Here we are in the offseason, hopefully...

[RockTheIvy]

Jose Macias' Cubs career ended today. I was hoping for something more Macias-esque, like an emphatic strike out, but a lazy line drive does just fine. Can Hendry get on the phone to Jose and tell him to look for work elsewhere? Offseason time, here we go.

 

RTI is hoping for a Braves-Angels (RATINGS DELIGHT) world series, btw.

[Prior4CyYoung]

Jose Macias' Cubs career ended today. I was hoping for something more Macias-esque, like an emphatic strike out, but a lazy line drive does just fine. Can Hendry get on the phone to Jose and tell him to look for work elsewhere? Offseason time, here we go.

 

RTI is hoping for a Braves-Angels (RATINGS DELIGHT) world series, btw.

 

yeah I was thinking the exact same thing about bout macias and also agree with your ws teams I think that would be the ideal situation.

[Tracer Bullet]

Jose Macias' Cubs career ended today. I was hoping for something more Macias-esque, like an emphatic strike out, but a lazy line drive does just fine. Can Hendry get on the phone to Jose and tell him to look for work elsewhere? Offseason time, here we go.

 

RTI is hoping for a Braves-Angels (RATINGS DELIGHT) world series, btw.

 

yeah I was thinking the exact same thing about bout macias and also agree with your ws teams I think that would be the ideal situation.

 

How fitting is it that our 1-2 hitters made the final 2 outs of the season, leaving DLee on deck with the tying runners in scoring position. Perfect cap to this season.

[Backtobanks]

Jose Macias' Cubs career ended today. I was hoping for something more Macias-esque, like an emphatic strike out, but a lazy line drive does just fine. Can Hendry get on the phone to Jose and tell him to look for work elsewhere? Offseason time, here we go.

 

RTI is hoping for a Braves-Angels (RATINGS DELIGHT) world series, btw.

 

yeah I was thinking the exact same thing about bout macias and also agree with your ws teams I think that would be the ideal situation.

 

How fitting is it that our 1-2 hitters made the final 2 outs of the season, leaving DLee on deck with the tying runners in scoring position. Perfect cap to this season.

 

Especially when you #1 & #2 hitters are Patterson and Macias for the last game of the season.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Isn't Macias arbitration eligible? If so, how can that be when he's been in the league for 7 or 8 yrs? If the Cubs do not want him back, do they just release him or do they have to deny him arbitration? Can someone explain to me how Macias' arbitration might work?

[Prior4CyYoung]

Jose Macias' Cubs career ended today. I was hoping for something more Macias-esque, like an emphatic strike out, but a lazy line drive does just fine. Can Hendry get on the phone to Jose and tell him to look for work elsewhere? Offseason time, here we go.

 

RTI is hoping for a Braves-Angels (RATINGS DELIGHT) world series, btw.

 

yeah I was thinking the exact same thing about bout macias and also agree with your ws teams I think that would be the ideal situation.

 

How fitting is it that our 1-2 hitters made the final 2 outs of the season, leaving DLee on deck with the tying runners in scoring position. Perfect cap to this season.

 

yep typical baker move

[RockTheIvy]

I just about laughed my face off when the ESPN announcers said that the Astros season came down to this: Brad Lidge vs........JOSE MACIAS? GOD, I mean, Brad must have been pretty nervous.

[cubbieinexile]

Didn't watch the entire game. Flipped on the radio and it happened to be the final at bat of the season for the Cubs. Who is up but Macias, it would have been better if it was Neifi but he'll do. Pretty much sums up the Cub year.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway at first I was against getting Giles but if the Cubs can sign him for only 3 years it would probably be the best of a bad situation. If I was the GM I would put Murton in LF, Patterson* in center, Giles in right, and then have an infield of Furcal, Cedeno, ARam, DLee, and Barrett. Nothing revolutionary I know but I think it would be a good mix. With this team a good 4th OF is critical along with a good IF player or two. Macias and Perez will not do with this team.

 

I know Patterson burned a lot of bridges but he there isn't much out there and I wouldn't want the Cubs to just get rid of him by trading him for some useless minor league reliever. If they can deal as part of a package that helps the Cubs then yeah sure do it. But don't just get rid of him.

 

I look at this team and I see a core that can be good for the next 3 years. Which to me means they can give up some ground next year in order to develop some players and to lock themselves into a weak FA class. The Cubs in terms of age have some time to play with. TO that end if I could I would try to trade Maddux because I think his importance on next years team will be minimal. It would have been nice if some the Cubs prospects had gotten a signifcant look in the majors or if they hadn't got injured. Because of that I think they will keep Maddux around, well that and because the FA market is going to be expensive this year. Middle of the rotation starters salalries skyrocketed last year so the Cubs are going to definitely have to develop it. IT would be nice to get Millwood but not at the price he is going to be commanding.

