.500

[moorecg]

I've basically given up on any post season for this team...there is absolutely no reason to think otherwise. That being said...I'd really like to at least win 82 games...do they have the heart to do it? I know that would take playing 4+ games over .500 for the rest of the year and they've done nothing to show that they can accomplish that. I think its important (I'm not sure why) to at least have a winning record...the last two years were the first in my lifetime that they've won in back to back seasons (I'm almost 30)....I'd like to at least keep in positive ground...

 

Thoughts on their ability to at least do that?

[Notorious]

I've basically given up on any post season for this team...there is absolutely no reason to think otherwise. That being said...I'd really like to at least win 82 games...do they have the heart to do it? I know that would take playing 4+ games over .500 for the rest of the year and they've done nothing to show that they can accomplish that. I think its important (I'm not sure why) to at least have a winning record...the last two years were the first in my lifetime that they've won in back to back seasons (I'm almost 30)....I'd like to at least keep in positive ground...

 

Thoughts on their ability to at least do that?

 

No longer should we settle for them being just mediocre. Do you think fans of the Yankees or Red Sox just want their team to be over .500? That is having low aspirations. While I agree about making it to the postseason, I could care less what they do from here on out. Sure if they make the postseason great, over .500 and no playoffs, they might as well be the Devil Rays.

[moorecg]

I've basically given up on any post season for this team...there is absolutely no reason to think otherwise. That being said...I'd really like to at least win 82 games...do they have the heart to do it? I know that would take playing 4+ games over .500 for the rest of the year and they've done nothing to show that they can accomplish that. I think its important (I'm not sure why) to at least have a winning record...the last two years were the first in my lifetime that they've won in back to back seasons (I'm almost 30)....I'd like to at least keep in positive ground...

 

Thoughts on their ability to at least do that?

 

No longer should we settle for them being just mediocre. Do you think fans of the Yankees or Red Sox just want their team to be over .500? That is having low aspirations. While I agree about making it to the postseason, I could care less what they do from here on out. Sure if they make the postseason great, over .500 and no playoffs, they might as well be the Devil Rays.

 

I don't think, at this point, hoping for above .500 is settling for mediocrity...its hoping for them playing much better than they've shown they can do to date....that being said...I understand your point...I just think its important to continue winning...that, and to get Johnny Damon, Adam Dunn, bullpen help and maybe a starter who can go a full season in the offseason. ...oh, and a new manager

[frostwyrm]

If the Cubs fall out of the race I'd like to see some kids play every day and some veterans traded or released. Building for the future is far more important than winning 82 in the present.

[wastra]

.500 from THIS payroll?

 

If I were GM, I'd clean house ASAP. Manager, about half the roster (or more), coaches, you name it. And that's just to try to save my OWN job.

[AcesHigh]

If we can make it back to .500 with as many games as we play against the Cards and Astros, I'd be impressed. Don't we play each 10 more times?

[JC]

.500 from THIS payroll?

 

If I were GM, I'd clean house ASAP. Manager, about half the roster (or more), coaches, you name it. And that's just to try to save my OWN job.

 

No kidding. This is really an embarrassment. Three different losing streaks of 6 games or more? Four games under .500 on 8/9? Hendry is lucky if his own neck isn't on the block. I would like to see some urgency in repairing this mess. Start by shutting Wood down and getting him to surgery.

 

At this point, its not pessimism to admit that the Cubs aren't going to the playoffs--its realism. Espousing faith that they can turn it around at this point just closing your eyes to the product in the dugout. For the good of the organization, Hendry has to start focusing on 2006. That means, assessing your young players at the ML level and giving them the experience that will help them come spring training. Lets not relive the sins of Bruce Kimm and the McGriff/Choi debacle. Lets not package young guys in offseason trades because we weren't sure about their value at the ML level. Admit this team's failings and do something productive with it, even if that means (gasp!) getting rid deadweight like Hollandsworth, Macias, et al.

