BigbadB

Nothing beats paying someone nearly 20m to play just about anywhere else, which is what the Cubs did last year. No thanks on anything related to Sammy Sosa. He's done.

I don't know if anyone is putting into perspective how ugly it could get if the Sox win the World Series. It has never happened before in our lifetime. Therefore, we can't measure it. But, we could soon be finding out. If they would simply rejoice in their own treasure's rather than using winning as an excuse to undress Cub fans, it might not be so bad. If they supported their team through thick and thin, it might not be so bad. The White Sox were in 1st place all year long and the Cubs outdrew the White Sox by 10,000 fans a game, and we sucked.

Boo hoo! Those big bad bullies will make fun of me! It's a good thing you have met and been harassed by so many Sox fans out in State College, PA. LOL, I was thinking the same thing.

I don't see Nomar accepting a role like that. I'm sure HE feels he's still one of the elite shortstops in the game and could easily land an everyday job with several teams. To make an offer like that would be an insult to him and he'd be sure to walk. I think you'd need to giftwrap it a little better than that. Make that offer with loaded incentives and don't bring up how he will be used. Let him assume he'll be the everyday shortstop as he has always been known to be. Personally, if he came back with a low base salary loaded with incentives, I'd just stick him at SS and see if he can stay healthy and meet those incentives. If he does, the Cubs should be doing pretty good. (provided they filled the other holes on this team this offseason).

Nice. Sox fans sit at home all baseball season (17th in attendance this year) and turn around and brag about how the Cubs are sitting at home now. Real nice. Instead of "hurray for Konerko" or "Way to go Buerhle", they talk about the Cubs. [-( 17th in attendance in a year they led their division ALL season long. If that isn't enough to boost attendance, what is? The Cubs averaged 10,000 more people per game in a year they sucked. The Cell has a bigger capacity than Wrigley. The White Sox ranked dead last in attendance for playoff teams during the regular season. Way to show your support! 5 words: Step back into the closet!

Yeah, I've talked to many SD fans here about the possibility of the Cubs making a big offer for Giles, and they all make the same claim....They wouldn't miss him. What they seem to think in San Diego is that it is just some fluke that Giles, Klesko and Nevin lost power moving to Petco. It's not a fluke. Whatever power hitter they get is going to show a decrease in power, and it's not because of steroids. Well, if Giles is dumb enough to take such a huge paycut to stay and play in a park that will hurt his HOF chances, meanwhile playing for an owner that cares more about what's going on around the park (shopping centers, condos, hotels, etc...) than what is going on inside the park (besides the sold out games), so be it. Cliff Floyd, here we come. Ok, he's good, but once and foer all, he's no where near an HOFer. I know that most of us wanted him, but guys, lets be serious here: he's a very nice player who would have been a very good fit in our OF. That said, it ain't over till its over. And I have suspected all along that JH wasn't counting on getting him. I mean, if we al knew it would take more than the usual dollars to pry him away from the Coast, then it stands to reason that getting him at all was, at best, not likely. How about reading the whole thread before you pick a comment to tear apart? I already retracted my comment with the fact he started too late, and either played for bad teams or played in bad hitters parks.

Well, Lofton's about to fall off a cliff production-wise, so I wouldn't go after him under any circumstance. There's way too much risk for not a ton of reward, especially considering Dusty. Of course that doesn't mean we should go after Pierre either. He didn't fall off a cliff last year production wise. He can be platooned again this year, and if Patterson figures out what his problem is, then Lofton becomes a nice bench option. They could sign Lofton for about the same amount they paid Neifi.

I like Mench. But, I like Giles more. After Giles, and believing that we don't have what it takes to get Abreu or Ramirez, I'd put Mench pretty high on the list. We have what Texas would want in return.

If Walker and Murton return, there really isn't any reason to go after Pierre, period. I just like the idea of getting Lofton, because it gives you a third lead off candidate. All the money you have to spend can go on RF and SS, if they were to elect to go after Furcal instead of Nomar, which then gives them a 4th top of the order hitter option. With Patterson, Hairston, Lofton (if signed) and Pie, CF is covered. SS, 2b and RF are what needs the most attention.

