9/15 - Cardinals (Suppan) at Cubs (Prior) 7:05 PM CST WGN

[EricG]

CubsFanNotBudMan-

 

You obviously have not been watching baseball very long. Between you saying that if the game is called DLee loses a homer and that they can finish it tomorrow, I am at a loss.

I just don't know all the obscure rules but I have been watching baseball for a while (32 yo). Tell me the rule instead of telling me that I am wrong.

[illiniguy]

CubsFanNotBudMan-

 

You obviously have not been watching baseball very long. Between you saying that if the game is called DLee loses a homer and that they can finish it tomorrow, I am at a loss.

I just don't know all the obscure rules but I have been watching baseball for a while. tell me the rule instead of telling me that I am wrong.

I thought the same thing about the inning not counting as well. Apparently that isn't the case. Just seems odd it was a save situation, but we didn't get the last at bat at home.

[Soul]

And he somehow got that "league-hasn't-adjusted-to-you-yet" pitch down the stretch last year and prior to the line drive this year. Amazing.

 

fleeting moments. fleeting moments....

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I don't understand the mentality that says if a guy isn't healthy the whole year, he gets a pass on poor performance.

 

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't work for me. Players play partial seasons all the time and do well. It seems only Cub players come back from injury and forget how to play baseball until the following year's spring training (when they likely get hurt again and start the cycle all over again).

 

He had a compression fracture in his pitching elbow. Maybe that had an impact on his pitching. He's certainly not pitching as well as he has in the past (2003). He's also still usually able to make adjustments within a game, but the first inning of games has just killed him recently.

 

I'm willing to consider causes. Whether he gets a pass from you for any reason is obviously up to you.

 

Yeah, now you're just making excuses.

 

If he's not healthy enough to pitch, then he shouldn't pitch. It's been plenty of time since that injury. If he's not over it by now, he never will be.

 

I consider causes too. Want to know what 'causes' Mark to give up runs? Lack of pitch variety. All the rationalization in the world can't manufacture a third pitch out of thin air.

so what was his third pitch in 2003???

 

It was a great pitch. One that is incredibly difficult to hit. They call it the "league-hasn't-adjusted-to-you-yet" ball. Nasty, nasty stuff.

I thought he threw a change up before, but maybe I am mistaking.

 

He does. Obviously nowhere near as regularly as his slurve/offspeed pitch; I don't know if he still doesn't trust it like he did back in 2003.

[illiniguy]

I don't understand the mentality that says if a guy isn't healthy the whole year, he gets a pass on poor performance.

 

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't work for me. Players play partial seasons all the time and do well. It seems only Cub players come back from injury and forget how to play baseball until the following year's spring training (when they likely get hurt again and start the cycle all over again).

 

He had a compression fracture in his pitching elbow. Maybe that had an impact on his pitching. He's certainly not pitching as well as he has in the past (2003). He's also still usually able to make adjustments within a game, but the first inning of games has just killed him recently.

 

I'm willing to consider causes. Whether he gets a pass from you for any reason is obviously up to you.

 

Yeah, now you're just making excuses.

 

If he's not healthy enough to pitch, then he shouldn't pitch. It's been plenty of time since that injury. If he's not over it by now, he never will be.

 

I consider causes too. Want to know what 'causes' Mark to give up runs? Lack of pitch variety. All the rationalization in the world can't manufacture a third pitch out of thin air.

so what was his third pitch in 2003???

 

It was a great pitch. One that is incredibly difficult to hit. They call it the "league-hasn't-adjusted-to-you-yet" ball. Nasty, nasty stuff.

I thought he threw a change up before, but maybe I am mistaking.

 

He does. Obviously nowhere near as regularly as his slurve/offspeed pitch; I don't know if he still doesn't trust it like he did back in 2003.

could be he doesn't trust it since that is the pitch you would have to use the most to keep sharp and with his injury problems the last couple of years...

[CaliforniaRaisin]

And he somehow got that "league-hasn't-adjusted-to-you-yet" pitch down the stretch last year and prior to the line drive this year. Amazing.

 

fleeting moments. fleeting moments....

 

Given how dominant he was the last 5-6 starts last year makes me think it was more than just a fleeting moment.

 

And then there were 2 months in 2005, after which he hasn't been the same since a near-career-threatening injury. That's not my definition of fleeting.

[EricG]

the Cardinals clinch a tie for the division, maybe they'll be hungover tomorrow.

[Soul]

And he somehow got that "league-hasn't-adjusted-to-you-yet" pitch down the stretch last year and prior to the line drive this year. Amazing.

 

fleeting moments. fleeting moments....

 

Given how dominant he was the last 5 starts last year makes me think it was more than just a fleeting moment.

 

I suppose we have no choice but to hope that's the case.

[illiniguy]

the Cardinals clinch a tie for the division, maybe they'll be hungover tomorrow.

they got 27 outs but we didn't and we were threatening. How is that fair? I know we would have lost anyways but what the heck?

[Chris]

Looking over some of Prior's numbers comparing 2003 to 2005 I see that players are actually hitting him less for average and he's giving up fewer hits per 9 IP. His WHIP is up but that's only .06. The biggest difference is the number of HR's given up. In 55 fewer IP he's given up 8 more HRs, which of course will inflate his ERA.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And he somehow got that "league-hasn't-adjusted-to-you-yet" pitch down the stretch last year and prior to the line drive this year. Amazing.

