing. Its a fact that he snubbed the Chicago Cubs as a result of a contract dispute. Nothing you've posted in what I quoted is a "fact."