[Wheelimus]

No way, either legitimate run at the postseason or trade all the people who won't be here next year off for whatever you can get.

 

Why? Because if this team goes 82-80, they'll start to bring up "3 consecutive winning seasons for the first time since blah blah blah" and Dusty Baker will still be here next year.

 

Either show some heart and win 8 or 9 in a row RIGHT NOW, or fall off.

[E.J.]

Bring up the kids. It's time to see what sort of future we have. If Hendry can somehow trade guys like Lawton, Burnitz, Holla, and Maddux more power to him.

[nick23]

.500 from THIS payroll?

 

If I were GM, I'd clean house ASAP. Manager, about half the roster (or more), coaches, you name it. And that's just to try to save my OWN job.

I agree that a managerial change is probably in the best interest of the cubs. But this season is not Baker's fault. This current cubs team is just plain bad. We have top to bottom a below average pitching staff. A horrible defense and half the time no offense. We're a .500 team at best. I blame this season on Jim Hendry. It's not Baker's fault that we can't field, hit a cutoff man, execute a hit and run, bunt, hit a baseball, take a walk, throw a strike, get a big out in the late innings. Jim Hendry assembled this pathetic team so I blame him.

[frostwyrm]

If we do fall out of contention it will be interesting to see how the shortstop situation plays out. What happens to Nomar? I'm sure he wants an audition for 2006, but in a lost season it would make more sense to play Cedeno. Does Neifi get released, as he should be? How would Dusty feel about that?

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

.500 from THIS payroll?

 

If I were GM, I'd clean house ASAP. Manager, about half the roster (or more), coaches, you name it. And that's just to try to save my OWN job.

I agree that a managerial change is probably in the best interest of the cubs. But this season is not Baker's fault. This current cubs team is just plain bad. We have top to bottom a below average pitching staff. A horrible defense and half the time no offense. We're a .500 team at best. I blame this season on Jim Hendry. It's not Baker's fault that we can't field, hit a cutoff man, execute a hit and run, bunt, hit a baseball, take a walk, throw a strike, get a big out in the late innings. Jim Hendry assembled this pathetic team so I blame him.

 

Actually, a large portion of that can be attributed to Baker. Almost none of these players were having fundamental breakdowns this frequently when they were on other teams. Sure they had their mistakes, but nothing like this. It's now a team wide epidemic, and Dusty always finds ways to rationalize it in the papers. Yesterday's Sun Times said he's urging the Cubs to bring back the entire coaching staff for next year. If you ask me, I don't see one person there that's doing their job well enough to earn an extension.

 

The fundamentals are partially the coach's responsibility. He is allowing his players to become lazy because they know he'll defend them later. I know he doesn't coach baseball, but get me Bobby Knight immediately. He'll clean house in a week, and I guarantee you the pitchers will be covering first base.

[nick23]

.500 from THIS payroll?

 

If I were GM, I'd clean house ASAP. Manager, about half the roster (or more), coaches, you name it. And that's just to try to save my OWN job.

I agree that a managerial change is probably in the best interest of the cubs. But this season is not Baker's fault. This current cubs team is just plain bad. We have top to bottom a below average pitching staff. A horrible defense and half the time no offense. We're a .500 team at best. I blame this season on Jim Hendry. It's not Baker's fault that we can't field, hit a cutoff man, execute a hit and run, bunt, hit a baseball, take a walk, throw a strike, get a big out in the late innings. Jim Hendry assembled this pathetic team so I blame him.

 

Actually, a large portion of that can be attributed to Baker. Almost none of these players were having fundamental breakdowns this frequently when they were on other teams. Sure they had their mistakes, but nothing like this. It's now a team wide epidemic, and Dusty always finds ways to rationalize it in the papers. Yesterday's Sun Times said he's urging the Cubs to bring back the entire coaching staff for next year. If you ask me, I don't see one person there that's doing their job well enough to earn an extension.

