Andy

And Oklahoma was garbage for a while before Stoops got there. Miami and Florida were both pretty nondescript for a while there - hell, Miami still kind of is, though they appear on the way back up. It's not hard to figure out the common denominator. The ability to get any athlete they want. Are you privy to some sort of information that suggests these teams couldn't get any athlete they wanted during the Blake era at OU, the Stallings era at Bama, the Coker era at Miami or the Zooker era at Florida?

Apart from more parity, I fail to see what makes the "college football landscape" (my favorite vague phrase people throw out when they have no concrete evidence of anything) any different than it was when PSU and FSU joined a conference, which, BTW, was in the early to mid 90s, not the 80s.

And Oklahoma was garbage for a while before Stoops got there. Miami and Florida were both pretty nondescript for a while there - hell, Miami still kind of is, though they appear on the way back up. It's not hard to figure out the common denominator.

ND fans are quite delusional if you and GR are representative samples, and I think you are. However, if they get Kelly they will be getting a very good coach. He's a pretty good defensive guy, the trick is getting the kids. I think you and the rest of the ND fans will be happy with him. I don't think ND will every be considered a top program on a consistent basis ever again unless they join a conference. We all know how the Domers feel about that. Pride. WE ARE ND! Miami won like 100 titles in the 1980s immediately before joining a conference. Florida State was consistently top 5 before joining a conference. Penn State won for a billion years before joining a conference. Pretending conference membership cures an ill is a ridiculous opinion.

For God's sake, quit trolling. you're the one that made the comparison, andrew, not me. I also put Bama in there, who is considered a huge brand in college football, but you ignored that and went for the one that would rile people up. Like I should've been surprised.

For God's sake, quit trolling.

In the midst of this, I don't think it was mentioned that Kelly is interviewing tomorrow in NYC, where he is for some sort of function.

Meh. Other people got involved. It's just so easy to refute the point.

And Willingham 'did it' with Davie's kids (I say that in quotes because that 2002 team was smoke and mirrors defined). People think ND's expectations are higher than they are. Our own athletic director said the goal is "to be in the BCS conversation" on a consistent basis. There are a slew of programs with those goals, yet ND is the one cited as having unattainable expectations. It makes no sense.

Notre Dame is 221-124 in that span. It would take a while to get the others on that list, but I'd bet you anything that at least a couple of them have been worse. What kills me is that people think ND can't win anymore, but everyone agrees that Faust, Davie, Willingham and Weis (who have coached 18 of the last 29 seasons of ND football) were [expletive] football coaches. So which is it?

5 Ws in Michigan. 7 Ws in Oklahoma. Guess they can't win anymore either, if we're going to play this game with just this year's performances.

National championships since 1980. Notre Dame: 1 Georgia: 1 Penn State: 1 Alabama: 1 Michigan: 1 Tennessee: 1 Texas: 1 Teams that haven't been to a BCS game since at least 2006 (last time ND went): Florida State Michigan Tennessee Georgia Miami Pittsburgh Guess those teams can't win anymore either. You want to break the news to them or should I?

There's one 's' in Weis. And there's one 's' in Clausen. And there's one 'e' in Kelly. And you're wrong.

You're wrong. I'm not debating it. they can't get get a good coach, and they either waste good recruits' development on bad coaches or just flat out can't recruit anyway. They haven't been good in any current teenager's lifetime and won't for the foreseeable future. The girls on campus are all ugly, the fans are terrible and the academics are harder 99% of the competition. There's literally no reason for anyone to go to notre dame. you'll probably end up with some third-tier coach, anyway. Just get used to a life of arguing over whether or not you deserved the Insight Bowl or the Humanitarian.com bowl (see: missouri). Four years ago they were an illegal push from the national title game, with a team that really shouldn't have even been that good. Again, you're wrong. I'm simply not going to debate it. ETA: Look, I'm not saying that ND's ever going to be a consistent title contender again. Hardly any team can be or has been a title contender for more than two straight years these days, so that's probably out of the question. But there's little reason that Notre Dame can't be at least like an Oklahoma or a Florida, consistently in the BCS conversation with occasional runs to the title. Charlie Weis proved you can get very talented kids to play for Notre Dame, so it comes down to the next coach to keep that up.

You're wrong. I'm not debating it.

Harbough or Pat Fitzgerald if Kelly is out of the running. Harbaugh is never going to be the HC at ND. It's ridiculous. Fitzgerald won't either, he's already denied interest.

My favorite two tidbits from the poll: Cincy got one first-place vote. Brian Kelly gave it to them. Bo Pelini voted Texas #1.

My team knocked the crap out of dew's and I'm going to end up far and away the points leader for the season in the league. I'll be the 3 seed and who I play is still up in the air.

That came out of nowhere. Weis apologized to Carroll though, and Carroll accepted it. I was reading where he told some other reporter that "Carroll kicked the crap out of me five times". Meanwhile, Stoops is out, Urban's not an option, I think Kelly would be here by now if he was going to be the guy...who IS Notre Dame going to get?

Damn it, Favre tossing picks in the 3rd quarter was exactly what I didn't need. I had Warner, Boldin AND Breaston and needed probably 25 more points to win. Instead the Cards stopped passing and gave the ball to my opponent's RB, Beanie Wells.

