hahahhahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Look' date=' I'm not saying the Cardinals haven't had guys who publicly said they would take less money to play here. Heck, I live here, I know about Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen. But I just have to refute anyone (and I'm not necessarily saying you) who even pretends that type of stuff only happens to St. Louis. Need I remind you of Andre Dawson's blank check offer to the Cubs back in 1987? Anyway, for every Rolen there's a Renteria, who didn't want to accept less money. And don't forget Matt Morris turned down a lucrative offer from the Cardinals in 2004, but then got hurt so he had to sign the one year $2 million contract he now has. Had he not gotten hurt he wouldn't even be a Cardinal today. I think Carpenter took the best offer possible after coming off of surgery.

 

Yes, Pujols could've said nothing just as he did even though he was grossly underpaid after the 2003 season when he got a raise from $900,000 to $3 million. Plus, he, I'm sure, was fully aware of guys who had said they'd take less to stay here. I doubt he would've accepted a 7/$65 million contract just because he wanted to stay in St. Louis. It's a bargain for the Cardinals but Pujols didn't give them a hometown discount.[/quote']

 

I think that's reasonable. I know that other teams have players who are willing to take "home town discounts", just because of the famiarity, but St. Louis is well-known as the best baseball town, and I think that there are more players willing to take a bit of a financial hit to play there.

 

That is just an unsubstantiated myth.

 

 

Well, "best baseball town" might be a myth, but they have the best fans, which to me makes them the best baseball town.

 

Best fans is also a myth. You can't substantiate it. In your opinion, they might have the best fans, but you know what they say about opinions...

 

 

I can substantiate it, and it's not even that close. Unless the players' opinions don't matter to you.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/07/01/survey/

 

And what is the criteria used to formulate that opinion? Has surveys been conducted in subsequent and previous years to substantiate it?

 

That still does nothing to substantiate it. That is a very non-scientific poll.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?

 

You're the one who brought the crap up.

[indifferent]

Dusty Baker's voted the best manager in that poll. :?

[K-Town]

And what is the criteria used to formulate that opinion? Has surveys been conducted in subsequent and previous years to substantiate it?

 

That still does nothing to substantiate it. That is a very non-scientific poll.

 

Nope. That's all I've got. I just wanted you to know that it's not just "my opinion".

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?

 

You're the first Cardinal fan that actually agrees that they have the best fans. It's impossible to judge, and that survey is a joke. You have AL players who have never been to half the NL parks voting with the same weight as someone who spent 15 years in the NL. Not that the players are any definitive source as to who has the "best fans" anyway.

[gus_dog]

Dusty Baker's voted the best manager in that poll. :?

 

Well then, that certainly lends alot of credence to it. :shock: :roll:

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dusty Baker's voted the best manager in that poll. :?

 

The players have spoken. So if we use that as proof as Cardinal fans as the best fans, we also have to say Dusty Baker is the best manager.

 

You agree with that, K-town? (or don't you take the players word for it?)

[K-Town]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?

 

You're the one who brought the crap up.

 

In context of the discussion we were having. Not in the context of embracing anything.

[CoolHandLuke]

 

I can substantiate it, and it's not even that close. Unless the players' opinions don't matter to you.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/07/01/survey/

 

They also voted for Dusty as best manager so that tells me that the players know very little.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And what is the criteria used to formulate that opinion? Has surveys been conducted in subsequent and previous years to substantiate it?

 

That still does nothing to substantiate it. That is a very non-scientific poll.

 

Nope. That's all I've got. I just wanted you to know that it's not just "my opinion".

 

But it is still just an unsubstantiated opinion. Just because some others agree with your opinion, doesn't substatiate it.

 

I can find many people who believe in the existience of Nessie, but our opinions don't substantiate the fact.

[K-Town]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?

 

You're the first Cardinal fan that actually agrees that they have the best fans. It's impossible to judge, and that survey is a joke. You have AL players who have never been to half the NL parks voting with the same weight as someone who spent 15 years in the NL. Not that the players are any definitive source as to who has the "best fans" anyway.