[RockTheIvy]

Didn't watch the entire game. Flipped on the radio and it happened to be the final at bat of the season for the Cubs. Who is up but Macias, it would have been better if it was Neifi but he'll do. Pretty much sums up the Cub year.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway at first I was against getting Giles but if the Cubs can sign him for only 3 years it would probably be the best of a bad situation. If I was the GM I would put Murton in LF, Patterson* in center, Giles in right, and then have an infield of Furcal, Cedeno, ARam, DLee, and Barrett. Nothing revolutionary I know but I think it would be a good mix. With this team a good 4th OF is critical along with a good IF player or two. Macias and Perez will not do with this team.

 

I know Patterson burned a lot of bridges but he there isn't much out there and I wouldn't want the Cubs to just get rid of him by trading him for some useless minor league reliever. If they can deal as part of a package that helps the Cubs then yeah sure do it. But don't just get rid of him.

 

I look at this team and I see a core that can be good for the next 3 years. Which to me means they can give up some ground next year in order to develop some players and to lock themselves into a weak FA class. The Cubs in terms of age have some time to play with. TO that end if I could I would try to trade Maddux because I think his importance on next years team will be minimal. It would have been nice if some the Cubs prospects had gotten a signifcant look in the majors or if they hadn't got injured. Because of that I think they will keep Maddux around, well that and because the FA market is going to be expensive this year. Middle of the rotation starters salalries skyrocketed last year so the Cubs are going to definitely have to develop it. IT would be nice to get Millwood but not at the price he is going to be commanding.

 

How do you think Cedeno will perform next year? And do you think that Furcal's defense makes him more value than Nomar's (healthy, let's say) offense?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Isn't Macias arbitration eligible? If so, how can that be when he's been in the league for 7 or 8 yrs? If the Cubs do not want him back, do they just release him or do they have to deny him arbitration? Can someone explain to me how Macias' arbitration might work?

 

Macias is a free agent, he's out of arbitration eligibility.

[cubbieinexile]

Generally went it comes to rookie, youngsters, and prospects I take the worst case possible scenario. Okay maybe the mildly bad scenario. I don't expect much out of Cedeno, Murton, and Pie if it comes to that. Nor do I think the Cubs should either. At least when it comes to that years production, they should be more concerned with evaluating the player then worryng about a pitcher/batter matchup in the 33rd game.

 

Furcal to me is a speedier Rickey Gutierrez and I like Rickey. I think people should view Furcal not as a solution but as a player like Rickey just an average player, not as a star who is going to carry the team. Rickey did alright here because nothing was expected out of him. Rafael's value is his speed and defense, unfortunately those are two areas most effected by injury which to me is why it is so important next year to have a good bench, and players like Neifi and Macias would be killers.

 

Anyway I don't expect much of anything from the youngsters and would be tickled pink if they finished slightly below average offensively but showed that they were capable of sticking.

[RockTheIvy]

Generally went it comes to rookie, youngsters, and prospects I take the worst case possible scenario. Okay maybe the mildly bad scenario. I don't expect much out of Cedeno, Murton, and Pie if it comes to that. Nor do I think the Cubs should either. At least when it comes to that years production, they should be more concerned with evaluating the player then worryng about a pitcher/batter matchup in the 33rd game.

 

Furcal to me is a speedier Rickey Gutierrez and I like Rickey. I think people should view Furcal not as a solution but as a player like Rickey just an average player, not as a star who is going to carry the team. Rickey did alright here because nothing was expected out of him. Rafael's value is his speed and defense, unfortunately those are two areas most effected by injury which to me is why it is so important next year to have a good bench, and players like Neifi and Macias would be killers.

 

Anyway I don't expect much of anything from the youngsters and would be tickled pink if they finished slightly below average offensively but showed that they were capable of sticking.

 

Good Cubs fan approach! Jerome Walton and Dwight Smith only show up about once every 25 years. :lol:

[Dr. Cub]

Generally went it comes to rookie, youngsters, and prospects I take the worst case possible scenario. Okay maybe the mildly bad scenario. I don't expect much out of Cedeno, Murton, and Pie if it comes to that. Nor do I think the Cubs should either. At least when it comes to that years production, they should be more concerned with evaluating the player then worryng about a pitcher/batter matchup in the 33rd game.