 

The fundamentals are partially the coach's responsibility. He is allowing his players to become lazy because they know he'll defend them later. I know he doesn't coach baseball, but get me Bobby Knight immediately. He'll clean house in a week, and I guarantee you the pitchers will be covering first base.

I just don't see how you can say a large portion of that can be attributed to Baker. Lee is the only player on this team that is considered a good defensive player. Everyone else is average to below average defensively. That's not Baker's fault. It's not Baker's job to teach these guys fundamentals. Most of the regulars are into their 30's. If they don't know fundamental baseball by now their not going to ever know it. Do you honestly believe that it's somehow Baker's fault that we have pitchers that aren't covering first base? Is it also Baker's fault that Burnitz has been picked off 1st and 3rd base in the last 2 weeks? I'm not saying that Baker is not to blame at all this season. But I put most of the blame this season squarely on the shoulders of Hendry. These last 10 months he's been absolutely awful.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I just don't see how you can say a large portion of that can be attributed to Baker. Lee is the only player on this team that is considered a good defensive player. Everyone else is average to below average defensively. That's not Baker's fault. It's not Baker's job to teach these guys fundamentals. Most of the regulars are into their 30's. If they don't know fundamental baseball by now their not going to ever know it. Do you honestly believe that it's somehow Baker's fault that we have pitchers that aren't covering first base? Is it also Baker's fault that Burnitz has been picked off 1st and 3rd base in the last 2 weeks? I'm not saying that Baker is not to blame at all this season. But I put most of the blame this season squarely on the shoulders of Hendry. These last 10 months he's been absolutely awful.

 

You make a strong point, and then you put the blame on Hendry? Is it Hendry's fault the pitchers aren't covering first? It is Hendry's fault Burnitz has been picked off? He gets the players, it's Dusty's job to make them perform. If Dusty can't do that, it's Hendry's job to find someone who can make them perform.

 

And I don't believe it's all Dusty's fault. A lot of it has to do with the players. I know they are sub par defensively, but there's no excuse for laziness... and no excuse for a manager that allows laziness on his team. I guarantee you if LaRussa or Guillen were coaching the Cubs, we wouldn't have a problem with guys not covering first. Because it only would've had to happen once before someone was fined or benched.

[macuser1]

Have many of you seen this article in the Tribune today? I didn't realize there had been that many mangers. That's probably due to my own ignorance.

 

There have been a lot of managerial changes in the last 20 years, haven't there? Have any of the changes had an effect that lasted beyond one season?

 

Would firing Baker make any difference for next year? I just don't know. If it is true, as I have read here, that Baker's was Hendry's pick, and that Hendry is the real problem, then perhaps they should keep Baker until his contract runs out, because only then will the owners get embarrassed enough to get rid of both Baker and Hendry.

Edited August 9, 2005 by macuser1

[Notorious]

I just don't see how you can say a large portion of that can be attributed to Baker. Lee is the only player on this team that is considered a good defensive player. Everyone else is average to below average defensively. That's not Baker's fault. It's not Baker's job to teach these guys fundamentals. Most of the regulars are into their 30's. If they don't know fundamental baseball by now their not going to ever know it. Do you honestly believe that it's somehow Baker's fault that we have pitchers that aren't covering first base? Is it also Baker's fault that Burnitz has been picked off 1st and 3rd base in the last 2 weeks? I'm not saying that Baker is not to blame at all this season. But I put most of the blame this season squarely on the shoulders of Hendry. These last 10 months he's been absolutely awful.

 

You make a strong point, and then you put the blame on Hendry? Is it Hendry's fault the pitchers aren't covering first? It is Hendry's fault Burnitz has been picked off? He gets the players, it's Dusty's job to make them perform. If Dusty can't do that, it's Hendry's job to find someone who can make them perform.

 

And I don't believe it's all Dusty's fault. A lot of it has to do with the players. I know they are sub par defensively, but there's no excuse for laziness... and no excuse for a manager that allows laziness on his team. I guarantee you if LaRussa or Guillen were coaching the Cubs, we wouldn't have a problem with guys not covering first. Because it only would've had to happen once before someone was fined or benched.