Completely unrelated, but if you're interested in buying NFL stuff for yourself or for a Christmas gift for someone, NFLShop.com has a buy one get one half-off deal going tonight only. They have a different deal every day but I imagine this is about as good as one gets. I just bought a gift for someone else and a T-shirt for myself.

ESPN's Andy Staples just Tweeted that Virginia will introduce Richmond head coach Mike London as their new head man on Monday afternoon.

I wouldn't have a problem with Bama being consensus #1 if they stomp Texas as they should. But if Texas somehow won in a close game and one of TCU/Boise stomps the other, I'd really hope that the latter would be voted #1.

Well, here's your all-encompassing bowl thread. Should be an eventful December and January in college football as usual. New Mexico Bowl in Albuquerque, NM – 12/19, 4:30 pm (ESPN) Wyoming vs Fresno State St. Petersburg Bowl in St. Petersburg, FL- 12/19, 8 pm (ESPN) Rutgers vs Central Florida R&L Carriers New Orleans Bowl in New Orleans, LA - 12/20, 8:30 pm (ESPN) Southern Miss vs Middle Tennessee MAACO Las Vegas Bowl in Las Vegas, NV – 12/22, 8 pm (ESPN) (14) BYU vs (18) Oregon State San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl in San Diego, CA – 12/23, 8 pm (ESPN) (23) Utah vs California Sheraton Hawaii Bowl in Honolulu, HI – 12/24, 8 pm (ESPN) SMU vs Nevada Little Caesars Pizza Bowl in Detroit, MI – 12/26, 1 pm (ESPN) Marshall vs Ohio Meineke Car Care Bowl in Charlotte, NC – 12/26, 4:30 pm (ESPN) North Carolina vs (17) Pittsburgh Emerald Bowl in San Francisco, CA – 12/26, 8 pm (ESPN) Boston College vs (24) USC Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl in Nashville, TN – 12/27, 8:30 pm (ESPN) Clemson vs Kentucky AdvoCare V100 Independence Bowl in Shreveport, LA – 12/28, 5 pm (ESPN2) Texas A&M vs Georgia EagleBank Bowl in Washington, DC – 12/29, 4:30 pm (ESPN) Temple vs UCLA Champs Sports Bowl in Orlando, FL – 12/29, 8 pm (ESPN) (15) Miami vs (25) Wisconsin Roady’s Humanitarian Bowl in Boise, ID – 12/30, 4:30 pm (ESPN) Bowling Green vs Idaho Pacific Life Holiday Bowl in San Diego, CA – 12/30, 8 pm (ESPN) (22) Nebraska vs (20) Arizona Bell Helicopter Armed Forces Bowl in Fort Worth, TX – 12/31, 12 pm (ESPN) Houston vs Air Force Brut Sun Bowl in El Paso, TX – 12/31, 2 pm (CBS) Oklahoma vs (21) Stanford Texas Bowl in Houston, TX – 12/31, 3:30 pm (ESPN) Missouri vs Navy Insight Bowl in Tempe, AZ -12/31, 6 pm (NFL Network) Minnesota vs Iowa State Chick-fil-A Bowl in Atlanta, GA – 12/31, 7 pm (ESPN) (11) Virginia Tech vs Tennessee Outback Bowl in Tampa, FL – 1/1, 11 am (ESPN) Northwestern vs Auburn Capital One Bowl in Orlando, FL – 1/1, 1 pm (ABC) (13) Penn State vs (12) LSU Konica Minolta Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, FL – 1/1, 1 pm (CBS) Florida State vs (16) West Virginia International Bowl in Toronto, ON – 1/2, 12 pm (ESPN2) South Florida vs Northern Illinois Papajohns.com Bowl in Birmingham, AL – 1/2, 2 pm (ESPN) UConn vs South Carolina AT&T Cotton Bowl in Arlington, TX – 1/2, 2 pm (FOX) (19) Oklahoma State vs Ole Miss AutoZone Liberty Bowl in Memphis, TN – 1/2, 5:30 pm (ESPN) East Carolina vs Arkansas Valero Alamo Bowl in San Antonio, TX – 1/2, 9 pm (ESPN) Michigan State vs Texas Tech GMAC Bowl in Mobile, AL – 1/6, 7 pm (ESPN) Troy vs Central Michigan BCS Games: Rose Bowl in Pasadena, CA – 1/1, 4:30 pm (ABC) (7) Oregon vs (8) Ohio State Allstate Sugar Bowl in New Orleans, LA – 1/1, 8:30 pm (FOX) (5) Florida vs (3) Cincinnati Tostitos Fiesta Bowl in Glendale, AZ - 1/4, 8 pm (FOX) (6) Boise State vs (4) TCU FedEx Orange Bowl in Miami, FL – 1/5, 8 pm (FOX) (9) Georgia Tech vs (10) Iowa Citi National Championship Game in Pasadena, CA – 1/7, 8 pm (ABC) (2) Texas vs (1) Alabama

They drew Miami in the Champs Sports Bowl. The stupid thing is, I don't think people would mind this system nearly as much if they had just sucked it up and matched Boise/Cincy and TCU/Florida or Boise/Florida and TCU/Cincy. They still wouldn't like it, but at least the matchups would be fun. They handled this the worst way it could be handled, as usual.