hahahhahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[K-Town]

Dusty Baker's voted the best manager in that poll. :?

 

The players have spoken. So if we use that as proof as Cardinal fans as the best fans, we also have to say Dusty Baker is the best manager.

 

You agree with that, K-town? (or don't you take the players word for it?)

 

I agree that the players think that Dusty Baker is the best manager and that St. Louis has the best fans. That's what the players believe. It's their opinion. In the context of the discussion we were having, that's all that matters.

 

So, what you're saying is that just because the players think something doesn't make it so.

 

Therefore, their opinion on best manager or best fans means nothing in deciding the truth or validity of those statements.

 

Therefore, we're back to the fact that the idea that the Cardinals have the best fans is an unsubstantiated myth and that St. Louis is the best baseball town is furthermore an unsubstantiated myth.

 

 

It's substantiated in the context of what we were talking about earlier, which is what brought it up in the first place.

Edited October 19, 2005 by K-Town

[K-Town]

40% of these same players thought at the time the drug testing in place was adequate.

 

I'm not sure I'd trust their judgement on much.

 

So, K-town, do you agree with them that Dusty is the best manager, or do the players' opinions count only when you want them to?

 

I don't think it's Scientific poll or anything nor does it prove we are the “greatest baseball fans” but I think it does show a general attitude players have about st. louis and why they want to play there.

 

Hence, I think we get an above avg amount of "friendly" contracts.

 

Thank you.

 

That's what I was getting at.

[indifferent]

It's easy to spot a best fan. They walk around, dressed in red, with a beatific look on their face and an overall golden aura, spouting obscure baseball stats to the enlightenment of lesser fans everywhere.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

40% of these same players thought at the time the drug testing in place was adequate.

 

I'm not sure I'd trust their judgement on much.

 

So, K-town, do you agree with them that Dusty is the best manager, or do the players' opinions count only when you want them to?

 

 

The drug issue has changed dramatically over the last 2 years. Fan support hasn't. I could see how the numbers would change if the drug testing was asked today, but I'm not sure why there would be much of a change of opinion on "best fans".

 

I'm not saying that I agree with them or disagree with them about anything. I'm just telling you what they believe, and in the context of what we were talking about, that's relevant.

 

It's only relevant if those opinions have validity. You can't say they are valid at one point and not in another.

 

If you say the players, because they are closer to the game, should be given weight as to their opinion on "best fans" then more or at least equal weight should be given to the idea of "best manager."

 

My guess is if we had an independent thread in which we were arguing the merits of Dusty Baker as the best manager in baseball, I'm sure you would love to trumpet TLR. If I were to use that poll as a basis for saying Baker is a better manager, I doubt you would place much weight in it at all.

 

But in trying to substantiate your crap of Cardinals having the best fans, which is nothing more than a egotistical circle jerk by a Cards fan, you use this poll. It either means something or it doesn't.

 

If you don't agree with it, why bring it up?

[K-Town]

And no, the players are not a definitive source. They have minimal interaction with fans of opposing teams. They aren't predisposed to objective analysis(as any "analyst" will prove through their work). YOU CAN'T TELL WHO HAS THE "BEST" FANS. And if you start claiming you are, you take away from those who claim that you are, because the best fans in the game certainly wouldn't be so self-righteous.

 

They're a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussing. They have interaction with fans, and players from other teams. I'm sure that's what they're basing their opinions on. What do YOU think they're basing their opinions on?

 

As pointed out, it's not a scientific poll, but it works for the context that we need it to work.

[K-Town]

It's only relevant if those opinions have validity. You can't say they are valid at one point and not in another.

 

If you say the players, because they are closer to the game, should be given weight as to their opinion on "best fans" then more or at least equal weight should be given to the idea of "best manager."

 

My guess is if we had an independent thread in which we were arguing the merits of Dusty Baker as the best manager in baseball, I'm sure you would love to trumpet TLR. If I were to use that poll as a basis for saying Baker is a better manager, I doubt you would place much weight in it at all.

