vaball

Do players go into the clubhouse and watch the game on tv or something during the actual game? How would Walker even know what is being said?

Without a foot I think his power numbers would decline, but he'd probably still hit for high average. OBP would probably take a big hit though, not enough walks. Badoom boom.

I know, why are we paying Pujols all this money since we don't even really need him. Seems like a big waste to me. I'm surprised how well the ultrasonic treatment worked. Last season he apparently played through great pain on a daily basis. This is the first I've heard of the foot condition since before spring training. If the the ultrasonic treatment works this well, and only takes him out of the lineup for 4 or 5 games when he gets it, why risk surgery? Depends on his prognosis I guess. If the condition will only deteriorate then surgery will probably be inevitable.

Big Z and Urlacher on the same defense! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o Hey man, Taverez's picture in your sig, not cool.

Watch it go to Andruw Jones. If Pujols loses the MVP to Lee I will be upset, but Lee is deserving. If he loses it to Jones, that will be a travesty.

I think it's really cool that he did that, but how on earth did the Cubs allow it? I guess at this point in the season it doesn't matter if he turns an ankle or blows out his knee or something like that.

Well they are now tied in win shares, so now we have a mathematical formula showing us that their respective impacts on winning games, at this point, are the same. In light of that wouldn't you have to say that because the Cardinals will be in the playoffs that, Pujols' win shares have yielded more value than Lee's? And despite what comes across has a much superior offense, which it is because of the disparity in runs scored, how can you say that Pujols has a much better supporting cast when the Cubs have a higher team OPS? I don't watch Lee play enough to know what kind of baserunner he is and what his defensive smarts are. My impression is that he is great in both those categories. I do watch enough of Pujols to know that he is an excellent baserunner, in spite of not having Lee's speed. His defensive smarts are just as good as Lee's I would say. I think Lee's superior defense comes from a superior skill set, reach, hands, etc., not from better defensive knowledge.

How was this a brawl? Duncan and McClendon were talking, arguing, whatever with each other and Perry just trots in to the scene and sucker punches Duncan. Seems like the only one who should be suspended is Perry.

Lee has had significantly less opportunities for RBI than Pujols, mostly because OBP disasters Corey and Neifi (sometimes Macias) were hitting 1-2 for the majority of the first half, which makes up for his RBI defecit (I think there was a post somewhere on the boards regarding this... there was also something in the Trib). Also, I don't really buy into factoring in Runs scored as a Pujols advantage when their walks and OBP are nearly identical, and Lee has more SB... I think it's attributed to the Cardinals offense being better than the Cubs offense. Ramirez was there for a good portion of the season, but was also hurt for a good portion, and how many times did we see Lee get a leadoff single or double only to wind up stranded? Even with all of their injuries, Stl still has a better offense, and despite all this Pujols has a miniscule 5 R lead over Lee. I don't dispute that for most of the season Lee has had fewer RBI opportunities than Pujols, but so what? When Lee was blowing Pujols away in every offensive category earlier in the season the MVP decision didn't seem like a tough one, but now their stats are close enough, Lee ahead in some, Pujols in others, that each has an equally compelling statistical case in my opinion. When two players are close statistically I think the postseason fate of their teams can be taken into consideration. Without Lee the Cubs might have finished last, with him they'll finish fourth. How valuable does that make his contribution then? On the other hand, with Pujols the Cards will make the postseason with the best record in baseball, without him, well, who knows. ++ well stated The rest of Pujols' team is better than the rest of Lee's team, something which must be taken into consideration. We're not talking about "places" in the division here, we're talking about the impact a player has on a team (at least, that's what I think the MVP should be based on). There have been MVP winners on last place teams before, (A-Rod was the most recent) because they didn't just have the best stats - they were the most valuable to their team. Lee is more valuable. Without him, the Cubs would, in my opinion, be one of the worst teams in the National League. The Cardinals, without Pujols would be in 3rd place at worst because they have the pitching to carry them. You say that Pujols and Lee are so close statistically that we should use the postseason as a tiebreaker... not a new concept. But why not use defense, baserunning, baseball intelligence, etc. your tiebreaker? Look, Pujols is a stud, and I'm sure he's going to be a future hall of famer, but I cannot give him the MVP award when he's up against a guy beating him in Avg, Obp, Slg, and HR, and trailing him by 6 RBI when he's had significantly less chances. "This Guy" is also superior with the leather (Gold Glove this year), faster, and a better baserunner.... just because his team is going to the playoffs. Basically, you're agreeing with me that Lee's impact on the Cubs, in spite of having a season for the ages, amounts to the difference between the team being an also-ran and fininishing dead last. You say: "we're talking about the impact a player has on a team (at least, that's what I think the MVP should be based on)." Ultimately, what "value" did Lee add to the Cubs? The "value" of not finishing last? You concede that for the Cardinals, Pujols might be the difference between a postseason appearance (and thus a possible WS ring) and, "3rd place at worst." How does a player get anymore valuable than that? Nobody can say where the Cards would have finished without Pujols, but I don't think it is at all obvious, as many here assert, that the Cards would have made the playoffs without him. He has been the rock of this team all season. When the rest of the team was taking turns on the DL, Pujols was playing almost every game, playing with the consistency that makes him so remarkable. Rolen, Sanders, and Walker have missed a combined 46% of the team's games this season. That is huge. The talents you list like "baserunning, baseball knowledge, etc." are not really quantifiable, and if they are I don't know where to find them, so they can't be used as criteria. But if your evidence is the personal obervations of scouts and commentators I think you will find just as many in the Pujols camp as you can find in the Lee camp. IIRC when A-Rod won his MVP in 2003 for the last place Rangers, he had, by far, a better season than anyone else in the AL. I don't think the statistical difference is enough in this case to repeat that model.

