CP_414

You can lead the way.

you got in before my edit. you're missing the context of the statement. Then your point isn't clear at all. All I did was take the statement you made and turned it around on you. Whether Soccer10 thinks he is perfect or not (I have no idea, I didn't read all 21 pages) the point remains that because someone is wrong about issue A doesn't mean they are wrong about issue Q.

there is no time limitation on wrong. But this isn't a Rex Grossman thread. This is a CFB thread. oh, that's right. threads never diverge from their primary focus. he was wrong about Grossman, there's a good chance he's wrong about the Big East too. Have you ever been wrong about anything in your life? Then there's a good chance you are wrong about this. That's silly. yes I have as I have readily admitted multiple times on this board. I will make a strong case and if I am wrong I will admit it. I have no problem with that. with Grossman, turned out I wasn't wrong, and I don't think I am wrong about the Big East either. if the Big East romps through bowl season, I will be here admitting I was wrong. I don't think I will have to. Funny thing is, I agree with you about the Big East, but your logic that he was wrong about Rex Grossman so he's wrong about the Big East is nutty.

there is no time limitation on wrong. But this isn't a Rex Grossman thread. This is a CFB thread. oh, that's right. threads never diverge from their primary focus. he was wrong about Grossman, there's a good chance he's wrong about the Big East too. Have you ever been wrong about anything in your life? Then there's a good chance you are wrong about this. That's silly.

They posted those projections in the post for each signing. Soriano (ouch): 2007 ZiPS Projection - Alfonso Soriano ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB BA OBP SLG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Projection 642 100 170 38 2 36 98 50 150 27 .265 .327 .498 2008 602 92 161 39 2 31 77 44 144 24 .267 .325 .493 2009 578 83 151 39 2 26 67 41 136 21 .261 .321 .471 2010 550 75 141 39 2 21 59 38 126 17 .256 .314 .449 2011 502 66 127 36 2 18 50 35 114 12 .253 .312 .440 2012 423 53 105 30 1 13 38 30 96 8 .248 .312 .416 2013 370 45 92 26 1 10 30 26 82 6 .249 .315 .405 2014 384 49 95 27 1 11 33 29 88 6 .247 .317 .409 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Opt. (15%) 667 124 194 46 4 46 114 62 142 40 .291 .361 .579 Pes. (15%) 505 69 122 26 1 25 56 34 130 17 .242 .295 .446 DeRosa (ouch): 2007 ZiPS Projection - Mark DeRosa ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB BA OBP SLG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Projection 404 54 107 30 1 8 49 32 85 2 .265 .324 .403 2008 363 50 94 25 1 8 43 30 71 2 .259 .324 .399 2009 355 48 93 26 1 7 42 29 72 2 .262 .326 .400 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Opt. (15%) 458 72 132 37 2 12 64 43 85 3 .288 .357 .456 Pess. (15% 264 29 62 16 0 3 25 17 65 0 .235 .286 .330 Well thats not good.

It still wouldn't make any sense for the Brewers to deal Sheets within the division. I'm not saying they would.

I think you're coming to see the incentive though. I think it obvious the Brewers have to shed a salary. the question becomes who. Jenkins, as you imply isn't going to be easy. trading sheets at this point would be like trying to trade Kerry Wood in 2005. not going to happen. Cordero? not with his performance. Clark? maybe, but that doesn't shed enough. who's left? I said in my first post in reply to you that I think Sheets could be available for the right price. The Brewers will not have to shed any salaries until 2008, and they are already losing Jenkins/Clark/Cordero/Koskie/Miller that year. The next time they will be forced to shed a salary to keep the core of the team intact is when Prince/Weeks hit arbitration. Cordero and Clark are also up after 2007. Simply put, dumping Hall is not necessary now because he doesn't make very much money, and he and Capuano are the only players due raises in the next 2 years. When you have a $60 Million payroll you don't salary dump the guy who was your best hitter the previous season who made $418,000 that season. They can extend Hall and Capuano, play out this season, and use Jenkins/Cordero/Doug Davis/Koskie/Miller/Clark's money to pay for the early arby years of Prince/Weeks/Hardy/Corey Hart. If they do need to dump a salary in the near future it will be Sheets $12 Million, not Hall's 4-5 Million. Hall is under team control for 3 more years, and will be a value for those 3 years. did you miss my point about getting rid of Sheets is like trying to get rid of Wood a couple years ago> who is going to trade for an annually injured pitcher for that price tag. I personally think you have to view Sheets and his salary as a Brewer until he proves he can make 30 starts in a season. Oh, I just disagree with that. I think the Brewers would have no problem finding a taker for Sheets. The guy is just dominating when he pitches, and the way the market is going a lot of teams would take a $12 Million risk on a guy like that. I think the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, and Cubs should all be interested if Sheets is available.