 

But in trying to substantiate your crap of Cardinals having the best fans, which is nothing more than a egotistical circle jerk by a Cards fan, you use this poll. It either means something or it doesn't.

 

If you don't agree with it, why bring it up?

 

 

Here you go....... Cardsfaninchicago said it better than I did.

 

I don't think it's Scientific poll or anything nor does it prove we are the “greatest baseball fans” but I think it does show a general attitude players have about st. louis and why they want to play there.

 

Hence, I think we get an above avg amount of "friendly" contracts

.

 

 

As for the "best manager in baseball", if you were to make an argument that the players thing that he's the best manager, and used that poll as your source, I wouldn't dispute it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And no, the players are not a definitive source. They have minimal interaction with fans of opposing teams. They aren't predisposed to objective analysis(as any "analyst" will prove through their work). YOU CAN'T TELL WHO HAS THE "BEST" FANS. And if you start claiming you are, you take away from those who claim that you are, because the best fans in the game certainly wouldn't be so self-righteous.

 

They're a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussing. They have interaction with fans, and players from other teams. I'm sure that's what they're basing their opinions on. What do YOU think they're basing their opinions on?

 

As pointed out, it's not a scientific poll, but it works for the context that we need it to work.

 

Just because a player gives a team a discount because he thinks the fans are great, does not make it so. By the same token, an unfair, outdated players poll doesn't prove it either.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And no, the players are not a definitive source. They have minimal interaction with fans of opposing teams. They aren't predisposed to objective analysis(as any "analyst" will prove through their work). YOU CAN'T TELL WHO HAS THE "BEST" FANS. And if you start claiming you are, you take away from those who claim that you are, because the best fans in the game certainly wouldn't be so self-righteous.

 

They're a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussing. They have interaction with fans, and players from other teams. I'm sure that's what they're basing their opinions on. What do YOU think they're basing their opinions on?

 

As pointed out, it's not a scientific poll, but it works for the context that we need it to work.

 

Look at what he said. Why weren't White Sox fans and Cubs fans separated in that poll? Might it have mattered? Who knows? But a lot of AL players wouldn't have chosen "Chicago" because they don't think "best fans" when they consider the scum they deal with at the cell. (My. Dybas, we're looking at you.)

 

The poll means nothing, and if you think it means something, please tell me, who is the best manager? Surely I'd take the players word on that over best fans.

[treebird]

vance do that thing with the louis armstrong picture

[K-Town]

And no, the players are not a definitive source. They have minimal interaction with fans of opposing teams. They aren't predisposed to objective analysis(as any "analyst" will prove through their work). YOU CAN'T TELL WHO HAS THE "BEST" FANS. And if you start claiming you are, you take away from those who claim that you are, because the best fans in the game certainly wouldn't be so self-righteous.

 

They're a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussing. They have interaction with fans, and players from other teams. I'm sure that's what they're basing their opinions on. What do YOU think they're basing their opinions on?

 

As pointed out, it's not a scientific poll, but it works for the context that we need it to work.

 

Just because a player gives a team a discount because he thinks the fans are great, does not make it so. By the same token, an unfair, outdated players poll doesn't prove it either.

 

In the players' opinion, it is so. That's all that matters, in the context of what we're talking about.

 

The poll is only a year and a half old. You think that Cardinal fans have done something to go from 50% (verses 13% for 2nd place) to something much less than that?

 

The poll wasn't even close.

[K-Town]

And no, the players are not a definitive source. They have minimal interaction with fans of opposing teams. They aren't predisposed to objective analysis(as any "analyst" will prove through their work). YOU CAN'T TELL WHO HAS THE "BEST" FANS. And if you start claiming you are, you take away from those who claim that you are, because the best fans in the game certainly wouldn't be so self-righteous.

 

They're a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussing. They have interaction with fans, and players from other teams. I'm sure that's what they're basing their opinions on. What do YOU think they're basing their opinions on?

