Tracer Bullet

Indi-who? I prefer [expletive] on Indiana...but why are people supposed to talk about them when the topic is conference realignment??? We're not, I'm just pissed my school has become such an afterthought. Haha. No one's thought of IU since bobby choked that kid.

Indi-who? I prefer [expletive] on Indiana...but why are people supposed to talk about them when the topic is conference realignment??? Tarver must assume that IU is getting kicked out in favor of KU. It would open them up to move to the MVC and set up the can't miss rivalry with the Sycamores. Stop playing with Snood's emotions. Snood: DA on line 2. He's tired of you playing hard to get.

Yeah, the rumor/expectation is that um and maybe msu will drop ND entirely. I don't much care one way or the other. I like playing those schools usually but opening up those 2-3 September dates would make scheduling other quality teams infinitely easier. The big ten's insistence on playing ND in September has made it harder to play schools that will come to ND, but not when it's cold (SEC teams, primarily). but by joining the big ten and scheduling pn st, os and Michigan in November/Oct, doesn't that open up September up for those supposed wanton SEC team? And miss out on their November showdown with Duke? No dice! Low hanging fruit is your specialty. This is a family board. I wasn't even talking about your Saturday night conquests.

Good bc I wasn't sure what point you were making with the alumni count anyway. Well I didn't know what your point was before that! PS, I think Minny is drunk. It's after 11am here, so I'm sure he is.

Indi-who? I prefer [expletive] on Indiana...but why are people supposed to talk about them when the topic is conference realignment??? Tarver must assume that IU is getting kicked out in favor of KU.

Yeah, the rumor/expectation is that um and maybe msu will drop ND entirely. I don't much care one way or the other. I like playing those schools usually but opening up those 2-3 September dates would make scheduling other quality teams infinitely easier. The big ten's insistence on playing ND in September has made it harder to play schools that will come to ND, but not when it's cold (SEC teams, primarily). but by joining the big ten and scheduling pn st, os and Michigan in November/Oct, doesn't that open up September up for those supposed wanton SEC team? And miss out on their November showdown with Duke? No dice! Low hanging fruit is your specialty.

West of Puget Sound? You live in Japan? Konichiwa! No thanks. I just ate.

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand). painting Big Ten alumns as drop-out failures is hurting my feelings, Richard. Its sooo unkind. It's not that they're all drop out failures. But if you're making an argument based on total alumni base and you're starting with numbers as skewed as ACC v big ten, I assume you're going the extra step of including people that attended those schools but didn't graduate. I'm not quite sure of your point. It's especially strange when you've got a 90% non-alum rate of ND fans. Good bc I wasn't sure what point you were making with the alumni count anyway.

Yeah, the rumor/expectation is that um and maybe msu will drop ND entirely. I don't much care one way or the other. I like playing those schools usually but opening up those 2-3 September dates would make scheduling other quality teams infinitely easier. The big ten's insistence on playing ND in September has made it harder to play schools that will come to ND, but not when it's cold (SEC teams, primarily). but by joining the big ten and scheduling pn st, os and Michigan in November/Oct, doesn't that open up September up for those supposed wanton SEC team? Arguments muddle again. But that's not a benefit that the big ten has over independence or the ACC. I'd rather not play those teams than join the big ten.

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand). painting Big Ten alumns as drop-out failures is hurting my feelings, Richard. Its sooo unkind. It's not that they're all drop out failures. But if you're making an argument based on total alumni base and you're starting with numbers as skewed as ACC v big ten, I assume you're going the extra step of including people that attended those schools but didn't graduate. just say it, you have no respect for me since I live on the west side of puget sound. you've already assumed the Seattle aire-of authority. West of Puget Sound? You live in Japan?

Temple is an NBA mill?

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand). painting Big Ten alumns as drop-out failures is hurting my feelings, Richard. Its sooo unkind. It's not that they're all drop out failures. But if you're making an argument based on total alumni base and you're starting with numbers as skewed as ACC v big ten, I assume you're going the extra step of including people that attended those schools but didn't graduate.

Yeah, the rumor/expectation is that um and maybe msu will drop ND entirely. I don't much care one way or the other. I like playing those schools usually but opening up those 2-3 September dates would make scheduling other quality teams infinitely easier. The big ten's insistence on playing ND in September has made it harder to play schools that will come to ND, but not when it's cold (SEC teams, primarily).

In total numbers? There are also exponentially more big ten alums out there bc the schools are massive (and alumnus also includes former students who don't graduate, which gives big ten schools another several hundred thousand).

