BigbadB

I'm not so certain that Hill, Pie or Murton would have to be included in a trade to get some of the guys they are shopping for. If Mench costed anymore than Sergio Mitre, I wouldn't do it. I probably wouldn't do it anyway, since he doesn't really fit what we need. A lefty power bat to tuck in between Lee and Ramirez. I haven't a clue what Florida wants for Pierre, but if Patterson and Novoa gets it done, I'd be fine with it. It sounds as if we could get Bradley for Cliff Bartosh, or a bag of balls if they prefer. Dunn or Abreu would take something special. Signing Giles would not.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/1105/12furcal.html So the Yankees probably don't have any interest. The Mets only have interest if he's willing to move to 2b. The Braves are starting to focus their interest elsewhere? What other teams would be interested? Me thinks this is why the agent came out and said Furcal was worth 5/50 and that there were at least 5 teams willing to pay that much. He also said there were 5 teams willing to pay that much? :shock: Is 5 really a dramatic overexaggeration of zero?

I wanted him gone as much as the next guy. He's made some poor decisions over the years, but he will always be remembered as one of the greatest Cubs ever. I hope he finds a team that will give him a shot a 600 HR's, and in turn he can help that team be competitive. So, no, I don't find it funny.

Let's compare the Reds and Cubs teams of 2005. We know the Reds pitching was HORRIBLE. And that horrible pitching is what made them a less than mediocre team. What the Reds quietly did last year offensively was a thing of beauty. If the Reds could figure out how to combine decent pitching with their philosophy on hitting, they would be a scary team to compete against. The Cubs batted .270 AVG as a team last year (2nd in NL) The Reds batted .261 AVG as a team last year (7th in NL) The Cubs SLG was .440 (2nd) The Reds SLG was .446 (1st) The Cubs scored 703 runs (9th) The Reds scored 820 runs (1st) That's nearly 1 run per game more than the Cubs. The Cubs had 1506 hits (1st :shock: ) The Reds had 1453 hits (6th) The Cubs had 540 XBH's The Reds had 572 XBH's The Cubs stole 65 bases The Reds stole 72 bases The Cubs walked 419 times. (dead last in NL) The Reds walked 611 times. (2nd) Ignoring all the injuries last year, the Cubs were one of the better teams offensively in the NL if you don't look at walks and runs scored. If Nomar, Ramirez and Walker were healthy all year and if Baker just stuck Murton out there and let him play everyday, it's quite possible the Cubs would have been #1 offensively in many of the offensive categories. However, if you look closely at their poor walk rate, it most resembles their poor run production. Let's look a little closer at the OBP's of the players on each team for all players with at least 100 at bats: Reds: .387/.371/.371/.369/.362/.356/.355/.352/.338/.333/.324/.319/.308/.304 Cubs: .418/.386/.358/.355/.345/.336/.322/.320/.301/.298/.289/.287/.274/.254 The .386 is Murton (140 AB's). The .358 was Ramirez (injured). The .355 is Walker (injured). The .345 was Barrett (part timer). The Reds had NO players with a less than .300 OBP. Of the Reds players that had more than 200 AB's, only two players had an OBP lower than .324. The Cubs had 5 players with a less than .300 OBP. Of the Cubs players that had more than 200 AB's, 5 had an OBP lower than .324. The Reds are a small market club, unable to afford to go out and land premium players at each position. The Cubs are a big market club that has all the resources they need. There is absolutely no excuse to trade for, sign or promote any player that cannot provide an OBP of at least .320 (except maybe back up catcher). The starting line up should feature players with a minimum OBP of .340. The starting line up should fall somewhere between .340 and .360 with the Cubs resources. It is my belief that if the Cubs put 8 players on the field with a .350+ OBP day in and day out, they would be right at the top in runs scored, which far and away is the most important stat for an offense. If the aggresive plate approach hasn't been proved fruitless over these past 3 seasons under Dusty, I really don't know what to think. We had 50 more hits than Cincinnati, yet they outscored the Cubs by more than 100 runs. The nearly 200 more walks Cincinnati had "might" have a little something to do with that. Ya think? That's why I'm all about OBP! In case you were wondering. :D

I like everything EXCEPT giving up Pie. You're going to go for the short term with Lofton, and not find a way to hold onto a guy who just might be a future All Star? We know that the Phillies are eager to move him, don't give them your best prospect. Try to wow them with a substitute of good prospects we might lose through Rule 5 anyway... I HATE giving up Murton, because it's classic Cubs to give up a guy with his potential, but if it gets Dunn, I can't complain. I'd try to swap someone for him though in that deal, if possible. Cincy doesn't really need outfielders. Any chance of Cincy taking Walker instead? He's cheap, cheap I say... Freel and Lopez are cheaper. :wink:

How does Dunn only make 5m in 2006? That's what he made last year.

