Dubois, Cedeno, Murton....who's next?

[TheDude]

Why is everyone opposed to the "more power" statement with regards to Murton throwing out hall of fame (or near HoF) type examples to support their argument?

 

Names like Gwynn, Rose, Grace, and Ichiro are exceptions to the rule and it only hurts an argument for Murton's presence in the bigs if anybody tosses these names around as examples for why Murton doesn't "need" power.

 

Murton is not one of these guys. He is closer to Randy Winn or So Taguchi, who are quality players that have a tough time holding down a starter's role in the bigs for all the same reasons Murton will.

 

It is true that players don't need power at a classic power position, but they do need it elsewhere. So a team can away with playing a lower power corner outfielder if they get above average power out of traditional non-power positions (maybe 2B and SS).

 

The promising thing for Murton is that the Cubs have been keeping above average power around at 2B and SS for a few years, and have been at the top of Infield HR list for a few years. If guys like Walker and Garciaparra are around next year, maybe Murton can get a shot (but probably not).

 

But Murton will have to develop more power to stick in the bigs long-term, or he'll have to be a quirky fit in a line-up stacked with big power elsewhere.

[erik316wttn]

Why is everyone opposed to the "more power" statement with regards to Murton throwing out hall of fame (or near HoF) type examples to support their argument?

 

Names like Gwynn, Rose, Grace, and Ichiro are exceptions to the rule and it only hurts an argument for Murton's presence in the bigs if anybody tosses these names around as examples for why Murton doesn't "need" power.

 

Murton is not one of these guys. He is closer to Randy Winn or So Taguchi, who are quality players that have a tough time holding down a starter's role in the bigs for all the same reasons Murton will.

 

It is true that players don't need power at a classic power position, but they do need it elsewhere. So a team can away with playing a lower power corner outfielder if they get above average power out of traditional non-power positions (maybe 2B and SS).

 

The promising thing for Murton is that the Cubs have been keeping above average power around at 2B and SS for a few years, and have been at the top of Infield HR list for a few years. If guys like Walker and Garciaparra are around next year, maybe Murton can get a shot (but probably not).

 

But Murton will have to develop more power to stick in the bigs long-term, or he'll have to be a quirky fit in a line-up stacked with big power elsewhere.

 

As I stated before, would it be that bad if the Cubs got away from the home run? We have Lee, we have Ramirez. Nomar is a good hitter, Walker is good, Barrett can hit you 25 homers per year, and maybe we can trade for a good outfielder in the offseason.

 

What this team needs is not another power hitter, but a guy with a high ba/obp who we can build the lineup around.

[TheDude]

As I stated before, would it be that bad if the Cubs got away from the home run? We have Lee, we have Ramirez. Nomar is a good hitter, Walker is good, Barrett can hit you 25 homers per year, and maybe we can trade for a good outfielder in the offseason.

 

What this team needs is not another power hitter, but a guy with a high ba/obp who we can build the lineup around.

I agree with you. I lobbied for Randy Winn in the off-season.

 

My comments were not supporting or dismissing Murton's validity in the lineup. They were with regards to the power/non-power argument.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why is everyone opposed to the "more power" statement with regards to Murton throwing out hall of fame (or near HoF) type examples to support their argument?

 

Names like Gwynn, Rose, Grace, and Ichiro are exceptions to the rule and it only hurts an argument for Murton's presence in the bigs if anybody tosses these names around as examples for why Murton doesn't "need" power.

 

Murton is not one of these guys. He is closer to Randy Winn or So Taguchi, who are quality players that have a tough time holding down a starter's role in the bigs for all the same reasons Murton will.

 

It is true that players don't need power at a classic power position, but they do need it elsewhere. So a team can away with playing a lower power corner outfielder if they get above average power out of traditional non-power positions (maybe 2B and SS).

 

The promising thing for Murton is that the Cubs have been keeping above average power around at 2B and SS for a few years, and have been at the top of Infield HR list for a few years. If guys like Walker and Garciaparra are around next year, maybe Murton can get a shot (but probably not).

