SpongeWorthy

http://www.kornheiserscartel.com/uploaded_images/Devin-Hester-711418.jpg Oh hai its just me Devin Hester thuggin out doing [expletive] cuz I'm from THE U. http://www.allcanes.com/blog/uploaded_images/nflU_small-769930.jpg

Hey fellas, Anyone wanna talk about the first place Chicago Bears? Oh hey it's just Devin Hester and Greg Olsen doing thug [expletive] because they are awesome and from THE U

wtf

I don't think that sentiment was meant to be taken seriously.

I think he was more known for being the NFL's all time leading scorer for a really long time.

For some god awful reason it's 108 degrees at my house and I don't have air conditioning so I'm going to the bar for this one.

nate silver did a BP article detailing the biggest collapses in baseball history. the phillies barely cracked the top 10, because they were playing a strong schedule. i think their collapse was so memorable because they went on a 10 game losing streak and just played terribly for the last two weeks. some notable teams that had bigger collapses: -1978 red sox (96.5% to make playoffs on august 12th with an 8 game lead on the yankees - red sox went 26-22 the rest of the way while the yanks were 35-13) -1942 brooklyn dodgers (96.9% to make the playoffs; 79-33, 9.5 games ahead of the Cardinals. went 25-17 the rest of the way while the cardinals were 38-6, the second-best 44 game stretch in baseball history) -1969 cubs (97.90% on august 19th; 77-45 and 8 games ahead of the mets, went 15-25 down the stretch) -2003 mariners (97.91% on june 18th, 7.5 games ahead of the A's in the AL west and 8.0 games ahead of the red sox in the wild card; finished 45-47) -1993 giants (98.25% on august 7th, 74-47 and 9.5 games ahead of the braves, finished 29-22 but braves went 39-11) -1951 brooklyn dodgers (99.74% on august 12th, 73-36 and 12.5 games ahead of the new york giants, finished 25-24 while giants went 37-8) -2007 mets (99.8% on september 12th, 83-62 and 7.0 games ahead of the phillies; went 5-12 the rest of the way while the phillies went 13-4. what was notable about the mets' collapse is that they lost to some awful teams - they went 1-5 against the nationals during that stretch and lost 2 out of 3 in their last series against the marlins) -1995 angels (99.988% on august 20th, 66-41 and 9.5 games ahead of the rangers and 12.5 games ahead of the mariners in the AL west, 12.0 games ahead of the yankees for the wild card. finished 12-26. the odds of them missing the playoffs were 8,332-to-1) That seems like there are far too many instances of those collapses happening for those percentages to be accurate. Statistically, the 1995 Angels shouldn't have even happened once in MLB history and you've got 7 other collapses where the odds were over 96.5%.

No but I watched a lot of Sam Young in college and the idea that he doesn't have enough quickness to consistently hold up on a deep drop against a good NFL defensive end is pretty obvious. But if you want to delude yourself into thinking that Notre Dame has the same caliber athletes, have at it. The difference between Harrison Smith and Eric Berry isn't just player development though. FWIW: I'd say the same thing about USC the last two seasons vs. Alabama/Florida as I do about ND (to a lesser extent though) despite what the star rankings might say. Our athletes aren't as good.

Flames is good people but chucky has piqued my ire.

Hopefully tonight he won't try to take the game into his own hands by audibling to some weird direct snap to the up man because he thinks the Packers have too many men on the field.

And I'm saying that when a guy is a 5-star, #1 OT, and #11 overall player, any team would love to have him. That's why every team recruited him. So how is Sam Young, coming out of HS, not a John Wall type? B/c 5 years later it doesn't look like he was the best OT in HS that year? Maybe it's b/c Rivals and every team that recruited him was wrong or maybe his OL coach at ND didn't develop him. Your analogy makes no sense at all. Sam Young is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. He was a great high school player that was limited at the next level because of a lack of lateral quickness and strength. He had a decent career but all the player development in the world wasn't going to turn him into Ryan Clady or anything. Your logic seems to imply that every high school player is the same kind of prospect based on their star rankings. Clearly there are guys that are 4/5 stars because they're polished have sound technique and are decent athletes. And then there are other guys that are big recruits because they're huge, fast, but maybe a bit raw.