I would imagine that Hendry sees Lugo as a #2 hitter, and his want and most significant need is a lead off hitter. But, if he covets Pierre, where would Furcal hit? Wouldn't that be the same spot as Lugo? Personally, if I'm Hendry and I see 5/50 being floated across my desk, I tell Furcal's agent that my SS prospect hit .374 in AAA last year and .300 in the bigs and he can keep his client. We'll focus our energy on Giles. It wouldn't have to be a bluff either. You have Walker to play 2nd, Cedeno to play SS, and Neifi to back them up. Trade for Pierre, sign Giles and voila, Furcal can resign with Atlanta for dirt cheap. Attempt to get Lugo from Tampa or something comparable elsewhere, and spend other energy on pitching. Just because it's slim pickings this offseason doesn't mean you given in to ridiculous demands. By keeping SS open, maybe a historic deal that involves A-Rod is still possible.

And I think I can deal with 4/32. However, this past year was his contract year and he performed much better than previous years. That red flag alone should knock his price tag down about 18m. When you reward a guy a 50m contract for what they did for 1 season, you are asking for a ton of trouble. I'd rather overpay Tampa in prospects for Lugo than overpay in years and cash for Furcal. They are practically the same player.

I thought I heard that they either traded for or are contemplating bringing back their old 3b from Toronto. Koskie

Did Furcal's agent just ruin Furcal's offseason? Assuming the Yankees are only "playing the game" to drive up the price on Furcal (I'm assuming this is the only reason since there will be all kinds of CF's on the market this offseason).... And Atlanta can't afford anything more than about 6m a year.... And the Mets go a different route.... And the Cubs trade for Lugo..... Would the 5/50 demands scare off other teams from any interest whatsoever? Is this really a good negotiating ploy? Is this the way it's going to be from now on? I know it's probably a lot more work for an agent to work 2-5 teams to drive the price up, but doesn't this negotiating ploy seem like a more logical approach? It saves the player the embarrassment of missing his 50m mark by A LOT. It keeps teams that "think" they have a shot at him interested. It doesn't give every team in baseball the appearance that Furcal is all about himself instead of being a team player. Will this negotiating ploy turn people on or off? Is it just an agent being about as lazy as possible to earn his client top dollar? If Furcal gets anything close to what Aramis gets, I won't be too pleased.

he can't play defense or steal bases. :roll: What's with the eyeroll? You're going to sit there and tell me that Furcal is worth 4x what Walker makes? Not twice the player or 3 times the player, but 4x the player. Furcal had 27 errors in 2002, 31 in 2003 and 24 in 2004. One season at 15 (ahem, contract season), and all of a sudden he's a defensive wiz. I love it. Furcal averaged 20 something steals until 2004 (his contract year). Then he magically steals nearly twice as many. You know for a fact he won't go right back to his lazy 20 something steals and 20 something errors once he signs his name on that big fat contract? Edgar Renteria and Orlando Cabrera sure are earning their money these days, aren't they? My apologies if I misunderstood your eyeroll post.

I said from day 1 that it would be easier to bring back the guy who is already on your roster. Nomar's ship has already sailed. The day they shooshed Nomar aside to begin courting Furcal was the day they lost Nomar and any kind of incentive laced, low base contract. Kind of makes you respect Todd Walker's 2.5m "I'll sit on the bench, I just want to be on the Cubs and help in anyway I can" attitude, eh? Amazing that Furcal is worth 4x what Walker makes, especially when you just break down the production.