 

Furcal to me is a speedier Rickey Gutierrez and I like Rickey. I think people should view Furcal not as a solution but as a player like Rickey just an average player, not as a star who is going to carry the team. Rickey did alright here because nothing was expected out of him. Rafael's value is his speed and defense, unfortunately those are two areas most effected by injury which to me is why it is so important next year to have a good bench, and players like Neifi and Macias would be killers.

 

Anyway I don't expect much of anything from the youngsters and would be tickled pink if they finished slightly below average offensively but showed that they were capable of sticking.

 

If he gets $8 million per, he most certainly should be viewed as a star. If he gets paid "Ricky" money, then and only then should he be viewed as a "ricky" type of player.

[cubbieinexile]

8 million dollars on a 100 million dollar team isn't much to worry about.

 

Ricky made 3.4 million on a 67.5 million dollar team. 5% of the teams payroll compared to 8%, not all that much.

[BigbadB]

8 million dollars on a 100 million dollar team isn't much to worry about.

 

Ricky made 3.4 million on a 67.5 million dollar team. 5% of the teams payroll compared to 8%, not all that much.

 

We have a lot of the same views. Although, I'd rather keep Nomar rather than signing Furcal. I'm not sure the Cubs could get 2 of the top 5 free agents this offseason, either.

 

I'd try to trade Maddux to San Diego. I'd do everything I could to sign Giles. I don't have a problem keeping Corey around if the best they can do is give him away. Pat Burrell was horrible in 2003. Horrible. How many Cub fans would have traded for Burrell midseason this year? Patterson could fix his problems with some other team and we'd all be kicking ourselves for helping him pack his bags.

 

Basically, I'd like to see the infield kept intact with Aramis, Nomar, Walker and Lee. I'm fine with Barrett and Blanco behind the plate. Giles and Murton in the corners with Patterson, Hairston and maybe Lofton all battling for playing time in center. Any remaining cash can be spent upgrading the pitching staff and bench.

[cubbieinexile]

If Nomar would sign another one or at most two year contract (though I would really perfer keeping him on a one year) then I would go with him instead of battling it out for Furcal. But I don't think he or any other team is going to let him get signed for a one year contract. There is too much new money out there for teams to spend. Heck I'm willing to bet little David Eckstein is going to fetch a fair amount of money.

 

I'm against Lofton for much the same reason I am against Giles but even more so. Age. Ordinarily a Lofton type player could be had for a one year contract, but this offseason I am not so sure. If Lofton could be had for a one year contract I say go with it and have him back up Patterson. But then your fourth and fifth OF'er are pretty weak hitters. With Blanco and whoever is subbing in the infield that looks to be one of the worst benches I have seen in a while. The Cubs need a Branyan type player but unfortunately he wants to start so they would have to get lucky to land him as a sub. The Cubs can't really keep Patterson, Hairston, and Lofton together on a team, someone would have to go to make room for a Hollandsworth/Grieve type player. Somebody with a little sock in his bat and can get on somewhat decent in short spells.

 

I also think that Preston Wilson can be signed pretty cheaply this year. If that happens you can then trade Patterson for almost anything. Of the two Hairston-Patterson I think it would have to be Patterson going, just because of the atmosphere and expectations. Wilson, Murton, Giles, Hairston, and take a flyer on a guy like Daryle Ward, Orlando Palmeiro, or even McCracken (with it being either McCracken or Hairston but not both). In the infield ARam, Nomar/Furcal and Cedeno (have one of them play second) Lee, and Barrett. With Russ Branyan as the corner infielder, Blanco as the back up catcher and some sort of Rich Aurilia/Easley type as the sub for the middle infield. Which then leaves one last spot for a youngster to tget some major league at bats and a 11 man pitching staff.

[Magnetic Curses]

If Nomar would sign another one or at most two year contract (though I would really perfer keeping him on a one year) then I would go with him instead of battling it out for Furcal. But I don't think he or any other team is going to let him get signed for a one year contract. There is too much new money out there for teams to spend. Heck I'm willing to bet little David Eckstein is going to fetch a fair amount of money.

 

I'm against Lofton for much the same reason I am against Giles but even more so. Age. Ordinarily a Lofton type player could be had for a one year contract, but this offseason I am not so sure. If Lofton could be had for a one year contract I say go with it and have him back up Patterson. But then your fourth and fifth OF'er are pretty weak hitters. With Blanco and whoever is subbing in the infield that looks to be one of the worst benches I have seen in a while. The Cubs need a Branyan type player but unfortunately he wants to start so they would have to get lucky to land him as a sub. The Cubs can't really keep Patterson, Hairston, and Lofton together on a team, someone would have to go to make room for a Hollandsworth/Grieve type player. Somebody with a little sock in his bat and can get on somewhat decent in short spells.

