NFL Offseason

[David]

lol

 

I agree, it’s funny that people think the Cleveland Indians or Atlanta Braves team names offend anything approaching a majority of Native Americans.

 

Why should it be ok for it to offend any significant number of people?

 

What good reason is there for those being the team mascots other than, "That's the way it's always been?"

 

What's the argument against changing the names so that even a minority of people aren't offended? Who does it hurt to change a stupid team mascot?

[OleMissCub]

lol

 

I agree, it’s funny that people think the Cleveland Indians or Atlanta Braves team names offend anything approaching a majority of Native Americans.

 

No, it’s funny that you continue to defend the use of an ethnic group as a team mascot

 

So just to be clear, since we all agree that Redskins needs to go, you’re only referring to the Cleveland Indians, right?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

hey maybe not a great idea to play coy semantical games to get people to guess your opinion and then argue with the parts they don’t guess right

[OleMissCub]

hey maybe not a great idea to play coy semantical games to get people to guess your opinion and then argue with the parts they don’t guess right

 

lol the leap it took you to get there. yes I have some master strategy and I'm playing coy semantical games with Derwood.

 

I'm just wondering if he's only concerned with Indians since that represents an ethnic group or does his concern extend to the Braves.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

exactly what I mean, you’re so afraid to say ‘they shouldn’t have to change the Braves’ even though that’s clearly what you’re alluding to that you have to play 20 questions around the definition of an ‘ethnic group’, or do an ‘I know you are but what am I’ dance w/ imb

[imb]

The concept of a white southerners deciding arbitrarily what percentage of native Americans can get offended by something before its significant is amazing. I can’t imagine the thought process that led to not only thinking that but expressing it

[OleMissCub]

The concept of a white southerners deciding arbitrarily what percentage of native Americans can get offended by something before its significant is amazing. I can’t imagine the thought process that led to not only thinking that but expressing it

 

My wife was literally born on a reservation. My child is a quarter Choctaw Indian. I have a legal office on an actual reservation. I have gone to Washington DC to lobby for increased federal funding for them on multiple occasions as a legal liaison for them. Because of my ancestry I'm technically a member of the Tribe myself although I'd never claim to be one (see: Elizabeth Warren). So perhaps I have some insight that goes beyond whatever a typical "white southerner" has on this particular issue.

 

I can't speak for Native Americans in other parts of the country so perhaps I shouldn't have opined on what their opinions might be, but the ones I know (my clients and, ya know, my family) really don't care. They are either indifferent to it or actually support their existence given the amount of Braves gear, in particular, I see on the reservation. Again, this isn't about a legitimate racial slur like Redskins or bucktoothed red-faced cartoons or about having white guys on the 50 yard line wearing an Indian Chief costume ala Zach Morris. Those things need to go. I'm talking about team names like the Braves, Chiefs, and Warriors and tribal names as mascots. In my experience with the Tribe over the past 10 years they don't seem to be bothered at all by that sort of stuff and certainly don't need woke white people being offended for them.

[OleMissCub]

exactly what I mean, you’re so afraid to say ‘they shouldn’t have to change the Braves’ even though that’s clearly what you’re alluding to

 

lol wut? I've already said that I think it's silly that some people want to change Braves.

 

Changing the Indians and Braves seems silly.

[imb]

having a native son doesnt give you the ability to decide how many offended people count as significant. you just black friended us

[17 Seconds]

yes i have a problem with gay people, but how can i be homophobic if my son is gay?

[OleMissCub]

having a native son doesnt give you the ability to decide how many offended people count as significant. you just black friended us

 

It's a daughter and I'm sure it sounds like I'm "blackfriending" you, but considering that I literally spend several days a month on a freaking Indian reservation and spend time in DC lobbying for them and they are literally my family, I think I've earned the right, as a "white southerner", to at least relay to you an educated opinion on the issue. I'm sorry if that opinion doesn't jive with what you want to be true, but it's an honest observation. I don't have some stake in this. I don't own a sports team that is going to have deal with this. I don't support any teams with Indian names. I don't have some hidden agenda here. If I observed that many of them were hurt or outraged by the Atlanta Braves or whatever then I'd have no reason to NOT tell you guys about it.

 

As far as how many people have to be offended for something to need to be changed, I have no idea. If that percentage lobbies successfully enough to get something changed, then more power to them.

[imb]

Look I married an indian, I “earned the right” to quote flawed studies and determine that native Americans just aren’t offended by this.

[OleMissCub]

Look I married an indian, I “earned the right” to quote flawed studies and determine that native Americans just aren’t offended by this.

