I'd like some Cardinal fans' opinions...

[K-Town]

I might be mistaken, but didn't Morris throw BEHIND Kerry Wood once? Granted I'm sure Kerry deserved it. I'm not saying Kerry doesn't throw up and in occasionally. But you have to look at how wild he can be sometimes before you judge him. The majority of his HBP's have been curve balls. You don't try to bean someone with a curve ball. And on a bunt, you always try to get it to the top, inside corner of the zone. That's how you get them to pop it up. And on a sacrifice bunt, the batter usually won't pull the bat back because the runner is ready to run right away. I don't think throwing up and in on Morris' bunt was all that bad.

 

Both teams are at fault in the bean ball war. Yeah, Cub fans don't like Morris, but I actually hate Jim Edmonds more. Cards fans have good reason to dislike Zambrano. But he's been better lately. He hasn't lost his cool since I believe one of his first starts this year.

 

I don't recall Morris EVER throwing behind Kerry Wood.

 

I agree, there's bad blood both ways.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is with Jim Edmonds.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I don't recall Morris EVER throwing behind Kerry Wood.

 

I agree, there's bad blood both ways.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is with Jim Edmonds.

 

My problem with Edmonds is the hotdogging. He's been accused since he was on the Angels of slowing down on fly balls just so that he can dive and make the highlight reels. I can't stand that. That's my main reason for disliking him. The eyeliner stuff is all just icing on the hate cake.

 

While he's a great centerfielder, I think he's a little overrated defensively because he turns routine fly balls into diving catches. And then ESPN hypes him up for it when guys like Andrew Jones would've been waiting under the ball.

 

And like I said, I may have been wrong about the whole Morris throwing behind Wood thing. But I thought I heard somewhere that he did. If I'm wrong, then I'm apologize.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

I've never heard that(or forgotten it) about Morris, the quote about professionalism. Most that I've run into don't like him for throwing at players' heads.

 

Whose head did he throw at? Did he hit a player in the head?

 

He missed Lee in the head, and may have thrown at Patterson's head at well. Definitely Lee though, and there's almost no doubt it was intentional.

 

Larussa doesn't tolerate his players throwing at other players' heads, plain and simple. Nor does he tolerate other pitchers throwing at his players' heads.

 

Kerry Wood threw at Morris' head THREE TIMES when Morris was in his most vulerable position (trying to bunt). When Morris came up the first time, Wood threw at him TWICE (the 1st pitch was at his mid-section, as he tried to bunt....... the 2nd pitch was directly at his head, as he tried to bunt again). Morris took the high road when Wood came to bat, and promptly struck him out on 3 pitches. Morris' next at-bat was a replay of the first. He tried to bunt Matheny over, and Wood threw the pitch directly at his head. The Wrigley fans cheered wildly.

 

I don't care what front LaRussa wants to put out there, it's way too much a coincidence that he just missed Lee's head, who's height puts his head WAY out of the zone, in a series with beanballs. I never said anyone else was above blame.

 

As far as Wood goes, I don't remember the incident. However, there's a slight difference between Matt Morris crouched over to bunt, and Derrek Lee hitting away. Also, in some situations, that's what players are taught to do when a player squares around, is to throw it at their head. I don't recall the situation, so I don't know if it was appropriate.

 

My post was regarding Morris, someone asked why Cubs fans don't like him, and I explained why. Please don't try and misdirect the argument by attempting to indict the Cubs/Wood. I never claimed any innocence or guilt on their part that would make it appropriate to bring them up.

[K-Town]

I don't recall Morris EVER throwing behind Kerry Wood.

 

I agree, there's bad blood both ways.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is with Jim Edmonds.

 

My problem with Edmonds is the hotdogging. He's been accused since he was on the Angels of slowing down on fly balls just so that he can dive and make the highlight reels. I can't stand that. That's my main reason for disliking him. The eyeliner stuff is all just icing on the hate cake.

 

While he's a great centerfielder, I think he's a little overrated defensively because he turns routine fly balls into diving catches. And then ESPN hypes him up for it when guys like Andrew Jones would've been waiting under the ball.

 

Jones is 7 years younger than Edmonds, so he should cover a little more ground. Nontheless, things like range factor, zone rating, etc. tell us that they're pretty even. When Edmonds was 27 (Andruw's current age), Edmonds was FAR better than Jones is now. Edmonds typically throws out more baserunners than Jones, also. They're both great. And I don't disagree that Edmonds can be pretty flashy at times, but his results are seconds to none.

[K-Town]

C-Patterson - I don't recall Morris throwing at Derrek Lee's head. Was it this year? Is there a link? (Because I can provide links of the Morris/Wood incident). I honestly don't recall the Matt Morris / Derrek Lee controversy. IF Morris threw at Wood's head, it may be directly related to Wood throwing at him THREE TIMES in one game. That's why it's appropriate to bring it up, in my opinion. The incidents may be related, but I'd need more specifics on the Derrek Lee incident.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Oh, I won't argue that he gets results. But even when he was Jones' age he was being accused of purposely slowing down so he could make the highlight reel by diving. That's what gets me. I'm not going to argue that he's an amazing center fielder.