 

fleeting moments. fleeting moments....

 

Given how dominant he was the last 5 starts last year makes me think it was more than just a fleeting moment.

 

I suppose we have no choice but to hope that's the case.

 

His last 5 starts of '04 and prior to the line drive in '05 is just under 100 consecutive innings.

[EricG]

looking up the rules rules on SUSPENDED GAMES

 

(5) Weather, if the game is called while an inning is in progress and before it is completed, and one of the following situations prevails: (i) The visiting team has scored one or more runs to tie the score, and the home team has not scored. (ii) The visiting team has scored one or more runs to take the lead, and the home team has not tied the score or retaken the lead. (b) Such games shall be known as suspended games. No game called because of a curfew, weather, or a time limit shall be a suspended game unless it has progressed far enough to have been a regulation game under the provisions of Rule 4.10. A game called under the provisions of 4.12(a), (3) or (4) shall be a suspended game at any time after it starts.

 

basically it says that since it was a game that was more than 5 innings and the game was called it is over since the Cardinals didn't tie or take the lead in their half of the inning.

[illiniguy]

looking up the rules rules on SUSPENDED GAMES

 

(5) Weather, if the game is called while an inning is in progress and before it is completed, and one of the following situations prevails: (i) The visiting team has scored one or more runs to tie the score, and the home team has not scored. (ii) The visiting team has scored one or more runs to take the lead, and the home team has not tied the score or retaken the lead. (b) Such games shall be known as suspended games. No game called because of a curfew, weather, or a time limit shall be a suspended game unless it has progressed far enough to have been a regulation game under the provisions of Rule 4.10. A game called under the provisions of 4.12(a), (3) or (4) shall be a suspended game at any time after it starts.

 

basically it says that since it was a game that was more than 5 innings and the game was called it is over since the Cardinals didn't tie or take the lead in their half of the inning.

say it was 1-0 on a solo homer in the first same spot now. Do they call it?

[NorthsideAvenger]

I don't understand the mentality that says if a guy isn't healthy the whole year, he gets a pass on poor performance.

 

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't work for me. Players play partial seasons all the time and do well. It seems only Cub players come back from injury and forget how to play baseball until the following year's spring training (when they likely get hurt again and start the cycle all over again).

 

He had a compression fracture in his pitching elbow. Maybe that had an impact on his pitching. He's certainly not pitching as well as he has in the past (2003). He's also still usually able to make adjustments within a game, but the first inning of games has just killed him recently.

 

I'm willing to consider causes. Whether he gets a pass from you for any reason is obviously up to you.

 

Yeah, now you're just making excuses.

 

If he's not healthy enough to pitch, then he shouldn't pitch. It's been plenty of time since that injury. If he's not over it by now, he never will be.

 

I consider causes too. Want to know what 'causes' Mark to give up runs? Lack of pitch variety. All the rationalization in the world can't manufacture a third pitch out of thin air.

so what was his third pitch in 2003???

 

Ha ha, IG

 

You're welcome to your take, Soul. I'm welcome not to agree with it ... which I don't.

 

Prior's not sharp right now. Still not ready to call him washed up just yet.

No I don't think he is done, I just don't think he has gotten any better in almost 4 years with us. In fact I would argue he has regressed. As has Kerry Wood. Thus I think it is obvious that the blmae should fall more on the organization than the player. But, we all know from the last year it was probably the announcers fault.

 

Prior washed up at 24 yrs old? What people don't realize (especially the non-Cubs fans) is that Cubs have one of the most crappiest Pitching Coaches in America. What this Cubs staff needs is a FRESH voice, and I would love the Cubs if they could land either Bud Black, Mike Maddux (not b/c of his brother, but because he is a HECKUVA pc) or Rick Peterson. The pitching staff has gone staled, and thus they need a new voice. And if they get a NEW voice, it wouldn't surprise me to the staff take off.

[Laura]

I don't understand the mentality that says if a guy isn't healthy the whole year, he gets a pass on poor performance.

 

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't work for me. Players play partial seasons all the time and do well. It seems only Cub players come back from injury and forget how to play baseball until the following year's spring training (when they likely get hurt again and start the cycle all over again).

 

Yeah, now you're just making excuses.

 

If he's not healthy enough to pitch, then he shouldn't pitch. It's been plenty of time since that injury. If he's not over it by now, he never will be.

 

I consider causes too. Want to know what 'causes' Mark to give up runs? Lack of pitch variety. All the rationalization in the world can't manufacture a third pitch out of thin air.

 

Never called him washed up.

 

I'm just prepared to adjust my assessment of his ability down a notch

 

So he

 

forgot how to play baseball until next year because he was injured and is a Cub

 

he'll be injured again next year when the cycle starts all over again

 

he's never going to pitch well again, since if he's not over his injuries by now, he never will be

 

and he can't manufacture a third pitch out of thin air.

 

Are those not direct quotes?

 

But then you say he's not washed up? All of that adds up to a "notch down" in your book?

 

O-KAY then. Generous grading scale you have, indeed.

 

If I were going to argue those points, I'd argue he's over and done with. TRADE HIM.

 

Of course, I don't think he is.

 

I wouldn't scream over trading him in a very good deal, but I don't know that I trust the Cubs to strike that deal. I'll still follow him.