Then why aren't you pushing for SEC if your concern is playing cool games in football hotbeds? I think you're greatly overselling the draw of these games, but it's really just a matter of opinion, so we can't go any farther on it. I don't have a clue where you're going with that Michigan tangent, but you're really fudging the numbers if you're trying to include all those ACC teams. UNC? What have they played them once in the past 20 years? Convenient that joining the Big Ten apparently expands ND's reach to South Bend city limits, but joining the ACC puts them in the heart of DC and NYC (where there are 0 ACC teams) You honestly think there are more ND fans in DC than there are in Chicago? How is Notre Dame going to continue this barn-storming schedule when they have to go play Duke, Clemson, Wake, and Virginia? Oh ssr...the Michigan tangent came from your earlier post about this grudge Andy and other ND fans hold. It also explains that UM hasn't been on ND's schedule forever and will be taking another break soon. The other ACC teams have had series with ND recently, some longer or more frequently than others. But I can't remember the last time ND played a big 10 team other than the 4 I mentioned (there was a 2-4 game series with Nebraska when they were in the big 12). So ND has at least as much of a relationship with several ACC schools as they do with big ten schools. My preference is independence so ND can keep going the way they're headed with scheduling. But as between playing 10 games between the states of Iowa and Ohio or playing 4-5 games a year outside that region, I'll take the latter. They can't play all over if they have a 9-game conference schedule, so that's not an option in the ND joins a conference scenario. I think the recruiting argument (playing outside the Midwest helps) is getting confused with the "which conference is preferable" argument. Yes Chicago has a lot of ND fans, but those people are going to the 6-7 home games a year. They aren't worried about getting to see a game at Minnesota or NW. And the ACC reaches NYC and DC better than the bigx, that's the point. The ACC rotating its tourney at MSG seems to corroborate my claim.

There is no reason for the B1G to take Iowa State or Kansas. They add very little to the revenue pie. ND and Mizzou are the only two options on the table that (1) fit the profile of the conference and (2) add value to the league and increase the BTN's footprint. I'm perfectly content with staying at 12 teams, there is no need to expand to expand. Adding Iowa State will create a natural conference rivalry with Iowa. Adding Kansas will increase the league's basketball profile. You have to add someone if you want to get to 16. That's the assumption I started out with. There is already a rivalry with isu. Putting them in the conference isn't suddenly going to spark interest outside the state. They bring nothing to the table.

Basketball superconference? KU, Illinois, Michigan State, Ohio State and Wisconsin would make for a ridiculously entertaining league. Flattery will get you nowhere. I'm a way bigger basketball fan than I am football, but the facts are that football is driving the expansion, and adding a football zero like Kansas would likely cost the Big Ten member schools money. Each school added has to add more in revenue with their addition than each school is already making, and while Kansas has their fake fans throughout the country, they're not a strong enough draw to get any sort of market share for BTN subscriptions outside of the 8,000 people that actually live in Kansas. The only reason Missouri is even viable is because of the population of the state, and what it would mean to get all those subscribers at the conference footprint rate. The Pac-12 is playing with fire IMO if they plan on going all in for Texas and taking whatever dregs have to come with them. That's a lot of money Texas and Oklahoma are going to have to make up in order to keep the current teams equal to what they're receiving now...and if Texas looks for special treatment, you're going to have more headaches to deal with that I'm thinking the California schools won't put up with. I agree on Texas and the Pac 12. I don't see how either side likes that deal. Texas can't think southern cal is going to let them move the conference hq's to Austin and run the show from there. Maybe the Pac 12 thinks there's enough $ to make up for the headaches. Either that or it's a panic move.

I didn't say they had to play in MN to get Floyd. And clausen came to ND to play for Weis and no other reason. But yes, playing in CA every year helps recruiting in CA. Playing outside the Midwest helps recruiting outside the Midwest. ND's recruiting pool is shallow compared to most schools, so they need a broader geographic reach. The ACC, esp with Pitt and Cuse, gives ND a broader geographic reach in areas where there is more football talent. Playing in more places and cool games and venues helps recruiting. Beyond BC, ND has relationships with Miami, FSU, UNC, GA Tech, and have played Maryland and Wake now this year. Again, established relationship with Pitt too (and Syracuse to a lesser extent). Outside um, msu, purdue (which is a stupid game that can't end soon enough), and psu, ND doesn't have games with other bigx schools. That's largely due to um's actions like 100 years ago (and many of those schools following suit), but you can't really think there's some sort of grudge there. UM was the one that kept taking ND off its schedule, not vice versa (and said again recently that they will be taking a break from the series after the current contract). They asked ND to join the big 10 and ND declined and now ND is the one holding some weird grudge? Other than ease of travel for the teams, the bigx isn't a great fit. It's not like most ND fans live in SB either. The majority are probably in NYC and DC...what conference will reach those markets better?

just cant survive with the big boys, can you? We've been trying to keep pace with Minnesota for years. But their top recruits keep staying home. Like Michael Floyd, for example. And now by joining the Big Ten they won't be able to schedule Duke @ Target Field. Bye bye Michael Floyd. What are you talking about?