 

That is why he put the blame on Hendry. Inaction. We jump on Dusty for his inaction with the players lack of fundamentals, when we should also jump on Hendry for his inaction with allowing Dusty to be an idiot.

[nick23]

I know it's been talked about before, but Hendry knows what type of manager Dusty Baker is. He knows Dusty's preferance for veterans over rookies. Hendry knew that we would have an outfield of Holla, Cpat, and Burnitz for a majority of the year. He obviously was ok with this. We all know that Dusty's philosophy is: if you're trying to win a division you go with the guys that have been there before. You go with experience over youth. And we beat Dusty to death because of his thinking. Guess what, Hendry has the same philosophy. Otherwise he wouldn't have resigned Hollandsworth, he wouldn't have signed Burnitz, and he wouldn't have traded for Lawton. I know I got off the topic there, but I just don't see how most of you think that Dusty Baker has to go immediately, meanwhile for some reason it seems like Hendry is getting a free pass.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm an equal opportunity hater. Both Dusty AND Hendry need to go in my opinion. But I think Dusty has done more to damage this team's chances of winning this year than Hendry has. Yeah, Hendry failed to get us a big bat in the offseason, but he was handicapped by the Sosa contract (which he had no part of to begin with). He did the best he could with the money he had. And Burnitz has not exactly been horrible for this team. He's been our most consistent outfielder by far. I don't see his signing as a huge black spot for the Cubs. I just think the team would be much better off without Dusty. He's the right manager... for the wrong team.

[YearofDaCubs]

.500 might be a stretch at this point and the season for us is definitiely over. We need to fire the entire coaching staff and maybe keep Speier. Release the bad players that wont be around next year to make room for the kids. This has been a dissapointing season all the way from the off-season. Even though I had a feeling we wouldnt make the postseason because of Hendry's inability to make moves I still thought we were better than a .500 team. One thing is for certain, Dusty HAS to go. He would not be managing right now if this was any other team. Even on the Royals he would be fired. He's gotta go.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Posted in the Stoney thread, but I thought it was relevant to what I was trying to say:

On Dusty Baker's demeanor and how you judge a manager:

"Dusty chewing on his toothpick has no bearing on what happens on the field. Every manager has a different style. ... What's a reflection of the manager is when you take a look at a baseball team and they can't execute rundowns and they can't hit cutoff men and they can't make relay throws and they can't lay down a bunt when they have to and they don't hit-and-run particularly well and they don't do all of the little things that it takes to win baseball games when you either don't throw a shutout or don't hit the ball out of the ballpark. That is a reflection of the manager more than what he's doing on the bench during the inning." - Steve Stone

[YearofDaCubs]

Posted in the Stoney thread, but I thought it was relevant to what I was trying to say:

On Dusty Baker's demeanor and how you judge a manager:

"Dusty chewing on his toothpick has no bearing on what happens on the field. Every manager has a different style. ... What's a reflection of the manager is when you take a look at a baseball team and they can't execute rundowns and they can't hit cutoff men and they can't make relay throws and they can't lay down a bunt when they have to and they don't hit-and-run particularly well and they don't do all of the little things that it takes to win baseball games when you either don't throw a shutout or don't hit the ball out of the ballpark. That is a reflection of the manager more than what he's doing on the bench during the inning." - Steve Stone

Logically, I see no reason to hold on to Baker anymore as the manager of the Cubs. He's been that bad.

[halplm]

There is NO reason to keep Dusty. Everything he is supposed to be good at, he has failed miserably with the Cubs. Everything he is supposed to be bad at, he's even worse than could be imagined.

 

Neifi Perez has over 400 ABs... that's beyond inexcusible.

[badger1679666666]

Yesterday's Sun Times said he's urging the Cubs to bring back the entire coaching staff for next year. If you ask me, I don't see one person there that's doing their job well enough to earn an extension.

 

 

Chris Speier.