If the White Sox win the World Series, I will feel very sorry for my Cub fan friends that live in Chicago. It will be a horrible place to be for quite a long time. Those of you who are Cub fans cheering for the Sox to do well. Shame on you! When you see the wrath that will be Sox fans spewing forth venom towards Cub fans, maybe you will soon understand. In the meantime, us mods are gearing up for a very busy troll season.

If it's true he's staying in SD, it may be just as well. Giles could have signed with STL before even considering the Cubs. With Sanders ($4M) and Walker ($6M) both free agents, and Roger Cedeno off the books ($1.5M), STL could have easily paid Giles $10-12M per year. That type of dough and the chance to win year-in/year-out is hard to pass up. Let's see if we get confirmation reports in the next 12 hours about re-signing with SD. That's about the most positive spin to put on it. Thankfully's he not going to St. Louis. But, you all know that Giles would look even worse in Cardinal red than he does in that horrible sandy blonde Padres uniform, or whatever you call it. Fact!

Maybe Giles knew Blanco would refuse to give up his number, and simply decided it wasn't worth the hassle....

Probably not. He got too late of a start. His numbers had to have suffered in Pittsburgh playing on all those bad teams. His numbers will suffer again playing in San Diego for another 3 seasons at least. Now, if he played his entire career in Wrigley, he'd be in the hall of fame already. :wink: being a big part of a WS team on the northside would win some points. i would think he would be well below the votes larry walker would get, for example. a ring this year would have helped him, too. Have you ever looked up his numbers playing at Wrigley Field? He was a human wrecking ball. That was an added feature for wanting him to come to Chicago. Just for fun..... In 32 games at Wrigley Field, Giles has 10 HR's, 7 doubles, 1 triple, 32 runs scored, 31 RBI's, 3 stolen bases and 19 walks. Over the course of a full season, those numbers project to 50 HR's, 35 doubles, 160 runs scored, 155 RBI's, 15 SB's and 96 walks. Of course, he'd only play half of his games at Wrigley, so the numbers are certainly skewed..... :D

Probably not. He got too late of a start. His numbers had to have suffered in Pittsburgh playing on all those bad teams. His numbers will suffer again playing in San Diego for another 3 seasons at least. Now, if he played his entire career in Wrigley, he'd be in the hall of fame already. :wink: being a big part of a WS team on the northside would win some points. i would think he would be well below the votes larry walker would get, for example. a ring this year would have helped him, too. Have you ever looked up his numbers playing at Wrigley Field? He was a human wrecking ball. That was an added feature for wanting him to come to Chicago.

Actually, no. I live about 50 miles from Indianapolis, which in three years very well may have the best NBA and the best NFL facilities in the nation. Not to mention two of the best teams in each respective league. Now, with all the baseball teams in neighboring states, it may be difficult for Indy to support a team -- I'd question whether it could. However, even if it could, I have no desire for an MLB team in Indy. I also have no doubt we'll see 48 then 64 then 1,280 teams. It's all about the money. That doesn't make it right. Would you consider Portland close to San Fran or Seattle? What's the closest market to Charlotte? Las Vegas is a minimum 3 hour drive to the closest market that currently has a team. I could go on. Just because Indy may not be able to support it doesn't mean no one else could.

Probably not. He got too late of a start. His numbers had to have suffered in Pittsburgh playing on all those bad teams. His numbers will suffer again playing in San Diego for another 3 seasons at least. Now, if he played his entire career in Wrigley, he'd be in the hall of fame already. :wink:

You're totally missing the point of his post... because there is no point, you can't compare a part time player to a guy that has put up good numbers on a consistent basis. But CPatt isn't comparing a part-time player to a player that has put up good numbers consistently (because Juan Pierre hasn't put up good numbers consistently). .355 career OBP doesn't meet your criteria of good numbers? #-o .355 is good. However, last year it was .326. The Cubs will probably go after a guy after a down season. They seem to like making deals for guys when their value is at its lowest.