 

I also think that Preston Wilson can be signed pretty cheaply this year. If that happens you can then trade Patterson for almost anything. Of the two Hairston-Patterson I think it would have to be Patterson going, just because of the atmosphere and expectations. Wilson, Murton, Giles, Hairston, and take a flyer on a guy like Daryle Ward, Orlando Palmeiro, or even McCracken (with it being either McCracken or Hairston but not both). In the infield ARam, Nomar/Furcal and Cedeno (have one of them play second) Lee, and Barrett. With Russ Branyan as the corner infielder, Blanco as the back up catcher and some sort of Rich Aurilia/Easley type as the sub for the middle infield. Which then leaves one last spot for a youngster to tget some major league at bats and a 11 man pitching staff.

 

i think that if we sign lofton, there's no way that patterson's around. and giles isn't that old, he gets on base and keeps in excellent shape.

 

don't know what the fascination with furcal is, he's a big name that was overhyped coming into the league, has a cannon for an arm but sucks defensively. his obp is largely dependent upon his BA and he'll be overpriced.

 

and preston wilson gives me the absolute willies.

[cubbieinexile]

In an age of steroids Giles isn't that old. In an era without sterouds Giles is old. Giles could rapidly become an albatross depending on his contract length and handcuffing the Cubs much like the Sosa contract did this year. If they can pull a Alou like contract for 3 years with an option on the 4th, I could live with it. Though it would still scare me.

 

Furcal is Ricky with speed and the overpriced part does not matter. The Cubs are a large market team they can overspend if they want. Overpriced matters to teams like the Brewers or A's. Teams that have to be really efficient with their spending. Teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs can overspend to get what they want.

 

As for Preston Wilson I think he is going to be had for cheap. 3 or 4 years and around 7 to 8 million. I don't think he is going to see anything close to the contract he used to have. Preston away from RFK and playing half his games at wrigley will be an above average CF'er and the Cubs can afford to overpay for an above average CF'er.

[BigbadB]

In an age of steroids Giles isn't that old. In an era without sterouds Giles is old. Giles could rapidly become an albatross depending on his contract length and handcuffing the Cubs much like the Sosa contract did this year. If they can pull a Alou like contract for 3 years with an option on the 4th, I could live with it. Though it would still scare me.

 

Furcal is Ricky with speed and the overpriced part does not matter. The Cubs are a large market team they can overspend if they want. Overpriced matters to teams like the Brewers or A's. Teams that have to be really efficient with their spending. Teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs can overspend to get what they want.

 

As for Preston Wilson I think he is going to be had for cheap. 3 or 4 years and around 7 to 8 million. I don't think he is going to see anything close to the contract he used to have. Preston away from RFK and playing half his games at wrigley will be an above average CF'er and the Cubs can afford to overpay for an above average CF'er.

 

We aren't that far removed from the Christian Guzman 4/16m contract. CF is basically as hard or harder to fill than SS. Preston can probably get a better contract than 3/7 or 4/8.

[Magnetic Curses]

In an age of steroids Giles isn't that old. In an era without sterouds Giles is old. Giles could rapidly become an albatross depending on his contract length and handcuffing the Cubs much like the Sosa contract did this year. If they can pull a Alou like contract for 3 years with an option on the 4th, I could live with it. Though it would still scare me.

 

Furcal is Ricky with speed and the overpriced part does not matter. The Cubs are a large market team they can overspend if they want. Overpriced matters to teams like the Brewers or A's. Teams that have to be really efficient with their spending. Teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs can overspend to get what they want.

 

As for Preston Wilson I think he is going to be had for cheap. 3 or 4 years and around 7 to 8 million. I don't think he is going to see anything close to the contract he used to have. Preston away from RFK and playing half his games at wrigley will be an above average CF'er and the Cubs can afford to overpay for an above average CF'er.

 

overspending for an overrated furcal is not a great idea.

 

as the most outspoken critic of the possible beltran deal last season, i'm declaring furcal the most overrated FA of this offseason.

 

we don't need speed, we need OBP, furcal's is tied to his AVG, meaning, if he doesn't hit well, he's not getting on base. bring back nomar for cheap, at least his BA-contingent-OBP has been over .400 before.

 

giles is a must have, he's the one we overspend on. he's the consistent run-producer, OBP-bat we've been looking for. drop lofton in CF for a year and forget about corey, without even considering not starting murton in LF at least 140 times next season.

