BigbadB

I feel your coming down hard on me here but I will drop if because truely, I don't care. Did you miss this last sentence in my post? "And this wouldn't be directed only at you. We all should attempt to be a little more respectful of opposing views."

I have to agree with the sentiment of the responses, though I'm sure we can come up with a more diplomatic word than "[expletive]". In fact, using that word is very offensive to many of the members of this community and I would ask that the originator change it to something else.

In this instance, a walk is much greater than a routine grounder to SS. One less out, bases still loaded, 1 more run on the score board and someone else with an opportunity to keep the inning alive.

I'm dropping the subject myself since I'm no expert on who attends games at Wrigley Field. I do want to point out that your "This is a stupid angle...." comment was disrespectful of another posters opinion, which is probably what I should have just stuck with rather than entering a debate that I'm not so educated on. I found your comment a bit offensive. Debate it all you wish, but please try to be a bit more respectful of an opposing view. And this wouldn't be directed only at you. We all should attempt to be a little more respectful of opposing views.

I only entered this argument because I really didn't appreciate your tone towards another NSBB poster. I personally don't care who sits in the seats. One poster has the view that more visiting team fans are getting tickets to games. Another one has the view that more cell phone talkin' fans are getting into games. Your opinion is that there is nothing different. What is different is the product on the field this year sucks. Plain and simple. When a team sucks as bad as this team currently does, it's hard to run around wearing the teams colors with pride. I just spent a week during the all star break in St. Louis and there is no escaping the pride they are currently showing for their team. I wasn't actually "in" St. Louis, but rather 45 minutes west in O'Fallon. The people wearing Cardinal jerseys is ridiculous down there. But, I can see why it's happening. They have a good team and they are competitive every year. Imagine if you will a run that the Cubs make where they run off 4 or 5 pennants in a row. How chaotic would Chicago be? How hard would it be to get tickets then? Whether one has a differing opinion of what kind of fan is stepping through the turnstyles at Wrigley is not worth arguing.

I don't think anyone is arguing that this doesn't happen at other parks. It does happen in every park. It's just happening more in Wrigley these days due to the poor product on the field. I honestly can't believe that you can tell the difference in a hard core fan and a casual fan. A casual fan has their Wood/Prior jersey that they break out of the closet once or twice a year just like the hard core fan does. I'm not here to label the fans, and I am 2300 miles away from Wrigley. I'm not one that can argue either way, but I didn't see anything wrong with what Impaler said here. And I can find it very reasonable to believe that many hard core fans have sold their tickets to casual fans due to the lack of anything worth watching on the field. We have many hard core fans on this message board, and many of them have stated that they aren't going to games. Who is buying up those seats? Most, if not all, are resold tickets since the season was basically a sell out before the season ever started.

I happen to agree with impaler. There are more casual fans out there than hard core fans. The casual fan isn't just there for the Cubs. He (she) is there to enjoy the atmosphere, the view, baseball, the crowd, etc.... There are probably more of those this year than ever before, as I believe many of the hard core fans are staying home. Corporate box seats are becoming more and more popular each and every year. This is an avenue that ballparks have catered to of late. Most of your corporate seats will be filled with the cell phone talking, spun around in their seats and not aware that a game is going on fan.

While it would be grand to see an empty stadium game after game, it's just not going to happen. If I bought season tickets, I certainly wouldn't just eat them if I decided to boycott games. I doubt any season ticket holder is going to just toss their tickets in the toilet. Selling those seats to anyone and everyone that will buy them is a way to recover some of the lost money while not giving up your good seats. If you just put season ticket holders in the seats on a given day, the place would look quite full, so there's likely a lot of them moving their tickets rather than painfully sitting in agony day after day. Many fans got shut out on ticket sales day (or was it ticket hour?). There are a lot of people who want to get to Wrigley at least once a year that would buy tickets regardless of price. If you are waiting for the time people quit going, you'll be waiting a long time.