Lee has had significantly less opportunities for RBI than Pujols, mostly because OBP disasters Corey and Neifi (sometimes Macias) were hitting 1-2 for the majority of the first half, which makes up for his RBI defecit (I think there was a post somewhere on the boards regarding this... there was also something in the Trib). Also, I don't really buy into factoring in Runs scored as a Pujols advantage when their walks and OBP are nearly identical, and Lee has more SB... I think it's attributed to the Cardinals offense being better than the Cubs offense. Ramirez was there for a good portion of the season, but was also hurt for a good portion, and how many times did we see Lee get a leadoff single or double only to wind up stranded? Even with all of their injuries, Stl still has a better offense, and despite all this Pujols has a miniscule 5 R lead over Lee. I don't dispute that for most of the season Lee has had fewer RBI opportunities than Pujols, but so what? When Lee was blowing Pujols away in every offensive category earlier in the season the MVP decision didn't seem like a tough one, but now their stats are close enough, Lee ahead in some, Pujols in others, that each has an equally compelling statistical case in my opinion. When two players are close statistically I think the postseason fate of their teams can be taken into consideration. Without Lee the Cubs might have finished last, with him they'll finish fourth. How valuable does that make his contribution then? On the other hand, with Pujols the Cards will make the postseason with the best record in baseball, without him, well, who knows.

The Cards are beating the Marlins, a potential playoff foe, 7-0 right now with Jeff Suppan starting and an outfield of Seabol, Taguchi, and Luna. It's games like this bode well for their WS chances.

I'm not sure who gets the MVP, but it should be either Pujols or Lee. I don't think that the voters who select Pujols can fairly be called idiots though. Lee and Pujols' stats are very close, especially in the triple crown categories. Lee leads Pujols in BA by ten points and SLG by sixty points. Pujols leads Lee in runs scored and RBI. Lee has one more win share than Pujols. Statiscally I don't think either one is especially more deserving than the other. You can't penalize Pujols because he hits in a better lineup or because he plays for a competant manager. I don't think it's at all clear that the Cardinals would be in the playoffs without Pujols. This isn't like last season when Edmonds and Rolen were each having MVP caliber seasons. For most of this season Pujols' supporting cast has been the likes of Nunez and Taguchi who, while having great seasons for bench guys, hardly constitute a murderers row. You can't blame voters for being influenced by a team's overall success, either, or for feeling that Pujols has been denied an MVP so far only because of Barroid. It sounds like some hear would like the decision to be made by a computer.

well, planet, at the time you stated this, I would have agreed with you. Who knew? The Cardinals are currently on pace to break the team record (192 in 1974) for double plays turned in a season (over 200). Yeah big shock Eckstein and Grudz both became better players once they donned the Red. The impact of the Secret Weapon, Jose Oquendo.

"General So," lol, that is so offensive. He's not even Chinese.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/3216C102A5DDC7338625706D00192263?OpenDocument Supposedly succesful surgery, though more extensive than anticipated, and he should be able to resume baseball activities in January and be good to go for spring training. Incidentally this is the same surgeon who will operate on Wood's shoulder later this week.

Obviously the Cardinals are the last team that most on this message board would like to see win it all, but you've got to give them the credit they deserve, albeit grudgingly. After embarassing themselves in the WS last year they dusted themselves off and picked right up where they left off, and are currently on pace to win 102 games and have once again blown away the division. This in spite of having to replace their all-star shortstop, career year second baseman, and stalwart catcher in the offseason. Also in spite of having been infected with the injury bug big time this season, missing half their starting lineup since the all-star break until now, and having essentially missed Scott Rolen for the entire year. Even though I predicted them to win between 97-100 games they way they have endured the injuries and even thrived under them is nothing short of remarkable. I don't expect anyone here to pay compliments to their sworn enemy, but if the Cards do end up winning it all they will certainly have earned it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Giles in a Cards uniform next season. We are looking at needing at least one outfielder, possibly two. He's a little old at this point so I wouldn't want them to give him anything longer than three years. Moving into the new stadium and all, and after the record attendance this season the team should have some more money to throw around, or might at least be looking to make a splash moving into the new stadium. Which leads me to Johnny Damon anyone? Boras client I know but supposedly the Cards have a good relationship with Boras because of Ankiel. Stick Damon in right in 2006 and move him to center when Edmonds' contract expires. Unlikely I know, but it could happen.

There is just no way that will happen. Too many other teams need outfielders.

Not just Zito, Zito and a prospect! That trade would never happen. Other than that though I would say everything else is plausible, hypothetically. But with so few good free agents this off-season I would be very surprised to see one team land Giles, Furcal, and Wagner.

So does this mean that nobody in the NL wanted Lawton? Don't NL teams get a shot at him before AL teams do? I find that a little surprising.

Molina's coming back tonight? Sweet. Good bye Mahoney. Just get the surgery Scott and come back next season. There's a lot of years left on that contract.

I've actually always liked that uniform for some reason.

I suspect this show to be rigged.

Not to defend Raffy, but Winstrol is a fairly weak steriod. You're balls won't shrink, and I doubt you feel any different. Except for the sore ass. :lol: Where do you come up with that? Can you back that statement up? Yeah, for the past couple of days that media portrayal of it has been that it is quite a potent steroid.