 

 

If 2nd place were close, you'd have a legitimate grip. 46% (compared to 13% for 2nd place) is pretty decisive, in my opinion.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?

 

You're the one who brought the crap up.

 

In context of the discussion we were having. Not in the context of embracing anything.

 

If you don't agree with it, why bring it up. To agree with it and use it as a proof which you tried to do is synonomous with embracing it. :roll:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?

 

You're the first Cardinal fan that actually agrees that they have the best fans. It's impossible to judge, and that survey is a joke. You have AL players who have never been to half the NL parks voting with the same weight as someone who spent 15 years in the NL. Not that the players are any definitive source as to who has the "best fans" anyway.

 

 

If 2nd place were close, you'd have a legitimate grip. 46% (compared to 13% for 2nd place) is pretty decisive, in my opinion.

 

And what, 45% of those surveyed don't even go to Busch that year? Nevermind the fact that the player's aren't a definitive source, or that the poll is two and a half years old.

[biittner77]

One thing I forgot to mention. I have the HR ball that Pujols hit. I was walking from my car to school and saw a baseball lying on the ground with a huge rip in the cover.

 

and by the way. No team can claim to have the best fans. Any team that claims to have the best fans would therefore not have the best fans because the best fans would not by definition concern themselves with having that reputation and would therefore have little need to go around bragging about it.

[K-Town]

Dusty Baker's voted the best manager in that poll. :?

 

The players have spoken. So if we use that as proof as Cardinal fans as the best fans, we also have to say Dusty Baker is the best manager.

 

You agree with that, K-town? (or don't you take the players word for it?)

 

I agree that the players think that Dusty Baker is the best manager and that St. Louis has the best fans. That's what the players believe. It's their opinion. In the context of the discussion we were having, that's all that matters.

[K-Town]

One thing I forgot to mention. I have the HR ball that Pujols hit. I was walking from my car to school and saw a baseball lying on the ground with a huge rip in the cover.

 

and by the way. No team can claim to have the best fans. Any team that claims to have the best fans would therefore not have the best fans because the best fans would not by definition concern themselves with having that reputation and would therefore have little need to go around bragging about it.

 

 

The fans didn't say it. The players did.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

40% of these same players thought at the time the drug testing in place was adequate.

 

I'm not sure I'd trust their judgement on much.

 

So, K-town, do you agree with them that Dusty is the best manager, or do the players' opinions count only when you want them to?

[K-Town]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?

 

You're the first Cardinal fan that actually agrees that they have the best fans. It's impossible to judge, and that survey is a joke. You have AL players who have never been to half the NL parks voting with the same weight as someone who spent 15 years in the NL. Not that the players are any definitive source as to who has the "best fans" anyway.

 

 

If 2nd place were close, you'd have a legitimate grip. 46% (compared to 13% for 2nd place) is pretty decisive, in my opinion.

 

And what, 45% of those surveyed don't even go to Busch that year? Nevermind the fact that the player's aren't a definitive source, or that the poll is two and a half years old.

 

 

Did you read the footnote?

 

Nearly two thirds (65.2%) of players with 10 years' experience favored St. Louis, and 26.4% of AL players voted for St. Louis.

 

That means that, actually, an even HIGHER percentage of the NL players believe that they have the best fans.

 

The players are a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussin.

[goonys evil twin]

Dusty Baker's voted the best manager in that poll. :?

 

The players have spoken. So if we use that as proof as Cardinal fans as the best fans, we also have to say Dusty Baker is the best manager.

 

You agree with that, K-town? (or don't you take the players word for it?)

 

I agree that the players think that Dusty Baker is the best manager and that St. Louis has the best fans. That's what the players believe. It's their opinion. In the context of the discussion we were having, that's all that matters.

 

What was the context of the discussion, things that said neverland? Neither of those statements means a darn thing.

[gus_dog]

One thing I forgot to mention. I have the HR ball that Pujols hit. I was walking from my car to school and saw a baseball lying on the ground with a huge rip in the cover.