 

aii'napa bushul

[imb]

How exactly do you think this is playing? You know a couple Choctaw words, congrats. Go back and read how you’ve talked about native Americans, this group of people you’ve lowered yourself to work on behalf of a few times so now you get to speak for them. Good for you dances with wolves.

[OleMissCub]

How exactly do you think this is playing? You know a couple Choctaw words, congrats. Go back and read how you’ve talked about native Americans, this group of people you’ve lowered yourself to work on behalf of a few times so now you get to speak for them. Good for you dances with wolves.

 

I've lowered myself to work for them? How dare you.

[imb]

How exactly do you think this is playing? You know a couple Choctaw words, congrats. Go back and read how you’ve talked about native Americans, this group of people you’ve lowered yourself to work on behalf of a few times so now you get to speak for them. Good for you dances with wolves.

 

I've lowered myself to work for them? How dare you.

 

Lol I’m not the one claiming some secret knowledge of this mystical apparently homogenous group of people because my wife is Choctaw and “I actually try to help them ok.” But sure I crossed a line, right.

 

Imagine giving us your in depth thoughts on black lives matter and then defending yourself by saying umm my wife is black ok. Want me to prove it? “For shizzle.”

[OleMissCub]

How exactly do you think this is playing? You know a couple Choctaw words, congrats. Go back and read how you’ve talked about native Americans, this group of people you’ve lowered yourself to work on behalf of a few times so now you get to speak for them. Good for you dances with wolves.

 

I've lowered myself to work for them? How dare you.

 

Lol I’m not the one claiming some secret knowledge of this mystical apparently homogenous group of people because my wife is Choctaw and “I actually try to help them ok.” But sure I crossed a line, right.

 

Imagine giving us your in depth thoughts on black lives matter and then defending yourself by saying umm my wife is black ok. Want me to prove it? “For shizzle.”

 

I told you to suck a dick, not "fo shizzle", fwiw.

 

What's troubling to me is your intellectual dishonesty about this. I'm almost 100% certain that if I were to make the claim that my extensive personal interactions with NA's leads me to conclude that most of them want all of these things gone, then I doubt I'd have gotten the same kickback from you or anyone else. I'm also amused, especially coming from a journalist, how merely stating an opinion derived from personal observation is somehow a claim of "secret knowledge". That's really the ultimate issue here and it's quite transparent: you ultimately disagree with my assertion so you have to attempt to discredit it by attacking the legitimacy of how that observation was gained.

[imb]

 

I've lowered myself to work for them? How dare you.

 

Lol I’m not the one claiming some secret knowledge of this mystical apparently homogenous group of people because my wife is Choctaw and “I actually try to help them ok.” But sure I crossed a line, right.

 

Imagine giving us your in depth thoughts on black lives matter and then defending yourself by saying umm my wife is black ok. Want me to prove it? “For shizzle.”

 

I told you to suck a dick, not "fo shizzle", fwiw.

 

What's troubling to me is your intellectual dishonesty about this. I'm almost 100% certain that if I were to make the claim that my extensive personal interactions with NA's leads me to conclude that most of them want all of these things gone, then I doubt I'd have gotten the same kickback from you or anyone else. I'm also amused, especially coming from a journalist, how merely stating an opinion derived from personal observation is somehow a claim of "secret knowledge". That's really the ultimate issue here and it's quite transparent: you ultimately disagree with my assertion so you have to attempt to discredit it by attacking the legitimacy of how that observation was gained.

 

No. We actually happen to at least partially agree on a good deal here. If you were going to rank them in terms of severity, the football team's name is the worst, and the others fall somewhere underneath.

 

The difference, the true "ultimate issue," is that I don't deign to speak on behalf of a group of people of which I am not a part. You do. Is Braves offensive? I don't know. Is Indians offensive? The logo certainly is. I don't know about the name. If someone told me it was offensive to them, I would nod and take their word for it. Who am I to choose what portion of a population must be offended before it counts as "significant." But you have a native wife and a native son so you have gained insight into this arcane knowledge.

 

Im sure you think I'm just being a dick here, but I'm not. The world is full of men like you. Men who work with a minority population, feel good about themselves for doing it, and then imagine it imbues them with some deeper knowledge. All the hallmarks are there. the "90 percent study" that everyone who read beyond the headline knows is phony, and was written entirely for men who already have their minds made up on the subject. The native wife who has "earned" you the right to speak for the tribes. Speaking of them as one homogenous group of people with one single mindset. "Well my father in law in choctaw so I think I would know how native americans feel about this." You do not.

