Balk Rule Question

[Outshined_One]

From tonight's Astros/Braves game.

 

With Andruw Jones on first and Andy LaRoche at bat with a 3-1 count, Roy Oswalt is ruled as never coming to a complete stop and is called for a balk. That much I get.

 

Yet, Oswalt threw the pitch, which was high, and Adam LaRoche was given first base. According to the ruling, even though he had been called for the balk, the pitch still counted. Meaning that if LaRoche had put it into play, it would have been a live ball.

 

Is this the correct ruling? Let's say that LaRoche had grounded out to the shortstop, who turned the double play. Would Jones have been out at second, even though he had been awarded seconnd?

Edited October 9, 2005 by Outshined_One

[nilodnayr]

From tonight's Astros/Braves game.

 

With Andruw Jones on first and Adam LaRoche at bat with a 3-1 count, Roy Oswalt is ruled as never coming to a complete stop and is called for a balk. That much I get.

 

Yet, Oswalt threw the pitch, which was high, and Adam LaRoche was given first base. According to the ruling, even though he had been called for the balk, the pitch still counted. Meaning that if LaRoche had put it into play, it would have been a live ball.

 

Is this the correct ruling? Let's say that LaRoche had grounded out to the shortstop, who turned the double play. Would Jones have been out at second, even though he had been awarded seconnd?

 

fixed...adam

[Outshined_One]

fixed...adam

 

Details, details.

 

Fixed. :P

[nilodnayr]

we will have to wait a few more years for andy but im sure we will be talking about him in the playoffs eventually.

[stitchface]

I believe the ball is dead if he puts it in play.

[Outshined_One]

I believe the ball is dead if he puts it in play.

 

See, that's what I would think. But the head of the umpires was asked about that particular ruling and he explained the scenario as I outlined it above.

[stitchface]

Yea, I guess it would have to be. So if he doesn't swing, is it automatically a ball? Otherwise that rule makes no sense.

[Outshined_One]

Yea, I guess it would have to be. So if he doesn't swing, is it automatically a ball? Otherwise that rule makes no sense.

 

If LaRoche swung and missed, or if the ball was in the zone, it would have been a strike.

[Sabermetrician]

I always interpreted a balk and a dead ball...no pitch. Usually the balk is called before the pitch is delievered, but even if the pitch is thrown, the pitch doesn't count, and nothing changes. I didn't see the game but from my knowledge these umps messed up according to the description of the game that was given.

[fromthestretch]

The rule actually is:

 

The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

[Derwood]

I hate balks. I mean, yes, you should have a rule where the pitcher can't "fake out" the batter or base runners, but then why is that a tiny little flinch gets called a balk, but a fake pickoff throw, or the infamous "third to first double fake" is legal? Isn't that trying to fake out base runners? Is the little flinch more distracting?

[fromthestretch]

I hate balks. I mean, yes, you should have a rule where the pitcher can't "fake out" the batter or base runners, but then why is that a tiny little flinch gets called a balk, but a fake pickoff throw, or the infamous "third to first double fake" is legal? Isn't that trying to fake out base runners? Is the little flinch more distracting?

 

I believe the original intent of the rule was to prevent pitchers from blatantly deceiving baserunners. However, it's gone far beyond that. Like you mentioned, there are little things that really cause no harm but are called as balks, such as moving the ball from your glove to your pitching hand while on the rubber. Hell, I believe that if you get blown off the mound by a strong gust of wind while in the set position, you will be called for a balk, even though everyone knows there was no intent to deceive the runner.

[Derwood]

I hate balks. I mean, yes, you should have a rule where the pitcher can't "fake out" the batter or base runners, but then why is that a tiny little flinch gets called a balk, but a fake pickoff throw, or the infamous "third to first double fake" is legal? Isn't that trying to fake out base runners? Is the little flinch more distracting?

 

I believe the original intent of the rule was to prevent pitchers from blatantly deceiving baserunners. However, it's gone far beyond that. Like you mentioned, there are little things that really cause no harm but are called as balks, such as moving the ball from your glove to your pitching hand while on the rubber. Hell, I believe that if you get blown off the mound by a strong gust of wind while in the set position, you will be called for a balk, even though everyone knows there was no intent to deceive the runner.

 

Or dropping the ball while on the rubber. I remember that happened to Wood a few times because when he looks in for the sign, he spins the ball around in his hand behind him. How is dropping the baseball deceiving the base runners (in that situation)?

[jyoung55]

The rule actually is:

 

The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

 

Right, so if he had put the ball in play and they had turned a DP that wouldn't have mattered. LaRoche would have been placed back in the batter's box with a 3-1 count and Jones would have been given 2nd. Its like an offsides in football... a free play you can take the good without having to worry about the bad. That is how I have always understood it anyways.