Thats just nutty.

Amen.

I think you're coming to see the incentive though. I think it obvious the Brewers have to shed a salary. the question becomes who. Jenkins, as you imply isn't going to be easy. trading sheets at this point would be like trying to trade Kerry Wood in 2005. not going to happen. Cordero? not with his performance. Clark? maybe, but that doesn't shed enough. who's left? I said in my first post in reply to you that I think Sheets could be available for the right price. The Brewers will not have to shed any salaries until 2008, and they are already losing Jenkins/Clark/Cordero/Koskie/Miller that year. The next time they will be forced to shed a salary to keep the core of the team intact is when Prince/Weeks hit arbitration. Cordero and Clark are also up after 2007. Simply put, dumping Hall is not necessary now because he doesn't make very much money, and he and Capuano are the only players due raises in the next 2 years. When you have a $60 Million payroll you don't salary dump the guy who was your best hitter the previous season who made $418,000 that season. They can extend Hall and Capuano, play out this season, and use Jenkins/Cordero/Doug Davis/Koskie/Miller/Clark's money to pay for the early arby years of Prince/Weeks/Hardy/Corey Hart. If they do need to dump a salary in the near future it will be Sheets $12 Million, not Hall's 4-5 Million. Hall is under team control for 3 more years, and will be a value for those 3 years.

That's quite an assumption to make considering Hall is toolsy as heck--just the kind of guy that Hendry seems to be infatuated with. Jim Hendry loves Bill Hall. Fueling the fire. The question is does Jim Hendry love Bill Hall more than Doug Melvin loves Bill Hall?

The Brewers payroll is expected to expand to $60 Million this year. After this next season they have Jenkins ($8M), Brady Clark (3.8M) and Cordero ($5M) off the books. They are still years away from paying Prince or Weeks. They can let Doug Davis go because they have Gallardo, Inman, and Rodgers coming up in the next year. They also have Koskie coming off the books after 07 with Ryan Braun taking over 3B. I expect to hear about multi-year extensions for Hall and Capuano before Opening Day. In 08 the Brewers will look something like this: C- Rivera? 1B Fielder 2B Weeks SS Hardy 3B Braun LF Hall CF ??? RF Corey Hart SP Sheets, Capuano, Bush, Villenueva, Gallardo (Inman/Rodgers) That is a high potential team, and cheap enough for them to afford. Now in about 4-5 years they will have no chance at affording that team. Bill Hall is only in his 1st year of arby. There would be no reason for them to trade their cleanup hitter at this point for salary purposes. He will probably get no more than $5 Million in 07. Now, for the right package, I think Ben Sheets could be quite available. a good breakdown, but I think you miss the fact that as these years roll by, Weeks, Hardy, Fielder, et al start becoming arbitration eligible while Ben Sheets is taking up 1/5 of the teams salary. you can't just dismiss it as 'they are years away from having to be paid.' seems to me they will be squeezing the salary weenie balloon. Cordero comes off, but they have to pay Capuano. Clark comes off but they have to pay Hardy. Jenkins comes off but they have to pay Weeks. 5 million is quite significant when Sheets, Jenkins, and Cordero are taking up more than one third of the teams 60M salary. not saying you are wrong, just trying to hash this whole thing out. Thats why I think Sheets could be available. With this years team the Brewers have room for Hall at $5 Million, even if they can't move Jenkins like they are trying to do. The only monster contract they currently have is Sheets who makes a fifth of the team payroll and is "injury prone". If the Brewers are looking to dump a salary it won't be Bill Hall's 4-5 Million it will be Sheets and his $12M a year. With Gallardo (who looks like a legit #1 starter) close to the bigs; and Rodgers (#1-2) ability close behind the Brewers might be ready to lose Sheets contract. They also have high hopes for Villenueva this season and Dave Bush finished pretty strong and looks like a solid #3 in 07. I would love Billy Hall as the Cubs SS. It would be fantastic, but I don't see the incentive from the Brewers side unless they are getting equal or better value back.

