Thats my point, there isnt even 1 guy who consistently wins 20 games, yet everybody loves bringing it up when talking about Zambrano. Zambrano has never really been that guy(true #1)? Really? 2003 3.11 ERA 1.318 Whip 32 games started 214 innings pitched at age 22 but he only won 13 games so he sucked 2004 2.75 ERA 1.216 WHIP 31 games started 208 innings pitched at age 23, but only won 16 games so he sucked. I can keep listing his stats and they all will have an ERA under 4 and usually have 200 innings pitched along with them. Add those numbers along with his offensive production he provided Z has consistently been a top 15 pitcher in all of baseball, and in the majority of those years, hes been a top 10 pitcher since he arrived. But because Z didnt get to some magical number of 20 wins that basically every other pitcher in baseball doesnt ever get too, Z gets called an underachiever, not a true #1, etc...... I never have and never will say anything about Zambrano not winning 20 games as a reason he's not #1. I defy you to find even one post from me that suggests that wins is a useful stat in measuring a pitcher's value. What I will say is that he is not the same pitcher he was back in 2003-04. Sometimes he shows flashes. He may be the best starting pitcher on the current team. But you'll have to show me how he's still a top 10 pitcher.