This might be a good place to let people know that Andy Pratt is on the market. You'll have to wow me. I won't just give him away. Hermida, Kendrick, Cain and Wood are enticing, but I have ANDY PRATT! Line forms at the rear! :D

Speed guy? Here's a list of major leaguers who had a lower SLG than Pie had last year: Chad Tracy Richie Sexson Adam Dunn Chase Utley Jason Giambi Todd Helton Paul Konerko Jim Edmonds Lance Berkman David Wright Troy Glaus Miguel Tejada Who was the AL rookie of the year? Robinson Cano? Pie's SLG was 100 points better. Pie is a speed guy, but he's developing power to go with it. Maybe that power doesn't look all that impressive to you, but note that he had a total of 240 at bats last year. That's approximately 1/3 of a season. Break it down for a whole year and you have over 50 doubles, 15 triples and over 30 HR's. He probably would not have kept up that pace over a full season, but who wouldn't want a speed guy with 40 doubles, 12 triples and 20 HR's? But, he's only 20 and he was only in AA. As he continues filling out, what might he become? How does his SLG compare with other AA players in the Southern League? Pie didn't qualify with 240 at bats, but Chris Young ended up being the best in the division in SLG with a .545. He had 26 HR's, 3 Triples and 41 doubles. Chris Young is 22. Pie still has some work to do, but he is definitely a top prospect.

It's not a fair question. You're listing a 2nd option at SS with a 1st option in RF, then a 1st option at SS with a 10th option in RF. To make it an even statement, I go with Furcal and Floyd. [edit - smelling pistakes] No, it is a fair question. Lugo/Giles will probably cost about the same amount as Furcal/Encarnacion. Furcal/Floyd would cost more.

Where's Vlady?

No Bonds, huh?

But he's not a finished product!!!!!!!!! I don't understand your comment. The original poster asked how good he is. I gave him that information. I know he's not a finished product as I previously stated. However, to trade him with what he has done so far, it would take something special. Why? Because of what he has accomplished at the ripe young age of 20.

A guy like Dunn will cost you a "best" prospect. He was a "best" prospect himself when he came up to the major leagues and he hasn't disappointed.

I'll take the first option everyday and twice on Sundays. What if Lugo cost the Cubs Pie? I suppose that would depend on how well Tampa thinks Pie can pitch. Why on Earth would Tampa want Pie when they already have Baldelli, Gomes, Crawford, Huff, Gathright, Young and likely more guys who can play the outfield? Tampa would want pitching, and that is something we can certainly offer.

He's 20. He's in AA hitting over .300 AVG/.349 OBP/.554 SLG He definitely needs to work on reading pitchers and improve his K/BB rates, but let me repeat. He's 20.

Just to add more fun stuff, the Mets are talking to Hoffman. If they can't get Wagner, they'll work hard to land Hoffman. That'll be Giles, Ramon Hernandez and Hoffman bolting out of San Diego. If that isn't enough, David Wells wants to go back to San Diego. San Diego lowballed him last year, so he left for Boston. I believe Boston gave Wells 1m more than San Diego would offer. Wells would have taken 3.5m to stay in San Diego after giving them a home town discount in '04 of 1.5m. The Padres would not give him anymore than 2.5m. I don't know about anyone else, but 3.5m is not bad for a guy who was basically your 2nd best starter in 2004. Instead, they gave Woody Williams more money than they were offering Wells to replace Wells. Boston wants Akinori Otsuka for Wells. Just to add injury to insult, Woody Williams WAS a Padre before he went to St. Louis. The Padres traded Woody to St. Louis for Ray Lankford. Lankford proceeded to play less than a season with the Padres (and he was horrible), and the Cardinals picked him back up the next year. If Wells does go back to San Diego, it will cost them a player AND they will probably have to pick up all of Wells contract, which is more than what they originally offered to him last year. #-o More fun stuff from this not so smart organization.....Boston and San Diego last worked a deal together just last year. Dave Roberts was with the LA Dodgers, and Boston gave up a crap (never heard of) minor leaguer for Roberts. Boston turned around and traded Roberts to San Diego for a versatile utility infielder (Ramon Vazquez), a versatile 4th outfielder (Jay Payton), a minor league pitcher (probably no more than the other crap minor leaguer Boston gave up with the deal with the Dodgers) and about 2.5m in cash. FOR JUST DAVE ROBERTS! :shock: Good stuff!

I think it's pretty safe to say that no one would be interested in Guzman at this point. Which is fine by me. Healthy, he's a top notch starting prospect. Injured, he's worthless. I don't see any team risking a huge trade for a guy who may never prove healthy.

My point is that a guy who can consistently hit over .300 usually tends to do so well into their late 30's.

If you could have Lugo and Brian Giles or Furcal and Encarnacion, which would you rather have?