Sammy Sofa

One of the most shameless (and pointless) of the, "oh, Obama did this? Well, then I must do the opposite"-moves.

Judas, you are up if Brian707 is a no show by 10-ish.

That wasn't terrible!

OH NO 4 BALLS.

OH NO A BALL.

Personally, I think it would have taken a couple of those guys and then some prospects, and I would have been than fine with the main duo being any combination of them. Now, I'm a baseball idiot, but I don't think any pair of those guys being replaced the Yelich puts the 2018 Cubs at the same or worse than they were in 2017. I think the most valuable pairing at the time would have been Baez and Contreras, and a FO supposedly as ahead of the curve as this one should have been really horsefeathering aware early on that between catchers typically having a pretty short shelf life AND Contreras needs to hit a ton to offset his framing that he was a prime sell high candidate. Instead we just have him and horsefeathers AND the current horsefeathering OF, which feels insane to type. How have they horsefeathering botched so many aspects of this team SO spectacularly in such a short frame of time? You wanted to trade Javy and Contreras for Yelich coming out of 2017? I don't think I ever didn't want to trade Baez before Russell completely imploded. But no, I clearly never said that I was championing the idea of trading those specific guys for Yelich back in 2017. I DID really want the Cubs to trade for Yelich, and while I would have been very surprised at the time if they had traded Contreras for him, hindsight shows that's the kind of thing that I wish the FO was willing and able to do. I just don't get how they seem to have been on board with the whole "framing is actually really, REALLY valuable" thing from early on, yet decided to go all in on Contreras as their starting catcher seemingly on the basis of his bat carrying him, when plenty of teams have been getting comparable or better value from that position from guys who can't hit worth a damn. So, yeah, at this point I wish they had traded him, or that they had tried to move him to a different position (especially since I think they knew they weren't actually going after Harper for a while).

BPs projection system says that, which seems like a ridiculous amount of weight to put on framing. I do think it’s important and Willy needs to get better (early indications are he is) and agree with the things you mentioned as things I’ve noticed too. Our staff of soft tossing MF’ers who can’t command probably doesn’t help either. You can only frame so well when you set up in one quadrant and your pitchers are missing in the complete opposite one. Ah, gotcha; I was going by Fangraphs. But yeah, good point about the pitchers the FO has gone after; I think Contreras' framing would be more serviceable if they hadn't inexplicably bucked the trend of stocking bullpens with power arms and went with control/finesse/spin rate/groundball/whatever the horsefeathers guys instead. If stuff that just has me baffled; there's zero chance the FO weren't aware of his catching issues, but they clearly decided to go all in on him, so why mostly go after pitchers who would HUGELY benefit from a good or great framer?

Error upon error! #thatssocub

I wonder if there's anything to the idea that catchers would clearly benefit from more time in the minors than pretty much all of the other positions.

Wait, who is saying that about either guys? But yeah, I do think it is basically THE most critical part of the position. Now, whether it's being tracked accurately, I don't know. My own dumbed down take is that Contreras moves his glove/arm way too much when catching and it screws up a ton of calls.

Well, at this point we pretty much have to hope you're right.

The balls of this org to willfully put THIS team out there right before they try to launch a TV network. Holy horsefeathers. That's astonishing.

And to me, that highlights how much they got blindsided by just how much framing matters. There was some kind of disconnect or something, because they obviously weren't unaware of it, but I think they were behind the curve. If Miguel Montero can be as valuable as he was (and I know those Fangraph numbers have been revised), than there's no reason to hold onto an obviously seriously flawed catcher like Contreras just because he swings a decent bat at a position where guys are lucky to last long, and that's the kind of thing I would hope and expect this FO would beat most everyone else to. It's all hindsight now, but it's too bad they missed the window where you could get great inflated value for a guy like Contreras as a catcher. At this point I'd rather they try and make him a corner OF, or maybe 3B. Ugh; what a mess.