 

But Murton will have to develop more power to stick in the bigs long-term, or he'll have to be a quirky fit in a line-up stacked with big power elsewhere.

 

As I stated before, would it be that bad if the Cubs got away from the home run? We have Lee, we have Ramirez. Nomar is a good hitter, Walker is good, Barrett can hit you 25 homers per year, and maybe we can trade for a good outfielder in the offseason.

 

What this team needs is not another power hitter, but a guy with a high ba/obp who we can build the lineup around.

 

Power does not equal Home runs. There's cause for concern that Murton will not hit enough non-singles to be considered a productive corner outfielder.

[erik316wttn]

Why is everyone opposed to the "more power" statement with regards to Murton throwing out hall of fame (or near HoF) type examples to support their argument?

 

Names like Gwynn, Rose, Grace, and Ichiro are exceptions to the rule and it only hurts an argument for Murton's presence in the bigs if anybody tosses these names around as examples for why Murton doesn't "need" power.

 

Murton is not one of these guys. He is closer to Randy Winn or So Taguchi, who are quality players that have a tough time holding down a starter's role in the bigs for all the same reasons Murton will.

 

It is true that players don't need power at a classic power position, but they do need it elsewhere. So a team can away with playing a lower power corner outfielder if they get above average power out of traditional non-power positions (maybe 2B and SS).

 

The promising thing for Murton is that the Cubs have been keeping above average power around at 2B and SS for a few years, and have been at the top of Infield HR list for a few years. If guys like Walker and Garciaparra are around next year, maybe Murton can get a shot (but probably not).

 

But Murton will have to develop more power to stick in the bigs long-term, or he'll have to be a quirky fit in a line-up stacked with big power elsewhere.

 

As I stated before, would it be that bad if the Cubs got away from the home run? We have Lee, we have Ramirez. Nomar is a good hitter, Walker is good, Barrett can hit you 25 homers per year, and maybe we can trade for a good outfielder in the offseason.

 

What this team needs is not another power hitter, but a guy with a high ba/obp who we can build the lineup around.

 

Power does not equal Home runs. There's cause for concern that Murton will not hit enough non-singles to be considered a productive corner outfielder.

 

Well, I guess there's only one way to find that out, isn't there?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why is everyone opposed to the "more power" statement with regards to Murton throwing out hall of fame (or near HoF) type examples to support their argument?

 

Names like Gwynn, Rose, Grace, and Ichiro are exceptions to the rule and it only hurts an argument for Murton's presence in the bigs if anybody tosses these names around as examples for why Murton doesn't "need" power.

 

Murton is not one of these guys. He is closer to Randy Winn or So Taguchi, who are quality players that have a tough time holding down a starter's role in the bigs for all the same reasons Murton will.

 

It is true that players don't need power at a classic power position, but they do need it elsewhere. So a team can away with playing a lower power corner outfielder if they get above average power out of traditional non-power positions (maybe 2B and SS).

 

The promising thing for Murton is that the Cubs have been keeping above average power around at 2B and SS for a few years, and have been at the top of Infield HR list for a few years. If guys like Walker and Garciaparra are around next year, maybe Murton can get a shot (but probably not).

 

But Murton will have to develop more power to stick in the bigs long-term, or he'll have to be a quirky fit in a line-up stacked with big power elsewhere.

 

As I stated before, would it be that bad if the Cubs got away from the home run? We have Lee, we have Ramirez. Nomar is a good hitter, Walker is good, Barrett can hit you 25 homers per year, and maybe we can trade for a good outfielder in the offseason.

 

What this team needs is not another power hitter, but a guy with a high ba/obp who we can build the lineup around.

 

Power does not equal Home runs. There's cause for concern that Murton will not hit enough non-singles to be considered a productive corner outfielder.

 

Well, I guess there's only one way to find that out, isn't there?

 

That's true, but all I'm saying is that Murton isn't an ideal corner OF, and we shouldn't necessarily be trying to build the roster around him as a starter. That's all.