 

As pointed out, it's not a scientific poll, but it works for the context that we need it to work.

 

Look at what he said. Why weren't White Sox fans and Cubs fans separated in that poll? Might it have mattered? Who knows? But a lot of AL players wouldn't have chosen "Chicago" because they don't think "best fans" when they consider the scum they deal with at the cell. (My. Dybas, we're looking at you.)

 

The poll means nothing, and if you think it means something, please tell me, who is the best manager? Surely I'd take the players word on that over best fans.

 

I have no idea what would happen if you seperated Chicago fans. I know that about 50% of National League players believe that St. Louis has the best fans. That's pretty decisive, especially in the context of what we're talking about.

 

I have my own opinion on who the best manager in baseball is. That has nothing to do with players giving home town discounts.

[gus_dog]

Wow!!! :shock: You really do buy into it!

[K-Town]

Wow!!! :shock: You really do buy into it!

 

Buy into what?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

vance do that thing with the louis armstrong picture

 

Coming right up.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/vance_the_cubs_fan/armstrong.jpg

THIS THREAD BLOWS!

Along with anyone who believes that any team has the best fans.

[K-Town]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/vance_the_cubs_fan/armstrong.jpg

THIS THREAD BLOWS!

Along with anyone who believes that any team has the best fans.

 

Tell it to the players, not me. They're the ones who believe it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And no, the players are not a definitive source. They have minimal interaction with fans of opposing teams. They aren't predisposed to objective analysis(as any "analyst" will prove through their work). YOU CAN'T TELL WHO HAS THE "BEST" FANS. And if you start claiming you are, you take away from those who claim that you are, because the best fans in the game certainly wouldn't be so self-righteous.

 

They're a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussing. They have interaction with fans, and players from other teams. I'm sure that's what they're basing their opinions on. What do YOU think they're basing their opinions on?

 

As pointed out, it's not a scientific poll, but it works for the context that we need it to work.

 

Look at what he said. Why weren't White Sox fans and Cubs fans separated in that poll? Might it have mattered? Who knows? But a lot of AL players wouldn't have chosen "Chicago" because they don't think "best fans" when they consider the scum they deal with at the cell. (My. Dybas, we're looking at you.)

 

The poll means nothing, and if you think it means something, please tell me, who is the best manager? Surely I'd take the players word on that over best fans.

 

I have no idea what would happen if you seperated Chicago fans. I know that about 50% of National League players believe that St. Louis has the best fans. That's pretty decisive, especially in the context of what we're talking about.

 

I have my own opinion on who the best manager in baseball is. That has nothing to do with players giving home town discounts.

 

You don't think that the players might want to play for the "best manager"?

[gus_dog]

Wow!!! :shock: You really do buy into it!

 

Buy into what?

 

IMO, that poll is meaningless, within the context of whether or not a player signs below market. The real reasons, IMO, are:

 

1) Good organization

2) Good chance to get a WS ring

3) Good chance to play integral part (start)

 

Logic being that the money will be there, one way or the other (endorsements).

 

If you don't have the three items above, you are very unlikely to get a player to take below market to sign with you.

 

Is it not ironic that the Cardinal just happen to have an excellent organization and a good chance at the WS just about every year?

[mul21]

As a Cubs fan living in St. Louis and not blinded with red glasses as most Cards fans down here are, here is how it works. There is so little of anything going on in this city compared to other baseball towns during the summer that there is nothing else to do. Secondly, the fans are so brainwashed, in large part by the media, into thinking that the Cardinals can do no wrong that they blindly support the team regardless of what any individual may do. The good things done by Cardinal players, especially on the field, are so over hyped by the St. Louis media, you would think that every one of them is the greatest to ever play their position. I was at the last Cubs/Cards game down here and Edmonds took one of his typical stupid circular routes to a flyball, caught it either diving or crashing into the wall and got a standing O, because the Cardinals fans are too dumb to figure out that he's a showboating prima donna who, while a very good outfielder, is not nearly the player he makes himself look like. I criticized his catch and got peanuts thrown at me. Classy move from the best fans in baseball, huh?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

And no, the players are not a definitive source. They have minimal interaction with fans of opposing teams. They aren't predisposed to objective analysis(as any "analyst" will prove through their work). YOU CAN'T TELL WHO HAS THE "BEST" FANS. And if you start claiming you are, you take away from those who claim that you are, because the best fans in the game certainly wouldn't be so self-righteous.