My Duke analogy isn't difficult to follow at all. Are you being intentionally dense? You're using star rankings to prove that all 4/5 star players are of similar athletic ability. That's clearly not true in basketball and I'm submitting that it's not all that true in football either. Edit: I don't think I'd be breaking any news to ND fans by saying Sam Young had a fairly disappointing career despite all the starts.

ND plays a 3-4. Which are the back 7? A handful of ND DBs, including 3 safeties, are on NFL rosters. And Manti will be. And Gary Gray has been incredible this year (admittedly, for the first time in his 4 years, though his leg injury messed him up). I don't know how much is development, how much is different systems, etc. The seniors, for example, have played the 4-3, 3-4, 4-3, 3-4 in their 4 years. And last year was Tenuta's 4-3, which is a different animal and there was a lot of in-fighting between Tenuta and Brown b/c their systems were opposite ends of the spectrum. Some people close to the team are saying how happy the DBs are to just be playing in a system where all the coaches agree. Yes, if you're just looking at the screen, ND's talent hasn't looked great at times. But I don't trust your eye for talent more than Rivals. Rivals says ND has as much talent on its roster as any team not named USC and maybe Florida. So if Kelly is really the great coach he's supposed to be, he'll turn that talent into wins. If not, some other guy will be in SB in 3-5 years. Hopefully Kelly leaves the cupboard as "bare" as Weis did. The same guys who rate prospects for Rivals can also look at a Notre Dame game and see that their talent isn't of the same quality as other powerhouse programs. It's better than most but not that level. That's most simply reflected in the drafting of those very same players into the NFL. And Weis didn't recruit Ndukwe or Zbikowski. Other than that, who has he put in the league on defense or along the offensive line? The top programs put guys into the league year after year. ND's only shown they can do that with skill players in the Weis era. Maybe it is development...and it probably mostly is, but I don't see the raw athleticism at linebacker, offensive line, defensive line, and especially in the secondary for the most part. Justin Tuck is the last guy I'd look at from Notre Dame and can immediately say, "ok yeah, that guys a freak." Manti's getting there. Why does it matter if Weis recruited guys that are in the NFL now? You asked about recent defensive players that stood out and so I mentioned guys in the NFL. Why does it matter who recruited them? It would be surprising to me if guys from Rivals rated HS players 4 or 5 stars and then saw them play for ND, usually 3 years later, and said "oh they suck, guess we were wrong!" rather than "huh, seems like a player development issue." ND isn't having trouble recruiting. Weis had a lot of trouble developing players. Hopefully Kelly turns that around. Manti's there dude. He's so there. I thin Flames earlier Duke basketball analogy is pretty apt here. On Rivals, a guy like Kyle Singler is neck and neck stars wise with someone like John Wall. Maybe ND is getting more of the Singler types and less of the John Wall types. Pure athleticism is more important in NCAA football than NCAA hoops and the differences become more stark when they move up a level. Sam Young vs. Andre Smith, that sorta thing.