I agree with most of this. He looks really frustrated out there. I agree as well. Wouldn't it be nice, if just once one of our rookie hitters improved as they got more playing time, rather than regress. It's very hard not to point fingers at the coaching staff when the youngsters come up and look more lost than when they first arrived. Isn't it the coaching staff's job to do something to remove that lost look on a rookies face?

The Walker thing was poorly handled by just about everyone involved. The same can be said about Sosa, Patterson, Farnsworth, Bellhorn, Wood pitching in relief, etc... I don't want to harp on past history. We know why Dusty wants Maddux around. He thinks Maddux can be part of some resurgence that will make Dusty's season look a lot less bad than it currently is. This is important to Dusty for future revenue and contract considerations. I don't have a problem that Dusty is saying these things. I have a problem with the fact Dusty is still here to say these things. But, then again, I also have a problem with the fact the guys with the power to remove Dusty are also still here. Hendry seems to be spending a considerable amount of time evaluating Dusty's status as manager. Which is a crying shame, since this is the time Hendry should be evaluating trade opportunities to improve the team in the future. No one is calling on the Cubs. Is Hendry not answering phones? Teams are working trades as we speak, and Pierre is still leading off, team scapegoat Todd Walker is still splitting time with others at 2nd base, Williamson is still in the bullpen, Nevin is still patrolling the outfield, etc.... Nevin's value is dropping by the day. He'll be a Type C free agent, along with Scott Williamson at season's end. Maddux is potentially the only Type A free agent leaving this team at season's end, and there's no guarantee he'll play again. And the Cubs definitely won't offer arby. Hendry should have removed Baker prior to this trading period to remove anything from interfering with improving this team beyond this season. If any of the players listed above are still here as of August 1st, Hendry will have failed once again in his most important duty as GM. That is unacceptable. Wow, I got all that from a Dusty quote.

I think you're asking this question to the wrong group. There probably aren't a lot of Cub fans who believe Santo does not belong in the HOF, excluding everything he has done since he retired.

Are K's registering for pitchers? It doesn't appear as though they are. Randy Johnson doesn't have very many points for a guy who struck out 11 today. Jeremy Bonderman has this line so far today: 1 inning, 3 K's. He has 3 points. That doesn't add up.

I've very upset with Chris Speier. To give Hendry an easy out such as this infuriates me.

He didn't say he wanted to be traded to a contender. He assumes that if he is traded, it will most likely be to a contender. Who else trades for a pitcher in the last year of his contract at the trade deadline? He was just giving the typical "I love it here and I hope to be here all year" company line.

I've never believed the argument that batting order has very little effect on run production. How many more RBI would Derrek Lee have had last year with 2 .400 OBP guys hitting 1st and 2nd in the order? How many more RBI would Neifi Perez have had? How many more RBI would Burnitz have had? Good OBP gets wasted when it is followed by poor AVG/SLG. There is a particular reason that it makes sense to have good OBP guys hitting first in the game. There is also a particular reason that it makes sense to have your biggest boppers hitting directly behind those guys. And just less than 1 run is a significant increase offensively. Just less than a run a game would propel this Cub team from 30th in the league to 10-12th in run production. That is very significant.