Yeah, I've talked to many SD fans here about the possibility of the Cubs making a big offer for Giles, and they all make the same claim....They wouldn't miss him. What they seem to think in San Diego is that it is just some fluke that Giles, Klesko and Nevin lost power moving to Petco. It's not a fluke. Whatever power hitter they get is going to show a decrease in power, and it's not because of steroids. Well, if Giles is dumb enough to take such a huge paycut to stay and play in a park that will hurt his HOF chances, meanwhile playing for an owner that cares more about what's going on around the park (shopping centers, condos, hotels, etc...) than what is going on inside the park (besides the sold out games), so be it. Cliff Floyd, here we come.

That's cool, again if that's the expectations then I think over paying for Giles makes a lot of sense. Just trying the help frame the debate. If the Cubs brought back Walker and Nomar, then went with Giles and Lofton, and then played them everyday like this: Lofton/Hairston Walker Giles Lee Aramis Nomar Murton Barrett This offense along with healthy pitching could beat St. Louis in the standings next year. It wasn't power that Chicago was lacking, but rather the ability to get runners on base. Every guy in that line up can put up .350+ OBP. The problem will be whether or not Cub management can see that, or will want to do that.

I should also add that Dempster doesn't necessarily have to be as good as he was last year. The real question should have been, will Dempster be as good as Hawkins and Dempster were last year? Because Hawkins was HORRIBLE.

Not to sound like a troll but, the Cubs should only do that deal if they believe they are one player away from seriously contending for the world series. That's stupid. We have the money to spend, we need to improve our outfield, and Giles does that. We cant dick around and make little piddling improvements until we get close enough to a WS that one player will put us over the hump. We need big changes, now. I guess I wouldn't be that keen on overpaying for a player who is likely to decline unless I thought my team would seriously contend for the WS the next year. There is some wisdom in that, except for a few things: 1, if things go right this offseason, we very well might be contending next year, as has already been said. 2, Giles' discipline is not likely to decline. His power numbers and average might, but he'll probably always be posting a pretty decent OBP, and hitting for better than average power, especially in Wrigley. Plus, he seems to be in very good shape, so I think that decline that people are anticipating won't be as steep as you think. 3, Given the above point, he will always have some value - if not to us, then to somebody else who can take on that kind of contract (Yankees, Red Sox, etc.). Frist off, good post. 1. If this is the belief then by all mean by all mean overpay, I was just trying to help frame debate. I guess I'm of the opinion the Cubs might contend but I doubt it. Again, not to sounds like a troll\CardsHomer but this is a team that finished 10 games out of the WC and 4th place in the central. BTW, I don't want to hijack the thread with this part of my post. 2. That is true, I would just worry about injury and what not. Guys in their mid 30's and up tend to break down more and have sharper declines. Again, its worth it if you believe this team will be a contender next year. 3. I have a feeling those teams are going to better job of not taking on overpaid old guys in the future. That said is Giles has a slow decline then yes, they could prolly get rid of him. As a said before guys in their mid to late 30's tend to have (but not always) nastier declines. I thought the Maddux signing in 04 was a good one even tho he was old and I knew they were overpaying because going in to the season they had a great shot for the WS. I'm not so sure, I would feel the same for the Cubs going in to 06. The Cubs have a tough offseason, lots of $ and a lousy FA class. It should be interesting. Not to poke holes in your debate, but you and I both know the Cubs would have been a much better team if Walker, Aramis, Prior, Wood and Nomar. Being healthy would have made the Cubs a threat to at least take the wild card. Sure if the Cubs are completely heathly things would have been better. Can you expect that next year? Can you expect DLee to be the best hitter in baseball again? How about Demp being a good closer? Now you're arguing with the wrong guy. I always felt when Dempster came to Chicago that he would be an awesome closer. Back to Derrek Lee. He wouldn't need to be the best hitter in baseball if everyone was healthy. With Nomar and Aramis picking up a lot of the lost production power wise and with Hairston and Walker hitting at the top of the order over Patterson and Perez, Lee could have been the typical Derrek Lee and they would have scored a bunch of runs. I think they can expect most of these guys to be healthy next year. They've had plenty of extra time to recover at the end of this season and this offseason. With that extra time, I would expect management to be working with these guys on a regular workout regimen, so that they are in better shape coming into Spring Training.