You understand that to play those 3 games outside the Midwest, you news 6 opponents rotating every 2 years to do it, right? Yes, and in a conference, you can still play 2 games out there in the non-con if you like. You're talking about a minimal difference, and I'm not sure that playing Army or San Diego State every few years really makes a difference in Notre Dame's recruiting, especially relative to the other unique aspects of their program(flagship catholic school, national TV contract, etc). Jesus TT. You're better than a BS strawman. Sorry, I just don't see the location of games having much of an impact on Notre Dame's recruiting. If you want them to have a flexibility to play whoever they want and go to Ireland and rotate marquee opponents in and out and all that, that's stellar. But let's not pretend that they're going to be hampered in their recruiting efforts because they can't play at each of the 4 corners of the country every year. No matter the outcome, Big 10, ACC, Independent or otherwise, Notre Dame is going to have outrageous exposure and coverage. That's exponentially more important than physically playing in San Diego or Boston on an infrequent basis when it comes to recruiting. I think you grossly overestimate ND's exposure. Point to the last positive story ESPN broadcast about ND. Go ahead and search, I'll wait. Let me know when you give up. NBC is great bc the lead-in to ND games is probably fishing, and the halftime show features Peter King talking NFL and they're going to show at least 1 game on versus this year. The pbp is a buffoon and until last year, the color guy was a QB from the biggest rival (and is now the rival's AD). And if they join the bigx, you think ND will keep its private tv contract? (If they join the ACC, they probably will.) The only reason usf was a nationally televised game was bc of that contract. Join the bigx and you probably get ND on nation-wide tv 5-6 times, esp when they play Minnesota, indy, purdue, msu most years, and Missouri or whomever else joins. Joining the bigx keeps the exposure in the Midwest. I also think you underestimate the cool factor of venues to college kids. They have to spend 10 months a year in SB. You probably aren't familiar with the area, but it isn't exactly south beach (twice as much skin on half as many people). If you were a freshman last year, you get to play in Yankee Stadium, Soldier Field, Ireland, FedEx Field,the Rose Bowl (stadium, not the game), Dallas' new stadium, and if you stay a fifth year, the Meadowlands, not to mention at Oklahoma, Michigan, and obviously ND stadium. That's badass to recruits.

Pitt v. ND. First team to get a 3-score lead loses.

just cant survive with the big boys, can you? We've been trying to keep pace with Minnesota for years. But their top recruits keep staying home. Like Michael Floyd, for example.

You understand that to play those 3 games outside the Midwest, you news 6 opponents rotating every 2 years to do it, right? Yes, and in a conference, you can still play 2 games out there in the non-con if you like. You're talking about a minimal difference, and I'm not sure that playing Army or San Diego State every few years really makes a difference in Notre Dame's recruiting, especially relative to the other unique aspects of their program(flagship catholic school, national TV contract, etc). Jesus TT. You're better than a BS strawman.

You understand that to play those 3 games outside the Midwest, you news 6 opponents rotating every 2 years to do it, right?

Haha. That's exactly what I said. I'd prefer recruiting not to be limited to the Midwest means ND is too good for the big 10. ND spurned you years ago and you never got over it. And to the point of scheduling, it's not as simple as who they've played recently. Until Kevin White started [expletive] things up, the schedule was good. Swarbrick has done a great job fixing it, esp in the next 3-4 years. Next year they play at Ireland, soldier field (miami), Oklahoma, Boston, and LA. In 3 years it's Texas, ASU, Boston, Stanford, etc. Maryland in FedEx field isn't the same as just Maryland (or Army in Yankee Stadium, etc). They're playing 2 on the east coast, 1 on the west coast, and 1 in the south. If 8-9 games are constrained to the bigx, then you can't keep usc, Stanford, navy, bc, and rotate in Oklahoma, Texas, miami, byu, Tennessee, Washington, etc. ND isn't going to go to USC with no return trip from the Trojans, but they can't fit 2 CA teams on the schedule to guarantee a west coast game every year if they're in the bigx. But they join the bigx and they fight for the limited Midwest talent without the ability to play in front of and pick off a couple CA kids, a couple Texas kids, and a few NY/NJ kids. Big 10 schools are huge and have terrible grad rates, esp for non-white players. Geography (getting out of the Midwest), academics, and school size all favor the ACC.