Personally, I think it would have taken a couple of those guys and then some prospects, and I would have been than fine with the main duo being any combination of them. Now, I'm a baseball idiot, but I don't think any pair of those guys being replaced the Yelich puts the 2018 Cubs at the same or worse than they were in 2017. I think the most valuable pairing at the time would have been Baez and Contreras, and a FO supposedly as ahead of the curve as this one should have been really horsefeathering aware early on that between catchers typically having a pretty short shelf life AND Contreras needs to hit a ton to offset his framing that he was a prime sell high candidate. Instead we just have him and fuckingCaratini AND the current horsefeathering OF, which feels insane to type. How have they horsefeathering botched so many aspects of this team SO spectacularly in such a short frame of time?

We also don’t know what the ask was, it’s entirely possible there just wasn’t really a fit or the ask was like Javy, Happ or Willy and other stuff (which I can understand not doing that). Yeah, and I also think Lewis Brinson was more highly regraded than the Happs of the world and would have taken more of the Javy types. Javy types SHOULD net you someone like Yelich. Being in the Cubs' position and instead relying on Javy types is something I just don't understand.

It's a question of priorities, at the time did it make more sense to empty the org of its trade assets and some payroll flexibility to get Yelich when the team had plenty of offense even when you don't count on the outfielders(Bryant, Rizzo, Contreras, Baez, Zobrist)? Or did it make more sense to focus on replacing Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis from the pitching staff where the incumbents were much less strong? I get the idea around trading Yelich(again, I voted for it), but the idea that the alternative was inexcusable is revisionist history. We also don’t know what the ask was, it’s entirely possible there just wasn’t really a fit or the ask was like Javy, Happ or Willy and other stuff (which I can understand not doing that). I absolutely wanted him too, I think I even started the thread on making him our main target last offseason before he was even known to be available. I would’ve been fine doing just about any trade to get him. Post 2017, any of those 3 guys should have been easily, EASILY (IMO) on the table for someone like Yelich. Again, even pre-God mode Yelich had already shown he was much more of a sure bet (again, IMO) than any of those guys. Hell, Yelich had already essentially had 2 of Baez's 2018 season without having to be some kind of bizarre baseball freak amalgamation. Plus I guess I don't understand the "focus on replacing the pitching staff part" via significant trade instead of trading for Yelich, since they didn't.

This OF is such an inexcusable nightmare. The pitching is stealing its shitty thunder, but it is damn debatable which part of the team the FO has fucked up worse.

La Stella did a performance art piece about how downhill is actually bad for his old team:

Not a gaping hole necessarily, sure, but enough of a clear and obvious upgrade, IMO, that it was the kind of move a so-called wonderkid FO or whatever the horsefeathers should be all over. I mean, just for not having to manage the whole thing optimally between 6 guys regularly for not THAT much more money alone it seems so obvious. Preferring to go with that over Stanton? I get it; I don't like it, but I get it. Preferring to go with that over getting Yelich? Sorry; that just seems pointlessly dumb and stubborn, even prior to God mode Yelich.

I honestly can't tell if TT's assessment of that platoon is supposed to be praising them or a knock against them.

In hindsight I unfortunately get why they didn't even try with Stanton; I don't believe for a second that the budget issues were any kind of surprise for anyone running the team. But, man, even pre-worldbeater Yelich was SO perfect with his contract and the position he played and how valuable he was with the bat. That's where I start veering into getting annoyed along the lines of the FO being too enamored with "their guys" or being too in love with the idea of a cheap, clever platoon that MIGHT work.

I mean, Ozuna to the Cardinals is technically annoying, but it just doesn't even compare to how much it sucks that Yelich ended up with the Brewers. Even without him stepping up to what he is now, he was absolutely perfect on so many levels for what this Cubs team needed (and still desperately needs). They should have been willing to give up anyone short of Bryant to get him.

Oh, that's right; baseball can bring something other than madness and fury.

"Guys, I'm retiring!"

They have consistently, bizarrely sucked at getting guys home sans dong with this core...except for 2016, when they were firmly middle of the pack.