davell

That sure as [expletive] is something to get worked up over. Why? The new guys don't know Campana. Reed is a decent backup OFer. It's doubtful we'll have both Soriano and Byrd by spring training and they've already said Brett is starting the year in AAA.

My guess is we'll give him a major league deal this time. Maybe 1.5ish or so. Nothing to get worked up over.

If this happens, I'm guessing it takes Maholm off our radar.

They don't have much left in their system right now. Hamilton would be cool, just to watch him steal 100 bases and all, but other than that, he's not exciting himself. Daniel corcino, maybe? But he's tiny and probably winds up in the pen? That said, I guess Wood has some value as a 4 or 5 lefty starter, even though I'm not a fan myself. Hopefully we get one of these 2 guys along with him, but my guess is it'll be fodder instead of guys we can get excited over.

Man, I hope we'd be getting more than Wood for Marshall. I'd rather have B grade minor leaguer myself, someone with a little more upside than what Wood has. But, I guess he could just be a piece and we'd be getting a solid prospect as well.

I'm sure this has been asked, but at what price does Prince become better to stay away from? And I'm asking this, knowing that before Rizzo was possibly available and we still had a shot at Darvish, I would have cringed at 8/200, but would feel like we're going to be OK those last couple of years, because of the farm. So, is that the number or is it even higher now that every other star is gone now?

I think everyone's stating their points. I certainly respect what's being said. I have no issue with Fielder either. I'm putting myself out on a limb and if I'm wrong on Rizzo, I'll own it. I'm not a scout, none of us are. I've been wrong before and I've been right as well. It is what it is. And whether I'm right or wrong here, if whatever it does works out, then I'm all for it anyway, as is anyone else reading through this.

So you'd be okay giving a 31 year old Ethier a 4 year deal? Dude, you don't understand; HE'S NOT FAT. You're getting me confused with someone else. My position on Prince has changed somewhat because Rizzo may be available and I really, really like his chances. And because we missed out on a bigtime pitcher. If Rizzo becomes what he's capable of, we'd have that much more cash to spend elsewhere. Along with I'm really starting to think Prince is getting 200 mill. I think he's an impact guy for sure. But I think Rizzo will be and obviously would come a hell of a lot cheaper.

I'd certainly attempt to make it a 3 year deal, but if it came down to it and he had been healthy in 2012, yeah, I'd do it. To me, he's probably getting 12 or 13 per. It's a risk, but it's not THAT big of one. I'd rather go get Upton, but my honest guess is he'll be traded and locked into a longterm deal before he hits FA.

I was asked who we COULD spend money on in 2013. BASED ON A SCENARIO I had mentioned. As one of the biggest bats avaialable that offseason, I mentioned him, proceeded to say he wouldn't hit the market, followed by saying he had tons of red flags, followed by saying if I'm signing a bat from that class, it'd probably be Upton or maybe Ethier, but we'd probably have to trade for a bat because the class is so weak. What a ringing endorsment for Josh Hamilton I gave! Ethier? Jesus Christ. What's wrong with Ethier, other than he's evidently a prick towards some of his current teammates? He played hurt most of this past season and his 3 previous ones he had OPS'S of .885, .869, and .857. He'd be 31 at that point and could probably be had on a 3 or 4 year deal. I don't see a problem with him. He's not great defensively? That's not enough to bother me about him.

I was asked who we COULD spend money on in 2013. BASED ON A SCENARIO I had mentioned. As one of the biggest bats avaialable that offseason, I mentioned him, proceeded to say he wouldn't hit the market, followed by saying he had tons of red flags, followed by saying if I'm signing a bat from that class, it'd probably be Upton or maybe Ethier, but we'd probably have to trade for a bat because the class is so weak. What a ringing endorsment for Josh Hamilton I gave!

I was OK with Prince. But now, since we're not adding the bigtime pitcher, I think I'd take Rizzo over him, unless I could get him for 6 years or less. If I can get him for 6, instead of adding Beltran, in my idea, we've got Prince and different prospects that don't include Rizzo. But, Prince alone isn't making us contend immediately. If we still got Jackson and did NOT trade Garza, then maybe. But personally, I think the longterm bodes better by trading Garza.