 

They're a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussing. They have interaction with fans, and players from other teams. I'm sure that's what they're basing their opinions on. What do YOU think they're basing their opinions on?

 

As pointed out, it's not a scientific poll, but it works for the context that we need it to work.

 

Look at what he said. Why weren't White Sox fans and Cubs fans separated in that poll? Might it have mattered? Who knows? But a lot of AL players wouldn't have chosen "Chicago" because they don't think "best fans" when they consider the scum they deal with at the cell. (My. Dybas, we're looking at you.)

 

The poll means nothing, and if you think it means something, please tell me, who is the best manager? Surely I'd take the players word on that over best fans.

 

I have no idea what would happen if you seperated Chicago fans. I know that about 50% of National League players believe that St. Louis has the best fans. That's pretty decisive, especially in the context of what we're talking about.

 

I have my own opinion on who the best manager in baseball is. That has nothing to do with players giving home town discounts.

 

You don't think that the players might want to play for the "best manager"?

 

Sure, there are lots of reasons players choose certain team. What is the point?

[gus_dog]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/vance_the_cubs_fan/armstrong.jpg

THIS THREAD BLOWS!

Along with anyone who believes that any team has the best fans.

 

Tell it to the players, not me. They're the ones who believe it.

 

You use the poll for evidence in your argument, ergo you believe it too. You're buying into it.

Edited October 19, 2005 by gus_dog

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/vance_the_cubs_fan/armstrong.jpg

THIS THREAD BLOWS!

Along with anyone who believes that any team has the best fans.

 

Tell it to the players, not me. They're the ones who believe it.

 

You seem to believe it as well. If not why did you say it in your post long before you brought the poll into it.

 

You either believe it, or used it as a trolling comment. Either way, it still blows!

 

Why not go back and have a big circle jerk with capt-budman, big ver, and the others over at Cards Talk? :shrug:

[K-Town]

Wow!!! :shock: You really do buy into it!

 

Buy into what?

 

IMO, that poll is meaningless, within the context of whether or not a player signs below market. The real reasons, IMO, are:

 

1) Good organization

2) Good chance to get a WS ring

3) Good chance to play integral part (start)

 

Logic being that the money will be there, one way or the other (endorsements).

 

If you don't have the three items above, you are very unlikely to get a player to take below market to sign with you.

 

Is it not ironic that the Cardinal just happen to have an excellent organization and a good chance at the WS just about every year?

 

I'm not sure I understand the irony in it. Explain.

 

I don't disagree with your assessment.

[indifferent]

As a Cubs fan living in St. Louis and not blinded with red glasses as most Cards fans down here are, here is how it works. There is so little of anything going on in this city compared to other baseball towns during the summer that there is nothing else to do.

 

This is also the reason I don't think Mulder will sign with St. Louis after next year.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Wow!!! :shock: You really do buy into it!

 

Buy into what?

 

IMO, that poll is meaningless, within the context of whether or not a player signs below market. The real reasons, IMO, are:

 

1) Good organization

2) Good chance to get a WS ring

3) Good chance to play integral part (start)

 

Logic being that the money will be there, one way or the other (endorsements).

 

If you don't have the three items above, you are very unlikely to get a player to take below market to sign with you.

 

Is it not ironic that the Cardinal just happen to have an excellent organization and a good chance at the WS just about every year?

 

I think those are reasons to. I am also of the opinion players LOVE the first innning curtain calls even if they are silly. The fans aren't the "only" reason. Just one factor.