[NewUserName]

What his limitations are are not the question. The fact is he has been more productive that any Cub OF this year. Yes it is a small sample, so it is hard to project what kind of player he will be. He has though EARNED the chance to play on a more regular. Instead the Cubs send him to the minor leagues. Which says that production is not the basis for playing time. So production is why they keep some young players from playing, but when they produce they come up with other reasons not to play them. At the end you just cannot come up with a valid arguement that not only should he still be on the team he should be starting. From there you can start argueing IF he has future value. Until then all other arguement on the matter is Moot.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What his limitations are are not the question. The fact is he has been more productive that any Cub OF this year. Yes it is a small sample, so it is hard to project what kind of player he will be. He has though EARNED the chance to play on a more regular. Instead the Cubs send him to the minor leagues. Which says that production is not the basis for playing time. So production is why they keep some young players from playing, but when they produce they come up with other reasons not to play them. At the end you just cannot come up with a valid arguement that not only should he still be on the team he should be starting. From there you can start argueing IF he has future value. Until then all other arguement on the matter is Moot.

 

Yes, I said in a previous post in this thread that Murton deserved to play everyday at the big league level because of his performance thus far. In my last post I was speaking about after the season, and going forward from there.

[frostwyrm]

Murton's production is fine at a corner because his low price tag lets us spend more elsewhere. There are lots of needs to fill and limited $. If next season is a bust it probably won't be due to Murton playing LF at the league minimum.

[Mike Aller]

Going by Rate and RAR, Dubois is as good if not a better fielder than Hollandsworth, only slightly below average. True story.

 

That is not saying much. Hollandsworth is clearly not an everday player. Dusty gave Dubois a better chance at earning a job, than both Cedeno and Murton. He also had a chance in Cleveland to grab an everyday spot as DH, he just hasn't taken advantage of his opportunities.

I don't quite think he was going to take Hafner's spot.

[Shawon12]

come on. Dubois is a stiff defensively and struggled hitting ML pitching. It's ignorant to say the Cubs didn't give him a shot. They did what any other team would do.

[CUBZ99]

Going by Rate and RAR, Dubois is as good if not a better fielder than Hollandsworth, only slightly below average. True story.

 

That is not saying much. Hollandsworth is clearly not an everday player. Dusty gave Dubois a better chance at earning a job, than both Cedeno and Murton. He also had a chance in Cleveland to grab an everyday spot as DH, he just hasn't taken advantage of his opportunities.

I don't quite think he was going to take Hafner's spot.

 

 

Once again, Wasn't Hafner hurt when Dubois was acquired? Dubois got almost 50 Abs with the Indians and struck out more than half of them. The way he was playing, he wasn't going to take anybody's spot and didn't even warrant staying on their 25 man roster.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Going by Rate and RAR, Dubois is as good if not a better fielder than Hollandsworth, only slightly below average. True story.

 

That is not saying much. Hollandsworth is clearly not an everday player. Dusty gave Dubois a better chance at earning a job, than both Cedeno and Murton. He also had a chance in Cleveland to grab an everyday spot as DH, he just hasn't taken advantage of his opportunities.

I don't quite think he was going to take Hafner's spot.

 

 

Once again, Wasn't Hafner hurt when Dubois was acquired? Dubois got almost 50 Abs with the Indians and struck out more than half of them. The way he was playing, he wasn't going to take anybody's spot and didn't even warrant staying on their 25 man roster.

 

Hafner had a concussion, but I'm not sure how that coincided with the Dubois trade. He was also platooned with Liefer for his sub-50 PA's as an Indian. That's not much of a shot at all.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

come on. Dubois is a stiff defensively and struggled hitting ML pitching. It's ignorant to say the Cubs didn't give him a shot. They did what any other team would do.

 

Any other ML team would bench him over a veteran who is a similar fielder and was hitting worse than him?

[frostwyrm]

All the people who don't want Murton starting next year might ask what other player could give us better bang for our buck. Do we really want to blow $5M on another Burnitz type, or pay Murton the league minimum?