If the Big East teams get beat in the bowl games I will not be making excuses and I would expect you to do the same if the Big East wins. Your complete and total hatred of the Big East is clearly clouding your judgement of the conference and because of this your opinion is EXTREMELY biased. My point of view comes from actually watching the games on the field. I'm not from the east coast and have no ties to any schools out there. I also don't have any ties to any west coast schools seeing as UC Davis is DI-AA. The only team I dislike is Notre Dame but I have the ability to analyze their situation with an unbiased perspective. I think that Louisville and West Virginia are good teams based on what I have seen on the field. I am not the only person who holds this belief. Like I said, if the Big East loses their bowl games, I won't make excuses unless they are justified (i.e. referee screwjob a la Oklahoma-Oregon). I would expect you to admit you are wrong if the Big East wins their games but I know you won't so that effort is futile. The same goes for Wisconsin. After this, I'm done debating you on this topic because of your extreme bias. Get an unbiased point of view and then we'll talk. I had absolutely no opinion of the Big East conference until Cuse, backed by you, kept dominating every single college football thread whining about them being shown no respect. you have noone to blame for these conversations other than Cuse and yourself. WVU and Louisville are good teams. I never said the weren't. but the notion that they could play with the power teams in the power conferences or should be considered for a shot at the national title is absurd, and I think deep down you know that. the fact that two of them are rated in the top 10 is also absurd, because I think deep down you both know that the rankings are based mostly on incumbancy, and with no teams other than each other (and the improved Rutgers team) on the schedule with even a ray of hope to beat them, they will remain highly rated in both polls. your accusation of bias, similarly absurd. I guess they guy who has his schools nickname in his username is on the up and up and completely unbiased. the Big East used to be a fine conference, but they just lost their three top teams. you want to paint calling a spade a spade as biased, be my guest. Not to mention that neither WVU or UL has beaten that improved Rutgers team yet. WVU has yet to play them yet but don't let facts get in the way. What fact was I wrong about? I never said Rutgers beat WVU.

They already have the white version of Jacque Jones and they plan on trading or benching him. But the black version is cheaper! Maybe they want some relievers? I love the thought, but I don't see it happening with Billy Hall. If you want to trade with the Brewers offer Pie, Eyre, Wuertz, and Marshall for Sheets and Gwynn Jr. I think Milwaukee would do that one.

If the Big East teams get beat in the bowl games I will not be making excuses and I would expect you to do the same if the Big East wins. Your complete and total hatred of the Big East is clearly clouding your judgement of the conference and because of this your opinion is EXTREMELY biased. My point of view comes from actually watching the games on the field. I'm not from the east coast and have no ties to any schools out there. I also don't have any ties to any west coast schools seeing as UC Davis is DI-AA. The only team I dislike is Notre Dame but I have the ability to analyze their situation with an unbiased perspective. I think that Louisville and West Virginia are good teams based on what I have seen on the field. I am not the only person who holds this belief. Like I said, if the Big East loses their bowl games, I won't make excuses unless they are justified (i.e. referee screwjob a la Oklahoma-Oregon). I would expect you to admit you are wrong if the Big East wins their games but I know you won't so that effort is futile. The same goes for Wisconsin. After this, I'm done debating you on this topic because of your extreme bias. Get an unbiased point of view and then we'll talk. I had absolutely no opinion of the Big East conference until Cuse, backed by you, kept dominating every single college football thread whining about them being shown no respect. you have noone to blame for these conversations other than Cuse and yourself. WVU and Louisville are good teams. I never said the weren't. but the notion that they could play with the power teams in the power conferences or should be considered for a shot at the national title is absurd, and I think deep down you know that. the fact that two of them are rated in the top 10 is also absurd, because I think deep down you both know that the rankings are based mostly on incumbancy, and with no teams other than each other (and the improved Rutgers team) on the schedule with even a ray of hope to beat them, they will remain highly rated in both polls. your accusation of bias, similarly absurd. I guess they guy who has his schools nickname in his username is on the up and up and completely unbiased. the Big East used to be a fine conference, but they just lost their three top teams. you want to paint calling a spade a spade as biased, be my guest. Not to mention that neither WVU or UL has beaten that improved Rutgers team yet.