[OleMissCub]

Im sure you think I'm just being a dick here, but I'm not. The world is full of men like you. Men who work with a minority population, feel good about themselves for doing it, and then imagine it imbues them with some deeper knowledge. All the hallmarks are there. the "90 percent study" that everyone who read beyond the headline knows is phony, and was written entirely for men who already have their minds made up on the subject. The native wife who has "earned" you the right to speak for the tribes. Speaking of them as one homogenous group of people with one single mindset. "Well my father in law in choctaw so I think I would know how native americans feel about this." You do not.

 

lol what a bunch of [expletive]. I said I've earned the right to form an educated opinion on the issue, I never said I earned the right to speak for them.

 

Also, your brain is really going to some dark places with regards to why I do things for people. I'd prefer you keep your own racist projections to yourself. Using terms like "mystical homogeneous group", even in jest to mock my assertion, and calling me "dances with wolves", belies something disturbing deep within you.

[imb]

You’ve attempted to legitimize your ability to determine what is and isn’t offensive to native Americans because your wife is native. You said you understand this issue more than most because you “worked for them.” You now understand the inner workings of all tribes! Congrats! You’ve advanced to the highest level. You even know a curse word. Do you have a dreamcatcher too?

 

I don’t know why you do things for people. I do know that it’s inappropriate to determine you can judge for a disparate group of people what they truly think on a subject as important as racism merely because you tried to help a couple times.

[OleMissCub]

because you tried to help a couple times.

 

It's interesting how you claim that you aren't just trying to be a jerk, but you really are. Otherwise you wouldn't continue to insult me and my efforts. That's about the third time that you claim that I've just "tried to help" people a few times. I've personally completed over 300 felony expungements. An insertion I got into a bill five years ago has made over 20,000 Mississippians eligible for expungements of their felonies. I assisted in writing and passing the largest criminal justice reform bill in our state's history just this past legislative session. Several thousand inmates will be paroled and will be returning to their families as part of it. As far as the tribe goes, last year we were able to secure over $350,000 from the federal government to improve public safety and for domestic violence prevention for the tribe. My actual job with the tribe is as a legal liaison between the state and federal correctional agencies and the Ittikana Ikbi 'Peacemaker' Court, which is the tribal justice system. Currently we're trying to get more Covid-19 tests administered on the reservation but Trump's people don't seem to want to help. It's been a real disaster. They have the highest fatality rate of any ethnic group. The Mississippi Band has had over 60 deaths so far.

 

https://www.meridianstar.com/news/local_news/mississippi-band-of-choctaw-indians-awarded-in-public-safety-funding/article_b562d9ef-0697-5218-8222-d7a4fda6fdab.html

 

I could be making exponentially more money than I do now if I was working in some office generating paper for the sole purpose of making rich people even richer like many attorneys out there. I do what I do because I actually want to make the world I inhabit a better place and thankfully I've been somewhat successful at it. It's not some side gig I have that makes me feel smug about myself. I don't believe in an afterlife so this isn't about some faux-righteousness either. That's not the purpose at all. It's a genuine effort to improve people's lives. I know that for every expungement I write and get signed by a judge that person will now be able to get a better job and the lives of their children will improve, etc. It's the same idea when I do Post Conviction Relief work with the Parole Board.

 

So it's discouraging that you feel to need to mock someone's efforts because they phrased something poorly or have an opinion that you think is improper. Mock me for "blackfriending you" or for being a dumb white southerner or whatever else, but don't boil my life's work down to "you've tried help a couple of times". That's an undeserved insult.

[imb]

You’re using your resume to tokenize a minority population and it’s somehow only the second grossest thing you’ve done tonight next to tokenizing your own wife. Like somehow we thought your opinions were [expletive] but woah hold up, he married one? Damn never mind.

[OleMissCub]

You’re using your resume to tokenize a minority population and it’s somehow only the second grossest thing you’ve done tonight next to tokenizing your own wife. Like somehow we thought your opinions were [expletive] but woah hold up, he married one? Damn never mind.

 

you’re such a bigot. I feel sorry for you. Go project your own racism onto someone else.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

How exactly do you think this is playing? You know a couple Choctaw words, congrats. Go back and read how you’ve talked about native Americans, this group of people you’ve lowered yourself to work on behalf of a few times so now you get to speak for them. Good for you dances with wolves.

 

I've lowered myself to work for them? How dare you.

 

Lol I’m not the one claiming some secret knowledge of this mystical apparently homogenous group of people because my wife is Choctaw and “I actually try to help them ok.” But sure I crossed a line, right.

 

Imagine giving us your in depth thoughts on black lives matter and then defending yourself by saying umm my wife is black ok. Want me to prove it? “For shizzle.”

What do you think you are doing here? It's one thing to call someone out for using personal experience or relation to argue from authority, but yeah, the "lowering yourself" comment was straight garbage, and begs an apology.

[imb]

“I have an office on an actual reservation.”