ON WHO? Maybe you spend some of it Josh Hamilton? I kind of doubt he hits the market, but I consider him the biggest bat out there, although he's older and certainly has more red flags than most. Howie Kendrick maybe? BJ Upton or Andre Ethier? That's about it for bats. So we'd have to have confidence in Rizzo and expect the system to allow us to trade for a big bat. The majority of this money though, would go towards landing one or possibly 2 of Hamels, Greinke, Cain, Danks, Liriano, McCarthy, A Sanchez, or Marcum. Not all will hit the market but some, if not most, will, in my opinion. So, my pretend offseason would be to trade for a relatively young bat, sign Upton or Ehtier, sign one of Cain, Hamels, or Greinke, and one of McCarthy, Sanchez, or Liriano.

If we traded Brett straight up for Rizzo, I'm OK with it. But, I'd want us all in on Cespedes AND Soler at that point. I think finding a 3rd team and involving Garza is our best shot at landing Rizzo. Toronto maybe, with either Drabek or Alvarez being spun off to SD and Rizzo coming here.

You head into 2013 with Jackson/Chen/Alvarez in your rotation and you have Castro, Brett, DeJesus, Beltran, Rizzo, and maybe Barney as starters. With well over 40 mill to spend. You can backload for a year or two, to help offset Soriano still. You'd have Beltran gone after 2013. Soler could be ready by then, or any number of other IFA we may could sign before July. The hope here is that Rizzo and Brett are solid regulars heading into 2013 and I don't think that's all that hard to imagine honestly. Your system is stocked too, so you've got the ability to add more than one piece through trade now. And still sign a bigtime SP or 2, if you want. Finding the big bat won't be easy, at least probably not a longterm fix, but I figure the system could entice a team to trade us one. But, I see us having an excellent shot at contention from this point forward basically. If there's a downside here, I'm counting on Rizzo to be very solid and I see that. But, I think he will be.

I wanted us to add 2 bigtime guys this year and next, also spending bigtime on IFA's. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening now. Not this year and with what's left. So, let's say we trade Garza, Marshall, and Marmol before the season starts. I think we've missed a shot at trading Soto for now, as I'm not seeing a contender in need of a C. Let's keep Byrd as well, figuring he's tradeable midseason or so, same with Soto. By my math, it's taking another 19 mill off the payroll. Puts us around 92 mill. I figure we've got close to 140 to spend, unless we want to allow for draft penalty money possibly. My idea is to sign Jackson, Chen, Soler, and go ahead and add Carlos Beltran. That puts the payroll back up around 128 mill. I'm saying 12, 5, 5, and 16 respectively. Plus, as a return, let's say we wind up with Rizzo, Henderson Alvarez, Keyvius Sampson, one of Hutchison/Syndergaard/Nicolino, and Brandon Jacobs from Boston. Odd grouping, but I guess I'm assuming trade with Toronto and SD for the other guys. Then, you've still got Byrd and Soto to trade off during the season, along with Demp and Z possibly. Yes, I doubt the team I'm concocting here contends immediately. But, for 2012, you're sending out a rotation of Jackson/Demp/Z/Chen/Alvarez. Your lineup is DeJesus/Barney/Castro/Beltan/Rizzo/Byrd/Soto/Stewart. Your closer is one of Shark/Cash/Wood. Fill in the pen with whoever. It's not great, but it may be better than what we had actually.

I just think that is a ridiculous strategy to take. But, even by technically punting, we'd be able to go get a Beltran andif you don't like Jackson, maybe add an Oswalt on a one year deal. Personally, I like Jackson as a 3 type guy over the next 3 or 4 years, but I certainly see why some may not. I guess you're basically just not wanting to trade Garza, right?

