Wouldn't It Be Nice to Have a Manager Like This

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Amazing to me that the person who questions the prevailing groupthink of this board gets scolded for his or her condescending tone, but stuff like this from the "regulars" seems to pass rather frequently without even a mumble.

Getting away from the Dusty topic for a moment, thank you. I was going to post a comment on the very subject, but felt it would come across as whining if I did it.

 

In my opinion, everyone sees what they want to see. My personal experience is that many people who go against the status quo or popular opinion regularly resort to attacking the poster rather than the argument(I am in no means suggesting anyone is this thread did or has done this, although it might be true, I don't know). Whether that is just the personality of the person, the frustration of being outmanned, or something else I don't know. Myself I try to avoid that sort of comment as much as possible, and I know that many of the people you would likely perceive as "regulars" or part of the "groupthink" strive to do the same. It's a thin line between saying "That's a really bad idea", and adding something sarcastic that crosses the line. I think it's unfair to characterize a group of people in the same vein, and furthermore, think it's more appropriate to contact a mod or admin if you have a problem with it. I'm pretty sure that's what they want and have asked anyone to do if they have a problem like that.

[frostwyrm]

Amazing to me that the person who questions the prevailing groupthink of this board gets scolded for his or her condescending tone, but stuff like this from the "regulars" seems to pass rather frequently without even a mumble.

Getting away from the Dusty topic for a moment, thank you. I was going to post a comment on the very subject, but felt it would come across as whining if I did it.

 

So we're all guilty of groupthink here because we don't believe that before-and-after stats prove that Dusty helped Ramirez and Lee? Groupthink is NOT why we don't believe it, the reason we don't believe it is because it's a dumb idea. If you want a message board full of dumb ideas go to Cubs.com.

[umpunk]

So we're all guilty of groupthink here because we don't believe that before-and-after stats prove that Dusty helped Ramirez and Lee? Groupthink is NOT why we don't believe it, the reason we don't believe it is because it's a dumb idea. If you want a message board full of dumb ideas go to Cubs.com.

So many issues, don't even know where to begin:

 

1 - Really, really convenient of somebody to "ignore" stats when they go against their opinion.

 

2 - You don't even realize it, but you are proving my point. Lee and Ramirez are great players and they probably would have been great players whomever was there manager. The same way Choi, Hill, Cruz, Brandon Harris, or any other younger kid this board screamed at Dusty about to play who turned out to be awful. They are probably just bad players. Dusty doesn't "ruin" anybody, the same way he doesn't "create" superstars. If they had talent, they would have shown it someplace else by now.

 

3 - Don't know about anybody esle, but last part of that post seemed real close to a personal attact....

[ZMovieman]

I don't know if anyone else caught this, but Kruk was on ESPN News praising Cox's handling of rookies. He cited Cox's handling of Furcal I believe and said that Cox just lets the rookies play. He said that the "one week to adjust" on the bench only develops rust. For once, Kruk's right (even if the topic is a no brainer). Cox has faith in the players and Baker doesn't. That seems to be the crux of the issue.

[gus_dog]

So we're all guilty of groupthink here because we don't believe that before-and-after stats prove that Dusty helped Ramirez and Lee? Groupthink is NOT why we don't believe it, the reason we don't believe it is because it's a dumb idea. If you want a message board full of dumb ideas go to Cubs.com.

 

:shock: :shock: :shock: :!:

[dalgreen]

Let me begin with my usual statement: Managers get too much credit and too much blame. Dusty has many, many faults (as do other managers), but to be fair to him, after the 2003 season he said that they would work with Ramirez's defense and he will get better. I think Ramirez has gotten a lot better defensively. Prior to the 2005 campaign, he said he wanted Lee to start off hot (and Lee has said this) and he gave him more at-bats during spring training and he's having an unbelievable year. But they both had talent before Dusty got to them.

[1908]

Amazing to me that the person who questions the prevailing groupthink of this board gets scolded for his or her condescending tone, but stuff like this from the "regulars" seems to pass rather frequently without even a mumble.

All but calling people hypocrites and whiners is more insulting than questioning, and I never said anything about being condescending. Everyone is free to have their own opinions. I think there are much better ways to defend your position than labeling a majority view "groupthink" and spouting off conspiracy theories, but that's just me.

[1908]

So we're all guilty of groupthink here because we don't believe that before-and-after stats prove that Dusty helped Ramirez and Lee? Groupthink is NOT why we don't believe it, the reason we don't believe it is because it's a dumb idea. If you want a message board full of dumb ideas go to Cubs.com.

Don't know about anybody esle, but last part of that post seemed real close to a personal attact....

There's a fine line between calling a person stupid and calling an idea stupid, but that's where we draw it. I do think everyone should take a step back before things get out of hand in this thread, though.

[Elrhino]

If you can't "prove" that Dusty helped Ramirez and Lee, then consequently you really can't "prove" that he ruined anyone either.

 

I think its somewhat revisionist history to claim that its always been a foregone conclusion that Aramis would be an All Star caliber player or Derek Lee would be a Superstar caliber player.

 

In fact, I remember some pretty strong and vocal opinions against both players ever being either when the Cubs aquired them in trade.

Edited July 12, 2005 by Elrhino

[Elrhino]

Everyone is free to have their own opinions. I think there are much better ways to defend your position than labeling a majority view "groupthink" and spouting off conspiracy theories, but that's just me.

 

For the sake of encouraging different viewpoints and new voices, I think there are more mature ways to express disagreement than calling another's ideas "stupid", but that's just me.

[1908]

Everyone is free to have their own opinions. I think there are much better ways to defend your position than labeling a majority view "groupthink" and spouting off conspiracy theories, but that's just me.

 

For the sake of encouraging different viewpoints and new voices, I think there are more mature ways to express disagreement than calling another's ideas "stupid", but that's just me.

Not just you, but it still doesn't rise to the level of a personal attack.