 

The throwing out more runners part isn't really an issue I don't think. I don't even know how good Jones' arm is, but often times when a guy has a killer arm, he has less outfield assists than someone with a weaker arm because guys are less likely to run on a guy with a killer arm. They'll see him pull up with with ball, and then they'll just hold at third when they'd normally try to score. Guys will great arms sometimes get less chances to throw people out because of this.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Morris threw behind Corey Patterson, not Kerry Wood. I was mistaken.

 

From a Northwest Herald article:

Lobbying: Baker said he had not heard anything from the league offices regarding Kerry Wood, Carlos Zambrano or LaTroy Hawkins' suspension appeals. What he would like to hear, though, is why St. Louis' Matt Morris has not been suspended for intentionally throwing behind Corey Patterson.

 

"I'm curious what happened to Morris," Baker said. "There has to be something, don't you think? I've seen guys get fined and suspended when they weren't thrown out of the game for hitting someone. I'm not (league disciplinarian) Bob Watson or the commissioner, but something's got to happen when you come out and say you tried to hit somebody."

 

It is the second time in a week Baker has wondered aloud why Morris has not been suspended.

 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

C-Patterson - I don't recall Morris throwing at Derrek Lee's head. Was it this year? Is there a link? (Because I can provide links of the Morris/Wood incident). I honestly don't recall the Matt Morris / Derrek Lee controversy. IF Morris threw at Wood's head, it may be directly related to Wood throwing at him THREE TIMES in one game. That's why it's appropriate to bring it up, in my opinion. The incidents may be related, but I'd need more specifics on the Derrek Lee incident.

 

I never mentioned Wood being thrown at by Morris.

 

It was last year. Here's a link to the Game Thread. Apparently the Cards accused the Cubs of stealing signs, and Morris retaliated by throwing at Lee's head. Lee also had some "colorful" things to say during the incident to LaRussa.

[K-Town]

Oh, I won't argue that he gets results. But even when he was Jones' age he was being accused of purposely slowing down so he could make the highlight reel by diving. That's what gets me. I'm not going to argue that he's an amazing center fielder.

 

The throwing out more runners part isn't really an issue I don't think. I don't even know how good Jones' arm is, but often times when a guy has a killer arm, he has less outfield assists than someone with a weaker arm because guys are less likely to run on a guy with a killer arm. They'll see him pull up with with ball, and then they'll just hold at third when they'd normally try to score. Guys will great arms sometimes get less chances to throw people out because of this.

 

Vlad is probably the guy with the best arm in baseball today, and he throws out an amazing number of runners. He's easily thrown out more runners than any other outfielder on his team. Same goes for Jose Guillen of Washington. In almost every case, the outfielder with the best arm is going to have the most assists.

 

I know that Edmonds has been accused of alot of things. That doesn't change the fact that he's been the best centerfielder in baseball for years, and is still right up there. For that reason, I don't think it's fair to say that he's "overrated".

[K-Town]

Morris threw behind Corey Patterson, not Kerry Wood. I was mistaken.

 

From a Northwest Herald article:

Lobbying: Baker said he had not heard anything from the league offices regarding Kerry Wood, Carlos Zambrano or LaTroy Hawkins' suspension appeals. What he would like to hear, though, is why St. Louis' Matt Morris has not been suspended for intentionally throwing behind Corey Patterson.

 

"I'm curious what happened to Morris," Baker said. "There has to be something, don't you think? I've seen guys get fined and suspended when they weren't thrown out of the game for hitting someone. I'm not (league disciplinarian) Bob Watson or the commissioner, but something's got to happen when you come out and say you tried to hit somebody."

 

It is the second time in a week Baker has wondered aloud why Morris has not been suspended.

 

 

I've got no problem with Morris throwing behind a hitter, or even throwing AT a hitter. It's throwing at a hitter's head that I have a problem with.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

C-Patterson - I don't recall Morris throwing at Derrek Lee's head. Was it this year? Is there a link? (Because I can provide links of the Morris/Wood incident). I honestly don't recall the Matt Morris / Derrek Lee controversy. IF Morris threw at Wood's head, it may be directly related to Wood throwing at him THREE TIMES in one game. That's why it's appropriate to bring it up, in my opinion. The incidents may be related, but I'd need more specifics on the Derrek Lee incident.

 

Last year, can't recall the actual game Morris threw at Lee twice. The first was way up and in and the second was behind him. It was pretty clear the intent of the pitches.

[K-Town]

C-Patterson - I don't recall Morris throwing at Derrek Lee's head. Was it this year? Is there a link? (Because I can provide links of the Morris/Wood incident). I honestly don't recall the Matt Morris / Derrek Lee controversy. IF Morris threw at Wood's head, it may be directly related to Wood throwing at him THREE TIMES in one game. That's why it's appropriate to bring it up, in my opinion. The incidents may be related, but I'd need more specifics on the Derrek Lee incident.

 

I never mentioned Wood being thrown at by Morris.

 

It was last year. Here's a link to the Game Thread. Apparently the Cards accused the Cubs of stealing signs, and Morris retaliated by throwing at Lee's head. Lee also had some "colorful" things to say during the incident to LaRussa.

 

If Morris was indeed throwing at Derrek Lee's head, then I suspect (and hope) that he heard about it from Larussa. Again, I don't recall the incident. Thanks for providing the link to the game thread.