I'm the killer BBB. :D

For the record, I was ragging on Jacque Jones before he ever stepped into a batter's box with a Cub uniform on. If it was a 1 year deal, I wouldn't have complained. He's playing better than I expected at this point, and I will give him credit for that. However, this organization's lack of ability to fill holes these last few years is what makes the Jones signing worse than it should have been. If Jones and Murton were a platoon tandem in LF all year and there was a stud RF, I doubt Jones would get ridden as much as he has. You're right with Grieve. For a pinch hitter, he doesn't make enough contact. The Kelton, Choi and Cruz lovefests, for the most part, are fans of a team that want nothing more than to see this teams minor league system blossom. Heck, who doesn't want that. What I don't understand is why you aren't more interested in having discussions like this one about this team. To me, you seem more interested in flaming posters by tossing out Choi and Grieve every chance you get. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean we all have the same opinions. That's what these message boards are. A place to form and announce those opinions. Agree or disagree. Your Todd Walker thread wasn't started as a debate about whether Walker should be DFA'd. It was started to incite posters. How do I know this? Because you tossed out names like Grieve and Choi in the first post of that thread, as if they have ANYTHING to do with Todd Walker. I can take Todd Walker or leave him. I've hollered loud that he needs to shut his cake hole and just play ball. At the same time, I think he's the best option we have at 2nd base. I also think that part of his lack of focus is partially to the way he's treated by this organization. Call it a fault, but I can't really blame him. And I most certainly can't put any more blame on this sorry excuse for a team any more than anyone else that has anything to do with this team. The problems start with upper management and stop with the players.

I'm not bold enough to predict that he'll improve on his numbers. I do know that we're close to the 3/5 point of the season, and he's been horrible at getting on base. I want someone who is consistent all year at setting up the big production guys. He's a great guy, but he needs to be a great guy somewhere else. When he was a .360+ OBP guy, he had value. He isn't providing that value now. If I thought he could be a .360+ OBP guy again, I might have a change of heart. But, there is nothing in his approach at the plate that would lead me to believe he can be that guy again.

Juan Pierre is on pace to play every game this year and score 80 runs. That is absolutely unacceptable from a lead off hitter. 80 runs from the lead off spot is what I would expect to see from a last place team. His .322 OBP is slightly worse than his .326 OBP last year. As long as Pierre is a Cub, he will lead off. The Cubs need to go out and find someone who can get on base. Bringing Pierre back would not even remotely enter my mind in discussions about the 2007 team. I'd trade Pierre for whatever I can get and call it a loss. Of course, if I was the GM, Pierre never would have been here in the first place. At least not at the cost of 3 pitching prospects.

Hasn't Oakland gone through a lot of injuries on offense? Ellis, Crosby, Chavez, Thomas, Bradley just off the top of my head?

Steve Finley was brought in as a 4th outfielder. Randy Winn would be there normally. Finley would mostly be spelling Bonds in LF if everyone was healthy. Tavares is Pierre, but league minimum. Patterson makes 1/3 of what Pierre makes. Brady Clark, Gabe Gross and Anthony Gwynn make less than half what Pierre makes, and all 3 are probably capable of providing equal or better OBP. Jose Bautista in Pittsburgh has a better OBP. My point is that Pierre makes way too much money for so little. If Pierre could provide a .360+ OBP, I'd shut up and let him play. He hasn't come near that number since 2004.

Nope. Murton makes league minimum, so that kind of production is acceptable. Pierre is getting big dollars.

Because Ronny Cedeno, our most ready rookie right now (not counting Murton-he's had a little more service time) certainly is playing as well as Pierre-except that's not true, and the gap is widening every single day. So no, the minors are not full of guys who can provide Pierre's production. I'm sorry. I wasn't referring to just "our" minors. Just about every team has a guy that could provide CF production that Juan Pierre has provided. I was referring to the fact that Juan Pierre 2006 production could easily be matched by minimum salary replacement. I think the Cubs could put Buck Coats or Sam Fuld in CF tomorrow and you wouldn't have much of a drop off. Is it worth 6m or more to bring Pierre back when you can the same production from a rookie? Cedeno is a SS and he's hitting exactly like I expected he would.

Whoops. I missed that. Anyway, Juan Pierre 2006 is easy to replace. The minors are flooded with guys who can provide Juan Pierre 2006 production.

Besides getting someone to play CF in a trade, what internal option is there? Pie is far from ready. He certainly isn't a good lead-off option. I would love for Hendry to improve upon Pierre in CF, but he may have to do so via the trade. Is there someone I'm not thinking of? Adam Greenberg?