To explain a bit more as to why I'm kind of switching gears on Prince, my reasons are because I don't see us contending in 2012 now. And with the AL teams involved, I see him getting an 8 year deal. He's excellent and I think he will be for another 3 or 4 years. His dropoff could be gradual or steep, I have no clue, nor does anyone else. But, since I don't see us competing in 2012, it gives us a 3 or 4 year window of his best production, with lots to do in the next year to take true advantage of him at his best. If we can get Rizzo and he becomes 80% of Ryan Howard, then we've got that much more money to spend elsewhere and have an extra bigtime player as well. I still think we need 4 guys, but by adding Rizzo and maybe some stud pitching prospect as well, we could still get the 4, plus have more as well.

This isn't about 2012. At all. But yes, the prospects you'd get for Garza, Chen, and Jackson has more value than Garza and Cashner/Shark/etc. Especially since you still have those guys as well around. You'd have Jackson and Chen as middle rotation guys, maybe Shark or Cashner is in the rotation. As what, who knows? But, you've also got a probable top 25 to 50 prospect to plug in somewhere as well, along with a ton of money where, if you want, you have the ability to go get whatever is out there. You were the one worried about the pitching for 2012 in jersey's suggestion. Yeah, you're right. Because he's basically trying to compete in 2012. I think it's better to go ahead and let 2012 pass us by. I'm not sold on Prince being our best option, now that we've not added a frontline pitcher. Nor do I think Cespedes is going to be an answer for us, especially with the Yankees targeting him, Marlins as well. Soler? Damn right, he's probably the only guy I'm sold on as a "must get". But, if I'm looking longterm, adding Rizzo could possibly work out great and give us that much more money to spend elsewhere. I wanted Darvish and Prince, but now if we switch gears and build differently, I'm OK with it and I definitely think it can be done very quickly.

Are we going to the playoffs in 2012, with everything that's off the board already? I don't see it.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3? He'd have Matt Garza and whoever's in the system instead of Edwin Jackson and Bruce Chen. Oh no! Awesome. What makes this smartass comment even better is I'm talking about Wei Yin Chen. Bruce Chen is already signed. As for Jackson, he's not ideal either, but he's 28 and has been an 11.2 WAR pitcher for the past 3 seasons with a low of 3.6. But yeah, your response was great, way to go man! So is he wrong? I don't think you're really getting a net gain from Jackson and Chen v. Garza and Cashner/Samardzija/etc. This isn't about 2012. At all. But yes, the prospects you'd get for Garza, Chen, and Jackson has more value than Garza and Cashner/Shark/etc. Especially since you still have those guys as well around. You'd have Jackson and Chen as middle rotation guys, maybe Shark or Cashner is in the rotation. As what, who knows? But, you've also got a probable top 25 to 50 prospect to plug in somewhere as well, along with a ton of money where, if you want, you have the ability to go get whatever is out there.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3? He'd have Matt Garza and whoever's in the system instead of Edwin Jackson and Bruce Chen. Oh no! Awesome. What makes this smartass comment even better is I'm talking about Wei Yin Chen. Bruce Chen is already signed. As for Jackson, he's not ideal either, but he's 28 and has been an 11.2 WAR pitcher for the past 3 seasons with a low of 3.6. But yeah, your response was great, way to go man!

I've mentioned this scenario a couple of times. Personally, I'd do whatever it took to get Turner and Porcello. If there's a 3rd piece, I don't care whether it's Oliver, Smyly, or Crosby.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3?

By the way, for anyone still wanting to out the absolute best product possible on the field for 2012, what' YOUR plan? I wanted Darvish and Fielder personally, but missing on Darvish, leaves us in a bidding war for Fielder now. Texas is still going to go after him. Toronto as well. Washington could make a splash, so could Seattle. Getting him for 5/125 is NOT happening. With so many AL teams involved, I could see 8/200 actually happening. I'm not opposed to having guys with bad contracts at the end of their deals. Not at all. Including Fielder, even at 8 years. But, in the right situation. And now, I'm not sure it is. My idea was to add 4 stars over 2 offseasons. Going to be tougher to do that now. If someone can show me a truly feasible offseason we can still have, putting a contender out there for 2012 and not hurt us in the future, I'm all ears, because I just don't see it.