Precisely the reasons why I am all for going after Lofton. Giles, Lofton, Nomar, bullpen help, bench help, starting pitching. In my mind, those are the targets in order of importance this off season. To be fair, trading for Pierre does not block Pie. Pierre is a FA after 2006, so in all likelihood it keeps Pie in the minors in 2006 where he belongs (IMO) Which makes trading a quality left handed pitching prospect (remember Dontrelle Willis and Andy Sisco) for a 1 year rental a bad idea. Especially when Kenny Lofton comes cheaper and won't cost any prospects. Pie shouldn't be blocked, period. A shift to right or left wouldn't be a good idea, because he'll likely be +production for a CF, but minus production as a corner outfielder. CF'ers are hard to come by. You just don't move a blue chip prospect CFer to a corner if you don't have to.

Not to sound like a troll but, the Cubs should only do that deal if they believe they are one player away from seriously contending for the world series. That's stupid. We have the money to spend, we need to improve our outfield, and Giles does that. We cant dick around and make little piddling improvements until we get close enough to a WS that one player will put us over the hump. We need big changes, now. I guess I wouldn't be that keen on overpaying for a player who is likely to decline unless I thought my team would seriously contend for the WS the next year. There is some wisdom in that, except for a few things: 1, if things go right this offseason, we very well might be contending next year, as has already been said. 2, Giles' discipline is not likely to decline. His power numbers and average might, but he'll probably always be posting a pretty decent OBP, and hitting for better than average power, especially in Wrigley. Plus, he seems to be in very good shape, so I think that decline that people are anticipating won't be as steep as you think. 3, Given the above point, he will always have some value - if not to us, then to somebody else who can take on that kind of contract (Yankees, Red Sox, etc.). Frist off, good post. 1. If this is the belief then by all mean by all mean overpay, I was just trying to help frame debate. I guess I'm of the opinion the Cubs might contend but I doubt it. Again, not to sounds like a troll\CardsHomer but this is a team that finished 10 games out of the WC and 4th place in the central. BTW, I don't want to hijack the thread with this part of my post. 2. That is true, I would just worry about injury and what not. Guys in their mid 30's and up tend to break down more and have sharper declines. Again, its worth it if you believe this team will be a contender next year. 3. I have a feeling those teams are going to better job of not taking on overpaid old guys in the future. That said is Giles has a slow decline then yes, they could prolly get rid of him. As a said before guys in their mid to late 30's tend to have (but not always) nastier declines. I thought the Maddux signing in 04 was a good one even tho he was old and I knew they were overpaying because going in to the season they had a great shot for the WS. I'm not so sure, I would feel the same for the Cubs going in to 06. The Cubs have a tough offseason, lots of $ and a lousy FA class. It should be interesting. Not to poke holes in your debate, but you and I both know the Cubs would have been a much better team if Walker, Aramis, Prior, Wood and Nomar. Being healthy would have made the Cubs a threat to at least take the wild card.

Ahh. I see. If you lived in one of those markets that didn't have a baseball team, and the city had the market to support it, wouldn't you like to see a team there? I could see there being 48 teams someday. Maybe even 64 in another 100 years.

Pierre is about to become Damon-like expensive and he won't be worth the cost. He would also block Pie. Lofton is a short term stop gap who can be platooned with Hairston. Equal OBP for a much lower cost, which in turn allows you to spend bigger on RF, SP and SS if that is your desire.