 

and by the way. No team can claim to have the best fans. Any team that claims to have the best fans would therefore not have the best fans because the best fans would not by definition concern themselves with having that reputation and would therefore have little need to go around bragging about it.

 

 

The fans didn't say it. The players did.

 

So, do you believe they are 'baseball's best fans'?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dusty Baker's voted the best manager in that poll. :?

 

The players have spoken. So if we use that as proof as Cardinal fans as the best fans, we also have to say Dusty Baker is the best manager.

 

You agree with that, K-town? (or don't you take the players word for it?)

 

I agree that the players think that Dusty Baker is the best manager and that St. Louis has the best fans. That's what the players believe. It's their opinion. In the context of the discussion we were having, that's all that matters.

 

So, what you're saying is that just because the players think something doesn't make it so.

 

Therefore, their opinion on best manager or best fans means nothing in deciding the truth or validity of those statements.

 

Therefore, we're back to the fact that the idea that the Cardinals have the best fans is an unsubstantiated myth and that St. Louis is the best baseball town is furthermore an unsubstantiated myth.

[K-Town]

40% of these same players thought at the time the drug testing in place was adequate.

 

I'm not sure I'd trust their judgement on much.

 

So, K-town, do you agree with them that Dusty is the best manager, or do the players' opinions count only when you want them to?

 

 

The drug issue has changed dramatically over the last 2 years. Fan support hasn't. I could see how the numbers would change if the drug testing was asked today, but I'm not sure why there would be much of a change of opinion on "best fans".

 

I'm not saying that I agree with them or disagree with them about anything. I'm just telling you what they believe, and in the context of what we were talking about, that's relevant.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

40% of these same players thought at the time the drug testing in place was adequate.

 

I'm not sure I'd trust their judgement on much.

 

So, K-town, do you agree with them that Dusty is the best manager, or do the players' opinions count only when you want them to?

 

I don't think it's Scientific poll or anything nor does it prove we are the “greatest baseball fans” but I think it does show a general attitude players have about st. louis and why they want to play there.

 

Hence, I think we get an above avg amount of "friendly" contracts.

Edited October 19, 2005 by CardsFanInChiTown

[K-Town]

One thing I forgot to mention. I have the HR ball that Pujols hit. I was walking from my car to school and saw a baseball lying on the ground with a huge rip in the cover.

 

and by the way. No team can claim to have the best fans. Any team that claims to have the best fans would therefore not have the best fans because the best fans would not by definition concern themselves with having that reputation and would therefore have little need to go around bragging about it.

 

 

The fans didn't say it. The players did.

 

So, do you believe they are 'baseball's best fans'?

 

I don't know. I'm not that familiar with fans of most other teams. I know some Red Sox fans, and they're terrific.

 

Players would be a better judge than I would, probably.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?

 

You're the first Cardinal fan that actually agrees that they have the best fans. It's impossible to judge, and that survey is a joke. You have AL players who have never been to half the NL parks voting with the same weight as someone who spent 15 years in the NL. Not that the players are any definitive source as to who has the "best fans" anyway.

 

 

If 2nd place were close, you'd have a legitimate grip. 46% (compared to 13% for 2nd place) is pretty decisive, in my opinion.

 

And what, 45% of those surveyed don't even go to Busch that year? Nevermind the fact that the player's aren't a definitive source, or that the poll is two and a half years old.

 

 

Did you read the footnote?

 

Nearly two thirds (65.2%) of players with 10 years' experience favored St. Louis, and 26.4% of AL players voted for St. Louis.

 

That means that, actually, an even HIGHER percentage of the NL players believe that they have the best fans.

 

The players are a difinitive source, in the context of what we were discussin.

 

Yes, and I also read the footnote that said that Chicago was second best among NL voters, and worst among AL voters. What happens if we separate Chicago, or New York for that matter?

 

And no, the players are not a definitive source. They have minimal interaction with fans of opposing teams. They aren't predisposed to objective analysis(as any "analyst" will prove through their work). YOU CAN'T TELL WHO HAS THE "BEST" FANS. And if you start claiming you are, you take away from those who claim that you are, because the best fans in the game certainly wouldn't be so self-righteous.