[sonofsamiam]

In an age of steroids Giles isn't that old. In an era without sterouds Giles is old. Giles could rapidly become an albatross depending on his contract length and handcuffing the Cubs much like the Sosa contract did this year. If they can pull a Alou like contract for 3 years with an option on the 4th, I could live with it. Though it would still scare me.

 

Furcal is Ricky with speed and the overpriced part does not matter. The Cubs are a large market team they can overspend if they want. Overpriced matters to teams like the Brewers or A's. Teams that have to be really efficient with their spending. Teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs can overspend to get what they want.

 

As for Preston Wilson I think he is going to be had for cheap. 3 or 4 years and around 7 to 8 million. I don't think he is going to see anything close to the contract he used to have. Preston away from RFK and playing half his games at wrigley will be an above average CF'er and the Cubs can afford to overpay for an above average CF'er.

 

overspending for an overrated furcal is not a great idea.

 

as the most outspoken critic of the possible beltran deal last season, i'm declaring furcal the most overrated FA of this offseason.

 

we don't need speed, we need OBP, furcal's is tied to his AVG, meaning, if he doesn't hit well, he's not getting on base. bring back nomar for cheap, at least his BA-contingent-OBP has been over .400 before.

 

giles is a must have, he's the one we overspend on. he's the consistent run-producer, OBP-bat we've been looking for. drop lofton in CF for a year and forget about corey, without even considering not starting murton in LF at least 140 times next season.

 

I agree with all of this, though I will assert that Furcal has value, and is probably not terribly overrated. Yes, he doesn't walk A LOT, but his OBP has been consistently in the .350 range for several years now. It doesn't really matter how he gets on, as long as he gets on at a decent clip like that. Plus, the steals (and high SB%), range, arm, and power (for a SS) are all nice as well.

 

I agree the Cubs shouldn't overspend on Furcal, and Giles is certainly a smarter way to go, at least for short-term value. But if they got Furcal, I doubt he'd bust. (Unless the police did the busting. Ha-ho.)

[thedaymen]

8 million dollars on a 100 million dollar team isn't much to worry about.

 

Ricky made 3.4 million on a 67.5 million dollar team. 5% of the teams payroll compared to 8%, not all that much.

 

That's a 60% increase. Thats a lot.

[cubbieinexile]

If I buy something at $1 and then buy something else at $3 thats an increase of extraordinary percentage but when it is all said and done it is still just 2 extra dollars.

 

On a 100 million dollar payroll spending 3 million dollars more for a $5 million dollar valued player isn't that big of a deal. Especially when the downside of not signing that overpriced players is to pick up somebody who is only worth 2 million or who is extremely risky.

 

Yes the Cubs could go out and sign a player at 4 million and have that player be worth 4 million. Or they could sign a player at 8 million and have him be worth 5 million. Personally I'll take the overpriced 5 million dollar guy because he adds more wins to the team and the Cubs can afford to pay extra for those extra wins. Again we are not talking about Pittsburgh or Milwaukee we don't have to pinch every penny. We can waste money to maximize wins.

[thedaymen]

If I buy something at $1 and then buy something else at $3 thats an increase of extraordinary percentage but when it is all said and done it is still just 2 extra dollars.

 

On a 100 million dollar payroll spending 3 million dollars more for a $5 million dollar valued player isn't that big of a deal. Especially when the downside of not signing that overpriced players is to pick up somebody who is only worth 2 million or who is extremely risky.

 

Yes the Cubs could go out and sign a player at 4 million and have that player be worth 4 million. Or they could sign a player at 8 million and have him be worth 5 million. Personally I'll take the overpriced 5 million dollar guy because he adds more wins to the team and the Cubs can afford to pay extra for those extra wins. Again we are not talking about Pittsburgh or Milwaukee we don't have to pinch every penny. We can waste money to maximize wins.

 

You talk like the Cubs don't already have a lot of wasted money on the roster. Without looking up the numbers, I'm guessing around $20 million for Kerry and Maddux? There's already enough waste without knowingly overpaying for mid-level players.

[cubbieinexile]

So then what do you get? Accurately priced lower level players? What would you rather have a player that adds 2 wins to your team at 2 million dollars or a player that adds 4 wins to your team but at 8 million dollars? Because that is what is out there. you have Nomar and Furcal who are going to get the bigger money. Eckstein who is probably going to get decent money and then dreg. The Cubs are not the twins, they can afford to overspend to get the extra wins. This team doesn't have to be efficient with their money especially with so much of it coming off the books, and even more so if they play Murton on left and Cedeno in the infield.