Offensively speaking at least, Hall is so underrated. No one knows he exists. I don't know anything about his D, wasn't he a utility guy before he forced them to play him over JJ Hardy? His D was poor at first when he took over SS, but he ended up being pretty good. He's good enough defensively to be at least average at 2B, SS, 3B, or any outfiled spot.

.280/.350/.550 35 HR's, 100 RBI's

The Brewers payroll is expected to expand to $60 Million this year. After this next season they have Jenkins ($8M), Brady Clark (3.8M) and Cordero ($5M) off the books. They are still years away from paying Prince or Weeks. They can let Doug Davis go because they have Gallardo, Inman, and Rodgers coming up in the next year. They also have Koskie coming off the books after 07 with Ryan Braun taking over 3B. I expect to hear about multi-year extensions for Hall and Capuano before Opening Day. In 08 the Brewers will look something like this: C- Rivera? 1B Fielder 2B Weeks SS Hardy 3B Braun LF Hall CF ??? RF Corey Hart SP Sheets, Capuano, Bush, Villenueva, Gallardo (Inman/Rodgers) That is a high potential team, and cheap enough for them to afford. Now in about 4-5 years they will have no chance at affording that team. Bill Hall is only in his 1st year of arby. There would be no reason for them to trade their cleanup hitter at this point for salary purposes. He will probably get no more than $5 Million in 07. Now, for the right package, I think Ben Sheets could be quite available.

That could be helpful with Manning Jr out.

Bill Hall is the starting LF and cleanup hitter for Milwaukee. They won't be giving him away. I agree that the conversation would start with Rich Hill. It's not worth it.

He beats us up, but I would rather have him there at that price than a lot of other guys. If the Astros add Lee, but lose Clemens, they will be worse in 07 than 06.

I really cant argue with the rankings because I personally feel we would lose to the Colts and Chargers if we played them this Sunday. Why do you think that? The Colts just got beat by a team worse than us, and SD has 2 losses. I've always thought SD belonged in the top 3 or 4 teams in the league. They've definitely been pretty underrated until recently. As far as your logic goes, the Bears got beat by a team that's worse than the team that beat the Colts, and just by virtue of playing in the AFC, SD's schedule has been tougher than the Bears' to this point. Of course, if the Bears take this one in NE, there's no room left to dispute them, but I don't think it's unfair to place those two teams ahead of Chicago, at least until Monday :) The point wasn't that the Bears are unbeatable, but why would a Bears fan expect them to lose to anyone at this point? The Bears are as good, if not better, than anyone in the NFL. Everyone loves the Chargers, but they have allowed 19,27,24,25,41,27 points the last 6 weeks. The Colts are a great team, but I think the Bears at their best beats anyone else in the league at their best. Can the Bears lose? You bet. They could lose this weekend, but I see no reason to ever expect this team to get beat. For those who say we have to "prove something" by winning this Sunday, can we stop that already? First it was prove something by going to Minn and winning, they did that. Then everyone said Minnesota sucked, so they had to beat Seattle. They killed Seattle, but Shaun Alexander was out. So then it was beat the Giants. They did that. That wasn't enough, so then it was beat the 5-4 Jets who had just beat the Patriots. They shut them out. Now it's the Patriots. Next it will be "the Bears are good, but they have to win a playoff game before they are legit." They are legit. They are miles ahead of anyone in th NFC. Enjoy the best bears team since the mid 80's.

I really cant argue with the rankings because I personally feel we would lose to the Colts and Chargers if we played them this Sunday. Why do you think that? The Colts just got beat by a team worse than us, and SD has 2 losses. I don't agree with losing to the Colts, but right now our run defense is a weakness. LT would find daylight all day long. Didn't Denver just put up about 28 on them? We can score, too.

I really cant argue with the rankings because I personally feel we would lose to the Colts and Chargers if we played them this Sunday. Why do you think that? The Colts just got beat by a team worse than us, and SD has 2 losses.

I thought you're in SF?? And did WSCR break out of Blackhawks play-by-play to allow Ralph Whatever-his-name-is to discuss Jason Schmidt? EDIT: Olney doesn't work for WSCR either, he works for ESPN which would be WMVP. Yup. Shady.