ND plays a 3-4. Which are the back 7? A handful of ND DBs, including 3 safeties, are on NFL rosters. And Manti will be. And Gary Gray has been incredible this year (admittedly, for the first time in his 4 years, though his leg injury messed him up). I don't know how much is development, how much is different systems, etc. The seniors, for example, have played the 4-3, 3-4, 4-3, 3-4 in their 4 years. And last year was Tenuta's 4-3, which is a different animal and there was a lot of in-fighting between Tenuta and Brown b/c their systems were opposite ends of the spectrum. Some people close to the team are saying how happy the DBs are to just be playing in a system where all the coaches agree. Yes, if you're just looking at the screen, ND's talent hasn't looked great at times. But I don't trust your eye for talent more than Rivals. Rivals says ND has as much talent on its roster as any team not named USC and maybe Florida. So if Kelly is really the great coach he's supposed to be, he'll turn that talent into wins. If not, some other guy will be in SB in 3-5 years. Hopefully Kelly leaves the cupboard as "bare" as Weis did. The same guys who rate prospects for Rivals can also look at a Notre Dame game and see that their talent isn't of the same quality as other powerhouse programs. It's better than most but not that level. That's most simply reflected in the drafting of those very same players into the NFL. And Weis didn't recruit Ndukwe or Zbikowski. Other than that, who has he put in the league on defense or along the offensive line? The top programs put guys into the league year after year. ND's only shown they can do that with skill players in the Weis era. Maybe it is development...and it probably mostly is, but I don't see the raw athleticism at linebacker, offensive line, defensive line, and especially in the secondary for the most part. Justin Tuck is the last guy I'd look at from Notre Dame and can immediately say, "ok yeah, that guys a freak." Manti's getting there.

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met. No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated. ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well. I don't really think ND is in that mix. Maybe at the glamor positions. If you can look at an Alabama/LSU/Ohio State/Oklahoma game and then at a ND game and tell me the talent level is fairly equal...I don't know what to tell you (not you, you, the casual ND fan or anyone else who would think that). All I can tell you is to look at the recruiting rankings, esp for players still on the rosters (unlike Alabama, where 100 kids get offers for 25 spots...feels like a law firm). Here's a WSJ article that lists ND as 3rd behind USC and Florida: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703447004575449721827527374.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_Sports_RightTopCarousel_1. The talent hasn't translated into great performance, but the raw talent is there. If only we had a molder of men. Oh wait, we tried that and it failed miserably. I haven't seen a player in ND's back 7 on defense in years who really pops off the screen athletically, besides Manti and maybe Zbikowski (who was a Willingham recruit, IIRC). Bama and Ohio State are littered with those type of guys. Is it ALL player development? It's a huge part of it but I'm skeptical. I don't put much stock in those star ratings. USC hasn't played a complete game since the Rose Bowl game against Penn State and there's a pretty big gap between #1 and #2 by that metric.

It's easy to be faux outraged when you're consistently overstating ND's importance to another teams resume. Christ, how many people were even watching Stanford dismantle ND with all the other games that were going on? They've accumulated a decent a body of work. You're not even acknowledging that UCLA killed Texas a couple weeks after being dominated by Stanford...it's an anti-ND plot! Next Andy will be claiming that it's because of Notre Dame that Luck goes top 5 in the draft next year. (also ND was good in 2002 and 2005 when they supposedly won Palmer and Bush their Heismans, not irrelevant)

It has as much to do with Stanford thrashing UCLA who just throttled Texas on the road as it does with Stanford pounding ND. I think Stanford is really good and clearly better than the 4 teams you mentioned them jumping.

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met. No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated. ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well. I don't really think ND is in that mix. Maybe at the glamor positions. If you can look at an Alabama/LSU/Ohio State/Oklahoma game and then at a ND game and tell me the talent level is fairly equal...I don't know what to tell you (not you, you, the casual ND fan or anyone else who would think that).

Man I want Wilson to do well but he's dying out there. Baptism by fire I guess. Rex still won't give him help over the top.

Not really. Week 1 sure, brilliant in week 2, and really good so far tonight. Last season was up and down as you'd expect from a rookie QB (who came out a year early after only starting 15 games in college) and he played pretty well in the playoffs. He's probably better than Carson Palmer at this point, sadly.

Why didn't you respond to my troll yesterday in the NCAA thread when I called OU's offense girly? Because it is.

Oh hey it's just Mark Sanchez throwing pin point touchdown strikes all over the #1 defense in the NFL. (ignore me i've been drinking steadily for 8 hours)

That may be a slight exaggeration. But there was a lot of writing him off as if the season he had last year was bad for an early entry rookie QB. sulley pretty much did say that but no one takes anything he says seriously, you might know something about that HEH HEH

Look at that awful Mark Sanchez who has no chance of getting better.

Too many blows to the head during his career.